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Child maintenance questions

28 posts & 18 voices | Started 2 years ago by gravitysucks | Latest reply from b r

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gravitysucks - Member

Ok bit of a drab one i'm afraid... things have been far from rosey at Gravitysucksville of late and its getting to the point where I'm starting to think that a split could be on the horizon.

This is my no means a certainty or a cop out as I couldn't think of anything worse than not living in the house my two young children grow up in. Things are getting beyond reasonable though and although this is the last thing I would ever want but I have to think of the enviroment my children are growing up in.

All I want is for my partner and I to be happy as a family but if the worst happens I also want to be at least slightly prepared for the kids sake at least.

So basically what I need to know is wher I will stand financially. IF the worst did happen I would of course support my children but also have to be realistic about having to put a roof over my head and think about the type of roof that could be to ensure the Kids would be able to stay with me at least some of the time.

My Lil girl is 3 in April and my boy is just 15 months. If anyone is in or has been in a similar situation I would appreciate any advice you can give me. If anyone knows how much i'd be likely to be paying in support on a monthly basis that would be really helpful.

Thanks for your help guys and girls.....

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

20 % of net salary via CSA - varies depending on access and nights sleeps over

You can come to a personal arrangement though and do not need to use CSA so whatever the two of you agree.
If wife is on benefits she can only get forst 20 so no point paying more than that [officially anyway]
You also split assets 50/50 the old days of wife getting house etc are long gone. This may include your pension to date

Avoid solicitors as about £150 + VAT minimum and they provoke discontent as it makes them wealthy.
csa calculation here
https://secureonline.dwp.gov.uk/csa/v2/en/calculate-maintenance.asp

Chin up fellow me and ex get on much better now as we can enjoy each others company for about 10 mins and also remind each other why we annoy each other. Kids seem fine as well [4 and 3]

Posted 2 years ago #
gravitysucks - Member

Junkyard is that 20% per child?

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

no 20 % for both 15% for one and 5 % for each after that capped at something ... I have two kids hence I know amount for two
Best toi just agree to that or negotiate woth partner if you cannot afford that much. This then gets reduced based on number of NIGHTS / SLEEPOVERS they spend with you.
Hence best to use actuall calculator which will give you the correct amount. View this as maximum or a fia amount dependin gon point of view. I pay this amount as it ios what a court would make me anyway and avoids CSA being involved so room for negotiation if I am skint etc.

WIfe is the liable for ALL child costs including clothing etc and should provide these to you on visits etc. Large purchases by negotiation

Posted 2 years ago #
woffle - Member

have to say that seems like nowhere near where I thought it would be - imagined it'd be much higher.

how odd.

Posted 2 years ago #
grievoustim - Member

the CSA website has a calulator you can use. It is based on your earnings vs how many nights a year your kids will be sleeping at your place.

I am splitting with my wife - and used this to work outv what I will pay. Its useful because you can give a fair amount, without having to actually go through the CSA which I hear is best avoided due to their incompetence

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

Given housing costs if it was any higher many many people would be better off on benefits. It is propbably a close call for those on below 20k at a guess.
THE LINK ABOVE IS FOR CSA CALCULATOR

CSA CALCULATOR

Posted 2 years ago #
sofatester - Member

DO NOT GO THROUGH THE CSA

I repeat - DO NOT GO THROUGH THE CSA

If possible arrange something with the Mother. They are an incompetent bureaucratic machine, once they have so much as your name there is NO escape. You will have payments missed/forgotten and then clamed for later. You will get threatening letters, aggressive phone calls. You WILL be treated as the bad guy.

Ignore this warning at your peril

If it really does go the splitting up/moving out route, try and talk and come to some agreement with her. It will work out far better for everyone in the long term.

Good luck, it's never going to be fun.

Keep your head up and ride your bike. It helps.

Posted 2 years ago #
b r - Member

Agree on not using the CSA.

We split 14 years ago when the kids were very little, and have just worked it out between ourselves. Overall she/they have got everything they needed, but I don't feel like I've been screwed over.

Also if you are a high earner (or become one), why suddenly does she need/deserve that extra cash, if what you were giving was good already.

One thing to note is when/if you split divide assets 50/50, otherwise you could have a situation (like a friend of mine that wouldn't listen to advice) where you, for example, give your wife the house so she and the kids can live in it, and then your ex gets the CSA involved and they pay no attention to the agreement, whatsoever. So no house, cash gone and still paying the same as if nothing had been given.

