Buying shares in a pub (Hebden Bridge content)

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  • Buying shares in a pub (Hebden Bridge content)
  • Premier Icon bearnecessities
    Subscriber

    Looked nice until I saw “restructure the business model” then closed page.

    I don’t have a big risk appetite though 😥

    hora
    Member

    TBH (I like Hebden) – I can’t see alot of pubs there doing brisk enough trade pre/post-weekend daytime business.

    I’d love to be proven wrong.

    grum
    Member

    I’d love to be proven wrong.

    Looked nice until I saw “restructure the business model” then closed page.

    I’m not suggesting it would be a particularly sound financial investment! More of a good community thing to support really – I wouldn’t be planning to plough my life savings into it.

    hora
    Member

    I’m guessing as a cynic it could be to create enough cashflow to keep it going alittle bit longer too.

    Premier Icon bearnecessities
    Subscriber

    As long as you see it as a gamble rather than investment, then it’s a nice thing to do. I like HB too.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Talking to the landlord of our local, who’s calling it a day, the other night. The pub business is absolutely on its knees. As a landlord you get ****ed over by the breweries at every turn. They’ve absolutely got you by the short and curlies.

    I’ll be amazed if there are any local boozer type pubs left in 5 years. It’ll just be chains and gastropubs. If you’re not doing loads of food etc, and your just punting pints, its virtually impossible to make a profit

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    It’s a nice pub, but needs an awful lot of money spending on it.
    The interior is scruffy and it’s not in the best location.

    It’s usp is the range of real ales and it’s ‘unique’ er, ambience.

    However The Bridge now has a really good selection of proper beers on and if you want to experience the Fox & Goose atmosphere you could just roll in horse manure and sit on your own in a shed.

    Shame. I really, really like the place.

    grum
    Member

    The pub business is absolutely on its knees. As a landlord you get ****ed over by the breweries at every turn.

    Yeah the price of beer in pubs vs supermarkets etc is just ridiculous.

    I remember when I first started drinking not far off 20 years ago – the prices now in shops are virtually identical to what they were back then, whereas the price in pubs seems to have nearly tripled.

    I have heard horrific tales of ‘tied’ pubs being shafted by the breweries/pubcos – is being a free house any better?

    if you want to experience the Fox & Goose atmosphere you could just roll in horse manure and sit on your own in a shed.

    🙂

    However The Bridge now has a really good selection of proper beers on

    Which one’s that then? 😕

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Grum – Its not just the supermarkets. He was saying he walks into places like weatherspoons, looks at the prices they’re selling for, and he can’t buy his beer for that, direct from the brewery. How the hell are they supposed to compete? Hence the pubs that do remain will be the big souless chains

    unovolo
    Member

    Other than the likes of Wetherspoons the only pubs that seem to do well/still be trading are Freehouses.

    As your not tied to a brewery you can buy from who you want and reap more of the proceeds.

    You still need to be offering something the buying public want though whether it be the atmosphere or ambience,real ales ,food etc actually most of the pubs round our way that seem to do well are the ones that do decent food to.

    I’d love to be able to invest in this but funds are tight.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Grum, sorry, it’s called The Old Gate now, my mistake.
    They’ve a posh website and everyfink.

    The big one opposite Blazing Saddles on the main road.
    It’s clean, does good food and is almost completely devoid of character.

    Which is what the affluent tourists and quite a few of the locals seem to want.

    grum
    Member

    Ah right yeah – never been in there. Looks quite nice but like it would be expensive.

    Grum – Its not just the supermarkets. He was saying he walks into places like weatherspoons, looks at the prices they’re selling for, and he can’t buy his beer for that, direct from the brewery.

    Going to Wetherspoons = buying stuff from CRC. 😉

    actually most of the pubs round our way that seem to do well are the ones that do decent food to.

    Yup – I do like the odd pub you go to that just concentrates on being a pub though. The Golden Rule in Ambleside is one.

    grum
    Member

    I’m quite tempted to do this – anyone else fancy owning a small share in a probably not very profitable pub in Hebden? Seems like the kind of pub you don’t really get any more – very old fashioned but full of character. Would be a shame to see it go.

    http://www.microgenius.org.uk/project/the-fox-and-goose-11
    http://www.foxandgoose.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Draft-Share-offer-26-4-13.pdf

    I guess it’s not looking that hopeful that they will meet the target – or might there be a last-minute flurry? not sure how these things usually go (if there has been many others).

