It’s the way they challenged, Ernie. I only reported Junkyard and Molgrips. I would have been happy to debate my dubious claims with you as you generally stay on subject and debate rather than launch into character assassination.

Tangent alert!

Un, didn’t the UN (not just America) go to Korea to stop an invasion?

No

Yes, according to wiki:

Korea was ruled by Japan from 1910 until the closing days of World War II. In August 1945, the Soviet Union declared war on Japan and—by agreement with the United States—occupied Korea north of the 38th parallel. U.S. forces subsequently occupied the south and Japan surrendered. By 1948, two separate governments had been set up. Both governments claimed to be the legitimate government of Korea, and neither side accepted the border as permanent. The conflict escalated into open warfare when North Korean forces—supported by the Soviet Union and China—invaded South Korea on 25 June 1950.[34] On that day, the United Nations Security Council recognized this North Korean act as invasion and called for an immediate ceasefire.[35] On 27 June, the Security Council adopted S/RES/83: Complaint of aggression upon the Republic of Korea and decided the formation and dispatch of the UN Forces in Korea. Twenty-one countries of the United Nations eventually contributed to the defense of South Korea, with the United States providing 88% of the UN’s military personnel.

jamj1974 – Member

airtragic – Member
Jam may be talking bolleaux, but there’s no need to reciprocate

Sometimes, just sometimes I think idiocy should be a crime.
Posted 4 hours ago # Report-Post

I sometimes think sanctimony should. 😉

I’d like to report this thread too, mainly because it’s crap.
(Exit BadNewz, pursued by an asylum seeking bear.)

The vast majority of migrants aren’t from war zones, badnewz.

What’s your evidence for this?

Another way in which the west is responsible?

Syria’s Climate-Fueled Conflict, In One Stunning Comic Strip

That right, democratic process was a huge part of our invasion of other countries and subjugation of their people and often suppression of their culture. How can you support property rights of land stolen from it’s owners? We took property, resources and labour from a huge part of the world and then used a capitalist model and sense of religious and cultural superiority to sell goods back to them. Don’t be more dense than you can help

Property rights – nothing too do with stealing land.

http://www.libertarianism.org/publications/essays/property-rights-key-economic-development

Funnily enough western countries that never had an empire have prospered as much as the UK. The UK hasn’t had an empire for 60 years. Some former colonies have prospered while others haven’t. Not our fault. The failed countries are the result of tribalism, corruption, bad govt, and religious sectarianism.

The UK hasn’t had an empire for 60 years.

Trying to claim that because we haven’t actually physically occupied other countries for 60 years (apart from the ones were we have) there is no legacy of colonialism frankly makes you look rather stupid.

The failed countries are the result of tribalism, corruption, bad govt, and religious sectarianism.

And you really don’t think we’ve had a hand in any of those things?

Wow, I was genuinely interested to read people’s opinions on this, but the thread reads like a competition of people trying to out clever each other.

My own uneducated opinion on this is that there needs to be a Europe wide approach to dealing with this growing problem. At the moment it seems to be a mish mash of open borders, building of fences, free buses and trains, people traffickers etc… countries are dealing with it in their own way. We’re no different to anywhere else, we just have a great stretch of water to cross to get here which means we can delay any real decision on how to deal with the problem as it doesn’t seem as immediate.

I understand that the people have suffered great difficulties in their own countries in many various forms. But we have to also recognise that once they have left that country they are now relatively safe – except for those who wish to risk that further by crossing Europe/a sea at the hands of people traffickers.

A co-ordinated approach means that these people need to be recognised and dealt with at point of entry. They clearly have reasons for wanting to go to a certain part of Europe, find out where. Within reason provide safe passage to that country, because the politicians will have agreed/negotiated how many each country will accept and help – an amount that is fair and reasonable for all EU countries involved.

Currently it isn’t fair that Greece and Italy have to bare the brunt. It isn’t fair that Germany have to take the burden of 800,000 people. It isn’t fair that Macedonia can just stick on trains and buses to shift the problem on to another country. But it also isn’t fair to those involved that people are dying in the back of trucks. It isn’t fair that we’re (Britain) not really pulling our weight and helping to alleviate the problems elsewhere.

the thread reads like a competition of people trying to out clever dumb each other.

FTFY
Not a dig at you

but the thread reads like a competition of people trying to out clever each other.

Oh, if you’re new here, then you’ll find that all these threads go like that.

You may also notice that these threads don’t really achieve anything. All parties remain bitterly entrenched in their opposition to the other side and on it goes.
Minds are not open, biases are adhered to at all costs.

Enjoy!

the thread reads like a competition of people trying to out clever each other.

