Maybe they pace themselves more? Sort of *SFB-censored* for a marathon rather than gorging themselves a la Catholic?
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Catholic Church
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Posted 3 years ago #
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By the sound of it hora the people in question seemed to be in for the long haul, not a one night binge.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I think the use of the word 'fiddling' is inappropriate in this context
Posted 3 years ago # -
But it's ok, they're banning gays and praying lots
Pope Benedict XVI has instructed Roman Catholics to pray “in perpetuity” to cleanse the Church of paedophile clergy. All dioceses, parishes, monasteries, convents and seminaries will be expected to organise continuous daily prayers to express penitence and to purify the clergy.
Vatican officials said that every parish or institution should designate a person or group each day to conduct continuous prayers for the Church to rid itself of the scandal of sexual abuse by clergy. Alternatively, churches in the same diocese could share the duty. Prayer would take place in one parish for 24 hours, then move to another.
Vatican watchers said that there was no known precedent for global prayer on a specific issue of this kind. There are about one billion Roman Catholics worldwide.
The instruction was sent to bishops by Cardinal Cláudio Hummes of Brazil, head of the Vatican Congregation for the Clergy. He told L’Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, that he was acting in the Pope’s name. The Pope wanted Catholics to pray for the “mercy of God for the victims of the grave situations caused by the moral and sexual conduct of a very small part of the clergy”, he said.
Officials said that the prayers were in addition to support for legal action against paedophile priests by their victims and a code adopted two years ago by the Vatican to try to ensure that men “with deep-seated homosexual tendencies” do not enter seminaries to train for the priesthood.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3142511.ece
Posted 3 years ago # -
Perhaps the celibate lifestyle isn't all its cracked up to be.....
Posted 3 years ago # -
and a code adopted two years ago by the Vatican to try to ensure that men “with deep-seated homosexual tendencies” do not enter seminaries to train for the priesthood
which is irrelevant to child abuse
so if I read that right their main way of tackling the problem is through non-stop prayer ? This goes to why I suggested the church was illequipped for self investigation....
Posted 3 years ago # -
The Pope wanted Catholics to pray for the “mercy of God for the victims of the grave situations caused by the moral and sexual conduct of a very small part of the clergy”, he said.
SO ONE IN 25 IS A VERY SMALL PART OF THE CLERGY..... OH RIGHT SILLY OLD ME AND THERE WAS ME THINKING IT WAS SOMETHING SERIOUS!!!
“with deep-seated homosexual tendencies” ................which is irrelevant to child abuse
Oh right, so the buggery of boys isn't an issue then? Mind you I quite agree that homosexuality doesn't make you beat kids, or starve them so they could quite reasonably throw the noose a tad further. In fact I reckon the very fact that you want to be a priest/nun/monk should automatically disqualify you from being one.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Oh right, so the buggery of boys isn't an issue then?
no, but I think it's incorrect to suggest gays are any more likely to abuse boys than heterosexuals are to abuse girls
Posted 3 years ago # -
I stand open for correction, but I think you will find that the majority of the sexual abuse is male on male....... besides if they banned em all they'd run out of Church!
Posted 3 years ago # -
but I think you will find that the majority of the sexual abuse is male on male.
this raises 2 questions:
1) is it gay/bi/hetero on boy ? (ie distribution of sexuality of abusers)
2) is it because boys are less likely to report abuse ?I think you will find the new testament preaches plenty of violence also
the trouble is it's so boring I have to go on my memories from school 45 years ago
Posted 3 years ago # -
i think a big factor is that monks are in charge of boys and nuns in charge of girls
its all about opportunity
Posted 3 years ago # -
2) is it because boys are less likely to report abuse
People's sexuality is not defined by what they can get away with. If these creatures have sex with young boys, it's because they fancy young boys.
Posted 3 years ago # -
People's sexuality is not defined by what they can get away with.
I'm not sure if child abuse is always about sex as such - as with adult rape it may instead be about the exploitation of power and control, in which case what can be gotten away with is highly relevant
Posted 3 years ago # -
I'm not sure if child abuse is always about sex as such - as with adult rape it may instead be about the exploitation of power and control, in which case what can be gotten away with is highly relevant
But they're not going to have sex with boys if they're attracted to girls just because they can get away with it.
Posted 3 years ago # -
But they're not going to have sex with boys if they're attracted to girls just because they can get away with it.
but this is about objectification too, like I said I don't know that attraction matters
Posted 3 years ago # -
I am still amazed that the christian brothers have managed to get a court to rule that they cant be prosecuted as a result of this
wtf
is ireland still in the dark ages or something??
Posted 3 years ago # -
is ireland still in the dark ages or something??