Or where the/a boyfriend moves in and in a couple of years all the equity has gone, and your kids are facing eviction...

Posted 2 years ago #
flip - Member

Total nightmare i'm afraid, DON'T USE CSA, i've been through it. We came to a private arrangement about money and it's worked out ok, even better now i've gone prematurely retired i pay her only half as much as i did.

BUT please factor in here, her reaction to the said split, it won't be easy. My ex was ok till she found out i'd got another girlfriend (3 mths after split) it went mental.

You never know anyone till you divorce them

Posted 2 years ago #
porterclough - Member

Try to get an amicable agreement and avoid the CSA at all costs. It would be worth offering slightly over their calculator figure just to not have to deal with them.

For example, they spent nearly a year threatening me with court proceedings to get 2 years back maintainence when I had already paid the money to my ex directly - all because she signed on briefly between jobs. Basically they wanted me to stop paying her and start paying them - even though that would have made her worse off. They are useless tards of the highest quality.

Edit: I was actually paying more direct to my ex than CSA said I should be, still didn't stop them coming after me. Unbeleivable.

Posted 2 years ago #
action dan - Member

You say partner instead of wife so I'm assuming your not married, if this is the case then you need to make sure you have joint parental responsibility (this is easy to get)because if the your situation gets sticky she could refuse access to children. Use the CSA calculator as a guide but do not involve them and try to come to a reasonable solution, good luck!

Posted 2 years ago #
retro83 - Member

Consider going to a family mediation service. My mother works for essex mediation, she says they get good results.

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

if you are named on birth certificate you have parental responsibility iirc

Posted 2 years ago #
DaRC_L - Member

if your name is on the birth certificate then you have parental responsibility (AFAIK - the 2nd Mrs DaRC_L did family law but there's no money in it).

Avoid CSA and lawyers - mediation if you can. For 2 kids it does work out at 20% assuming you have them for >= 52 nights per year but <= 104 nights per year.

Ex-s will go mental as soon as you find someone else, doubly so if they have kids (or you make new ones).
If (sometime in the future) you gain any more dependants (i.e. kids that live in the house with you) your repayment goes down by an amount (5% I think).

Posted 2 years ago #
woffle - Member

if you are named on birth certificate you have parental responsibility iirc

I think this only came into affect relatively recently...

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

we are all wrong

A father, however, has this responsibility only if he is married to the mother when the child is born or has acquired legal responsibility for his child through one of these three routes:

•(from 1 December 2003) by jointly registering the birth of the child with the mother
•by a parental responsibility agreement with the mother
•by a parental responsibility order, made by a court

more here
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/ParentsRights/DG_4002954

yet more sexism in divorce /children laws

Posted 2 years ago #
iDave - Member

CSA are at best useless phucktards, at worst spiteful phucktards

they have lied blatantly to me, told my ex-wife details of my tax returns, and 'lost' lots of correspondence and records of meetings.

they seem to always side with the mother/primary carer and sod the kids

they have put ideas into my ex's head and despite all the evidence of my income, have encouraged her to pursue through them rather than rely on the sound agreement we had reached together without involving the courts

Posted 2 years ago #
barnsleymitch - Member

Sadly, I have to agree with a number of the above posters. The CSA are a set of unfeeling, uncaring bastards (sorry for not editing that, just thinking about them brings back bad memories), who seem to get a kick out of screwing people over. I got divorced from my first wife about twenty years ago, and although things werent easy, we managed to remain on speaking terms for the sake of the kids (they were four and six at the time). However, it didnt take long for my ex and her new husband (my oldest friend, oddly enough) to come up with the bright idea of involving the CSA, and from then on, my life went to absolute s**t. They insisted on claiming a set amount each month (pretty sure it was about 40 % of my income, which as a student nurse at the time, was pretty grim). They (the CSA) made it perfectly clear that they wouldnt take any of my existing outgoings into consideration, and were insistent to the point of harrassment that my payments to them took priority over everything else. When I eventually remarried, they also tried going after my new wife, stating that a recalculation of my payments would have to include her income. Ironically, my ex and her other half were both on benefits, so involving the CSA made no difference at all to them. Things got a little easier after a few years, but I recall ending up on the verge of tears everytime I had to have any form of contact with the CSA, to the point where I was more or less suicidal. Avoid them like the plague, try and do the right thing for your kids (no matter what has gone on between you and your partner, they have to be your priority), and stay strong - it does get easier, in spite of how you may be feeling at the moment.