That’s an unnecessary dig at jambalaya just because he said :

jambalaya – Member

100% right AGAIN chaps.

No one actually believes him.

Trying to claim that because we haven’t actually physically occupied other countries for 60 years (apart from the ones were we have) there is no legacy of colonialism frankly makes you look rather stupid.

Colonialism? Legacy? After half a century? You’re sounding like a stupid lefty still blaming Thatcher for everything 25 yrs later.

Post WW2 some places like South Korea, like Singapore have started with nothing and prospered. Others, even when like Nigeria they have oil wealth, have not. Not our problem. Their problem.

You’re sounding like a stupid lefty….

You tell him irc…….the stupid lefty.

Unlike clever conservatives who know that there is no such thing as neo-colonialism or any underhand geopolitical shenanigans by western governments and their agencies such as the CIA.

“Vital US interests” isn’t even considered.

I notice the BBC news is leading on the terrible inconvenience caused to English holidaymakers with delays to their Eurotunnel trains home due to the tide of human misery desperately searching for a better life.

Cue interviews of irony free moaning and whining by clueless pampered brits

Yay for us! We’re are truly Great Britain, aren’t we?

So, aside from commenting on here what has anyone done to alleviate the migrants suffering?

I’ve got three of them living in my shed

Shed? You heartless imperialist.

So, aside from commenting on here what has anyone done to alleviate the migrants suffering?

A very good point.

Since I can’t personally do anything to help these desperate people :

if their boat capsizes and their bodies are washed up on a beach I’m not really in a position to express an opinion.

Likewise I can’t personally do anything about children dying of suffocation in lorries, so who am I to condemn this appalling state of affairs?

But perhaps I should be out there checking lorries for dying children?

others, like Nigeria, have not

To quote well known “stupid lefties” the CIA:
“Africa’s most populous country (population estimated at 48 million) is in the throes of a highly complex internal crisis rooted in its artificial origin as a British dependency containing over 250 diverse and often antagonistic tribal groups. “

Unfortunately British influence does not end the day independence is signed, and its effects are felt afterwards.

So, you see? It’s the same ole names, posting up the same old shyte.
It’s like you get to know how these threads will run, as does everyone else.
Which kind of makes one wonder why any of this lot still bother.

Unreal.

I don’t have to do anything. Our caring compassionate government has helped literally tens of them over the last few yeas, on my behalf,. And I for one think we should probably leave it at that, for fear of encouraging more of them

There was a giving thread set up for Nepal. Perhaps someone can find a relevant one for the migrants.

Just as an aside, Mrs Binners works in the charity sector. There are a lot of asylum seekers get dumped up our neck of the woods (there are more in Rochdale than in the entire South East of England, including London) . Property is cheap, and the middle classes won’t have to confront the reality of the world, or brown people, as that would be simply frightful.

As they can’t legally work while their claims are processed, and they are mainly educated professionals, they get bored. So most of them end up volunteering for local charities. To the point, after government cuts, that they’ve filled the gaps, and the charities can’t manage without them.

So they don’t seem to have a problem helping us, for their 36 quid a week. You think IDS would be featuring them in press releases, wouldn’t you? Yet strangely, this doesn’t make it into the press

Sorry if that doesn’t fit into the comfortable ‘Marauding Swarm of Scroungers’ narrative

irc – just a couple of quick examples:

https://www.hrw.org/news/1999/02/23/oil-companies-complicit-nigerian-abuses
https://www.globalwitness.org/archive/british-banks-complicit-nigerian-corruption-court-documents-reveal/

Also, notorious lefty David Cameron: “As with so many of the problems of the world, we are responsible for their creation in the first place.”

So, aside from commenting on here what has anyone done to alleviate the migrants suffering?

Nothing directly. Although I do try and provide a friendly environment and a decent education to some if they end up in my class. One was a 5yo girl who had seen her Dad get killed before her mother fled the country.

BTW Binners, this is in the middle class South East/East Anglia where we don’t get “brown people”. Even though I’ve had classes with all but 2 classed as white British.1/2 are Eastern European and the rest are “brown”. Friends who teach locally also have a similar class demographic. Most of our classes are recent economic migrants and have not sought asylum, although some will have.

you can donate by paypal to laubergedesmigrants@hotmail.fr

https://www.facebook.com/laubergedesmigrantsinternational

The issue I have with left-wing support for illegal immigrants/asylum seekers/economic migrants is discriminating between genuine, saintly concern (and I think saints in this life are very rare) and hatred towards the Tories.

I think the test is in the pudding, i.e. giving up a room in your house. I don’t have much time for arguments along the lines of “I work in the social services” because ultimately that is your occupation, if you do it for free, then you are the better person.

illegal immigrants/asylum seekers/economic migrants

Three very different groups of people with different needs and rights and we have different responsibilities towards all three whatever wing we might wish (oddly) to represent.