I don't think we can single out Ireland in this. I expect most other countries have similar or worse cases, some possibly still covered up
Posted 3 years ago # -
There is a difference between disclosure and co-operation on one hand, and on self-investigation/regulation on the other. A bleeding obvious difference, in fact.
So you don't think the church should investigate whether there's been any claims of child abuse then ? Perhaps you think the church should just call the police in once a week to try and establish whether there's been any problems ?
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I suspect that when suspicion is first raised it's not because some child has suddenly blurted out "brother so-and-so shagged me up the ar5se last night". I get the impression that hints are dropped, and whispers heard. I don't expect the police to be called in and someone to be accused of being a paedophile on the merest suspicion that they perhaps spent too long cleaning the gush on a child's leg.
No one as far as I know, has called for 'self-regulation'. But the church always needs to investigate any suspicions it might have to establish whether there is a basis for the police to be called in. Bleeding obvious I would have thought.
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the thing is, they are in a position of trust and supposed to set a good example
Spot on SFB. Hence my particular disgust at paedophile priests. They don't deserve to breath air imo.
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I don't think we can single out Ireland in this. I expect most other countries have similar.....
Have you actually read any details of this news story ? Do you know about the kids being sent to industrial schools for things such as stealing a bar of chocolate ? Have you read about the cover-up by the eduction authorities ? You think similar things could have happened in the UK ? Do you understand the power of the church in Ireland ?
Posted 3 years ago # -
But the church always needs to investigate any suspicions it might have to establish whether there is a basis for the police to be called in. Bleeding obvious I would have thought.
except that they are far from disinterested, and you cannot expect people who know each other to be effective investigators,too much conflict of interest. The church might choose to setup an independent investigation branch, but Ratzinger seems to prefer to resort to prayer (as you might expect), and god (literally) knows how well that might work...
Have you actually read any details of this news story ?
No, my only interest in abuse is its prevention, but it seems to me stories of abuse in this country have been similarly harrowing.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Do you understand the power of the church in Ireland ?
There's a very harrowing film called The Magdalen Sisters which highlights the power of the church in Ireland and the very brutal and barbaric way that it was still operating in contemporary times. My mother was unfortunate enough to attend an Irish convent school and had some very disturbing tales to tell.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The church might choose to setup an independent investigation branch, but Ratzinger seems to prefer to resort to prayer (as you might expect), and god (literally) knows how well that might work...
I suspect it will have similar output (qualitatively) as the conference it underook to determine the fate of unbaptised children.
A wholesale intellectual waste of time and offensive in the extreme.Posted 3 years ago # -
Do you understand the power of the church in Ireland ?
Without being too patronising folks, some of you have no idea of the power that the Catholic church wielded in Ireland, even when I was a kid growing up, let alone a few decades before that when these industrial schools were being run. We're talking about a church who interfered in the running of the state from the very highest office to the lowest of local politics.
And it's worth remembering that quite a few of the entrants to the seminaries to become brothers would have been taken from these schools - maybe a particularly pious teenager, who had also suffered some kind of abuse, leading to cycles of the abused becoming abusers. Priests tended to come from "slightly" better off families and believe me, and here we go down the "power-of-the-church" road again, it was a huge honour for a family to have a priest in it's ranks. My aunt (dad's siter) was a nun until she left the convent in the seventies sometime...she had to move to New Zealand FFS! My uncle (dad's brother) was a catholic priest in the States until he left sometime in the eighties because he was sh4gging his housekeeper (well at least it was a woman his own age)....oh the shame that brought on my father's family. He's now some kind of other Lutheran thing...and is a nice enough chap, belief in fairies aside. It shows though that it was the pastoral side of his work that he enjoyed the most, but he also fancies a bit of lady-ass every so often.
A few people on here are mentioning "priests" quite a lot. And while there is no doubt that a number of priests have been involved in abuse across the world and in Ireland, these schools were primarily run by Christian Brothers and Sisters of Mercy (yeah, yeah, I know....). The Christian Brothers were founded in Ireland by Edmund Rice as a solution to the educational needs of the generally ignorant Irish, especially in the rural areas, and of course this was education by the stick most of the time and a nice pure catholic one at that. I'm not so sure about the Mercy Nuns but every convent that was a Mercy convent that I remember was also attached to a school. My sister went to a Gaelic boarding school run by Mercy and indeed, they were a bunch of nutcases. On the other hand, a great-aunt of mine was also in this order and she was thoroughly sound and always had great time for me. I used to have a blast with the nuns when I visited there as a child...but believe me, convents are strange places.
Christian Brothers are not priests and they're not quite monks either. They take a vow of chastity and poverty but cannot say Mass or forgive sins or do some of the other stuff that priests have special powers for. They live in a monastery but do not live as closed an existence as monks or friars. I tend to think the constant living around men and the chastity thing helped create some monsters who might have been normal enough otherwise but who knows...