Posted 2 years ago #
Midnighthour - Member

If you go to a Citizens Advice Beureau they will be discreet (you do not have to give your name, though they will ask, they are fine if you dont want to say who you are) and everything you say is confidential. Take your financial details with you, like yearly pay, rent, mortage payments anything on HP etc. They will calculate with you how much the CSA will expect you to pay if the CSA are called in by either you or your partner. They will also give you leaflets to take away and read. And advise you on where you stand, what govenment benefits your or your family can claim if you split etc.

I went on a friends behalf once as they could not cope with going themselves. The staff were very helpful and kind.

I must admit I was horrified at just how much little the CSA thinks is a reasonable amout for the non custodial parent to live on as at the time (a few years back) it was all done on percentages. So apparently it costs say, £200 a month to cloth and house a one child if the parent was poor, but it could be £1000 a month to keep another one, if the parent is better off. It seemed disproportionate, as there is only so much food, clothing and shelter anyone needs for a good quality of living. I did wonder what happened to the money not used up every month. Does it go in a fund for the kid when its adult? Or does the custodial parent get to live it up? It did not look a very reasonable system.

Posted 2 years ago #
MoreCashThanDash - Member

Just tried that calculator - if I didn't actually love my wife and kids I'd be quids in!

Posted 2 years ago #
gravitysucks - Member

Cheers for the info peeps. I'm actually amazed at the 20%. For some reason I expected it to be around the 40 - 50% figure.
Hopefully not a route I end up going down but if the worst comes to it at least I know theres light at the end of the tunnel.

Can't imagine not living with my kids though, after a hash growing up I swore i'd never end up down that path but I guess you never know what hand life's gonna deal ya. Not sure how I'd cope but I've got to do whats best for the kids. Seriously don't know how people manage to live without their kids. It seems an impossible situation to be in. Kinda makes you want to just put up with all the 5hit and be unhappy just to be with your kids and see them grow up, I kinda know thats not the right answer though....

Posted 2 years ago #
ziggy - Member

If you soon to be ex partner doesn't work then the CSA automatically get involved, sadly you have no choice in that. When your ex partner tries to claim income support she WILL be asked your details. This is pretty much what happened to me, they mugged me even though I came to an agreement with my ex.

The system is set to make fathers and not tax payers pay for single parents, also it is only based on your salary, they cannot include bonus, dividend or irregular payments. Hence I now get minimum wage with alot of bonuses and dividends

Posted 2 years ago #
b r - Member

The system is set to make fathers and not tax payers pay for single parents

Yep, that was exactly how the politicians envisaged it - but as usual it wasn't the feckless who get caught, but the law-abiding.

Posted 2 years ago #
ziggy - Member

Yeah pretty much, decent fathers would happily (as I do) pay for the upkeep of theri children, apparently it's something like 68p per every pound is lost in administration costs. Another Labour jobs scam!

Posted 2 years ago #
cassin - Member

Just a little warning. My x wife and I settled up on a private arrangement while she filled in the paperwork for the CSA without me knowing. 2 years later I find out. Still owed the money 6 years later.

Posted 2 years ago #
notlocal - Member

The wife has been paying over £300 per month for the last 4 years. She complied totally with the CSA as she didn't want her daughter to suffer after her deciding to live with her waster Dad. Daughter moved back in Jan after 4 yrs of seeing her Dad buy 2 motorbikes, and countless bangers . She never had new clothes, other than stuff we bought, and the kitchen cupboards were spartan to say the least.
The wife still has money deducted at source until he is kind enough to inform the csa his daughter no longer lives with him. Apparently they cannot legally stop paying him. Same goes for child benefit. C**k S*****g A*******s the lot of them.

Posted 2 years ago #
b r - Member

Yeah pretty much, decent fathers would happily (as I do) pay for the upkeep of theri children, apparently it's something like 68p per every pound is lost in administration costs. Another Labour jobs scam!

Not all Labours fault, as originally Mrs T set it up - and it was just as complicated. In a previous life I programmed the 'rules' it into a payroll system.

Posted 2 years ago #

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