Three very different groups of people with different needs and rights and we have different responsibilities towards all three whatever wing we might wish (oddly) to represent.

Yes, quite right (half this thread is on discriminating between the three, that’s why I put them all down).

The issue I have with left-wing support for illegal immigrants/asylum seekers/economic migrants is discriminating between genuine, saintly concern (and I think saints in this life are very rare) and hatred towards the Tories.

I dont think it’s a party politics issue, just one of human compassion.

I dont think it’s a party politics issue, just one of human compassion.

I disagree, “Compassion” is a subjective term. People will appear compassionate to get their own way, and labeling other people (i.e. right wingers) as uncompassionate is a political strategy. That was the point of my post.

I think the test is in the pudding, i.e. giving up a room in your house.

Brilliant !

My hatred of the Tories has little bearing on my compassion for the suffering of these refugees , nor does it help me offer any sort of a solution to the issues

DrJ – Member

The issue I have with left-wing support for illegal immigrants/asylum seekers/economic migrants is discriminating between genuine, saintly concern (and I think saints in this life are very rare) and hatred towards the Tories.

I dont think it’s a party politics issue, just one of human compassion. [/quote]

You cannot force people to show compassion for another human being as people do not think alike.

If you force people to show compassion then you are imposing your views on them and you are no better/difference than ISIS/Taliban etc.

In a democracy the majority rules and if the majority of people vote against your arguments/thinking or to show compassion to others then you have to accept that.

I do not accept compassion is forced upon just because people force you to accept them due to their hardships etc.

Bear in mind their hardships are not caused by me (you may have caused the hardship perhaps because you want to intervene by calling to topple their dictators?) directly or indirectly coz I did not vote to topple the dictators who did not invade other nation(s).

The irony is that those who called for freedom to topple those dictators are the ones that may have indirectly create the current mass hardship for the population.

Bear in mind, dictators may be causing pains/hardships to certain people within the population but certainly not at the current scale we are witnessing. i.e. mass exodus.

Therefore, your view on compassion is blurred with guilt … guilt like those that once called to have more freedom, to topple or to engage/intervene in others (nations) affairs. Yes, the chickens have come home to roost.

Compassion is better off by being honest to oneself and NOT just a pretend or forced upon (majority rule). It will be better for the immigrants as well as the host nation in the long run.

Nope, there is no certainty that time will heal/change a person’s views.

Like I said previously you are biased, unfair and most of all skewed in your views of the meaning of compassion.

How about those who do not have the ability to be trafficked to your doorstep to be shown compassion? Are they not worthy of being shown compassion or because you do not see them?

As in my trademark saying we are all ZMs!

Nope, I am not heartless and yes I will still help you (general referring to people) if you are dying in front of me.

😯

Do you even understand what you are saying half the time?

EDIT: Should explain that’s not some cheap shot; this whole situation is awful, and in my vaguely informed opinion, is fuelled by ‘The West’, but I seriously have no idea what the point is that you’re trying to make.

bearnecessities – Member
Do you even understand what you are saying half the time?

Yes, I do.

I can explain again if you do not understand my simple “English”.

I don’t mind.

😮

p/s: Present your views if you dispute mine coz you have not contributed anything to this thread/topic. Would be good to see your views and yes I accept alternative views. Yes?

bearnecessities – Member

Do you even understand what you are saying half the time?

EDIT: Should explain that’s not some cheap shot; this whole situation is awful, and in my vaguely informed opinion, is fuelled by ‘The West’, but I seriously have no idea what the point is that you’re trying to make.

My points are simple:

1. You cannot force others to be compassionate to (help) others.
2. You cannot say that all hardships are created by the West unless of course you are assuming they are all brain dead.
3. There are rules to comply i.e. queue up and be processed. Not to swap the system.
4. Guilt and compassion are two different issues. The former is to right the wrong while the latter is just natural and fair. In this case, I fear the former.

if you do not understand my simple “English”.

😕

@oldnpastit, yup! Old Bill Hague thought aiding in the arming of those trying to topple Assad would be a good idea. Even though there are many examples of this in history where it has come back to bite. He also ignored the advice of the very people employed to advise on such matters.

Low and behold their true colours have shown, cue wholesale slaughter of civilians. And atrocities that really would make your eyes water. Facepalm Hague. Faceplam.

moose – Member

@oldnpastit, yup! Old Bill Hague thought aiding in the arming of those trying to topple Assad would be a good idea.

Actually, the whole affairs started with Libya as Iraq was more or less contained.