A representative from the Department of Education would have to visit these schools on a regular basis to report back on how things were going. There is no doubt that lots of abuse was reported and never acted upon. All unforgiveable, but, and again, it's hard to explain, ordinary people were frightened to death to stand up to such a powerful institution. Priests could make or break peoples' careers, especially those in the civil service professions.
****, I'm rambling now again...
Posted 3 years ago # -
An organisation headed by a former Nazi (is it possible to be a 'former' nazi?)
An organisation who had the chance to warn many jewish peoples of their ensuing torment, and didn't.
An organisation who still tell people in africa not to bother with a rubber.
Religious groups have far too much power, these folks don't have to go through the same disclosure processes that we would have to do, to be in a position of responsiblity with kids.
Why are we surprised.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Grumm - that made me LOL. I don't have a source because I don't remember where I read it!
I don't expect the police to be called in and someone to be accused of being a paedophile on the merest suspicion that they perhaps spent too long cleaning the gush on a child's leg...But the church always needs to investigate any suspicions it might have to establish whether there is a basis for the police to be called in. Bleeding obvious I would have thought.
Actually, you're wrong. If there's a suspicion or allegation of child abuse, the appropriate step is to inform social services and/or the police, and to let them decide how to pursue the matter. You don't try to play Columbo and investigate it yourself. Investigations are not easy to conduct in the first place, doubly so where there's criminal or civil liability, and triply so when the (possible) victims are children.And that especially applies if you're an organisation that has actively covered up and facilitated child abuse in the past. Asking the Catholic Church to investigate claims of child abuse is like asking La Cosa Nostra to investigate claims of tax exasion.
Posted 3 years ago # -
by a former Nazi
I disagree strongly with that. He was in the Hitler Youth.
Posted 3 years ago # -
by a former Nazi
I disagree strongly with that. He was in the Hitler Youth.How about vicious right wing authoritarian then ? (before he was pope he was head of the Inquisition)
Posted 3 years ago # -
I see Paedophiles slightly above Nazi's in the grandscheme of things.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I see Paedophiles slightly above Nazi's in the grandscheme of things.
it's not exactly a popularity contest, though observation suggests Nazis prefer more organised, wholesale forms of abuse
Posted 3 years ago # -
Damn I missread the title of this post as Charlotte Church, I am SO dissapointed at the lack of 'celebrity' gossip....
Posted 3 years ago # -
Catholic Church = Totally and utterly discredited IMHO, and frankly that goes for most organised religions.
It is a testimony to the power that they wield that anyone anywhere actually has anything to do with this seedy corrupt anacronism. (NB: Refer to comments on the thread about our political system regarding William the Conqueror dishing out 25% of the country to the feckers. Same issue and its a total load of crap perpetuated by the Aristocracy and the Bourgeoisie to maintain the status quo.) Yes that is Marxist, and he was not wrong on this point.
Thats not the same as dishing individuals beliefs incidentally, I'm just dishing the club they belong to. I'm sure there are lots of great religious folk around, its when they get together the crap starts to happen.
Personally I think the Church should be dealt with in a secular fashion through the normal process of law, and pursued relentlessly. I'd put the entire organisation on the Sex Offenders register for starters.
THERE IS NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER FOR THIS SORT OF INSTIUTIONALSIED CRIMINAL BEHAVIOUR. I CHALLENGE ANYONE ON HERE TO OPENLY DEFEND IT.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I CHALLENGE ANYONE ON HERE TO OPENLY DEFEND IT.
I don't think anyone is trying, there's just lack of accord on how it should be tackled
Posted 3 years ago # -
G I beleive in a higher being however in noway or form do I beleive God talks to any priest. Charltans/frauds all of them. I cant understand how peoples faith remains strong when their mouth-pieces direct link to the Lord allows such abuse and covers up such abuse.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Yep, soz if that was a bit aggresive, but from my viewpoint having suffered from abuse as a child, (fortunately not in the bottom area, or of the fiddling variety), I have fairly strong views on the subject. Did seem to me that there was a general movement on the thread towards excusing it. Simply put regardless of the motivations the innocence of childhood is in my view sacrosanct and there is no excuse whatsoever for breaching that, most especially from those who should be defending it.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Catholic Church on Chester Road Manchester. They stand outside with the collection baskets blocking the faithfuls exit as they leave. Basically, no one can get out of giving money by the look of it.
Nice.
Posted 3 years ago # -
There was a time in Ireland when members of the congregation who hadn't handed in their easter dudes were read out from the pulpit
Posted 3 years ago #
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