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    It’s not that bad, tbh.
    If you like being served by a barman who looks like a used car salesman and knows his beer, you’ll love it.

    If you prefer to be served by someone who also knows his beer, smells like Baldrick’s trousers and looks like a supporting character from Oliver Twist then the Fox and Goose is your pub.

    Prefer the Trades myself 😀

    grittyshaker
    Member

    The Old Gate may well be devoid of character but not devoid of characters. Think a certain Tod-based bike designer drinks in there.

    I saw the scrawled chalkboard notice outside the F&G too, last I was there, and felt I didn’t need to go inside to think I’d give that particular investment opportunity a miss.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    No longer Tod based – I think he’s moved to HB now.
    La, di and indeed, da.

    I nearly ran him over a while ago as he was running over the road to the Co-Op.
    Tried reversing but he’d gone.

    grum
    Member

    Think a certain Tod-based bike designer drinks in there.

    He’ll be able to afford it in there due to the vast profits involved in manufacturing hardcore hardtails out of Taiwanese childrens’ tears.

    If you prefer to be served by someone who also knows his beer, smells like Baldrick’s trousers and looks like a supporting character from Oliver Twist then the Fox and Goose is your pub.

    🙂

    Yeah I like The Trades too.

    Mr_Mojo
    Member

    I’m sure Wetherspoons sell it cheap as they buy it cheap. I’ve been told all the draught beers are very close to the sell by date when they get it so its heavily discounted.

    thepublican
    Member

    @Mr_Mojo..

    Urban myth-I promise you they dont. Near on 1000 pubs with a colossal turnover in beer sales; it’s not possible for either the major brewers to over brew that much beer or for Wetherspoons to base their low prices on the chance of buying their beer at a discount.

    They simply have such a huge turnover that they can practise the perfect example of ‘stack it high, sell it cheap’…

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    Do you have to deal with the big brewers. Aren’t there enough independent brewers out there to supply a niche pub?

    thepublican
    Member

    The Fox&Goose? Yes, no need to deal with anyone large if it’s freehold they’re proposing to buy, and if they are buying it outright (??) then with no rent/mortgage they should be able to sell local niche products/ales at very reasonable prices.

    konabunny
    Member

    Is the idea that the incumbent owner would take your money and you’d trust them to change tack and pay you?

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    I’ll be amazed if there are any local boozer type pubs left in 5 years. It’ll just be chains and gastropubs. If you’re not doing loads of food etc, and your just punting pints, its virtually impossible to make a profit

    not true IMO. A pub is a business like any other, the landlords with a head for business will be doing ok. You just can’t expect people to sit all day in a boozer any more so you have to change with the times.

    There are a few micro pubs locally doing well, 10 people and they are packed in like sardines, but they only serve proper ale and have a steady stream of punters popping in for a pint or two all day. Overheads are low because the premises are tiny, plus they have no kitchen/sky tv/brewery to worry about. Another larger place is doing extremely well, they brew their own beer and are v popular with CAMRA types, yet fri/sat evening the lasers and disco ball comes out and they attract a much younger crowd.

    Agree that the “local boozer” type place is dying out, not such a bad thing though, they’re normally pretty depressing places.

    mudshark
    Member

    Talking to the landlord of our local, who’s calling it a day, the other night. The pub business is absolutely on its knees. As a landlord you get ****ed over by the breweries at every turn. They’ve absolutely got you by the short and curlies.

    I’ll be amazed if there are any local boozer type pubs left in 5 years. It’ll just be chains and gastropubs. If you’re not doing loads of food etc, and your just punting pints, its virtually impossible to make a profit

    Hmm so are the breweries not interested in the survival of these traditional pubs then? No point killing off your customers but do they think that chains and gastropubs are the sort of customers they prefer and they would like more rather than traditional ones?

    user-removed
    Member

    My local is a proper old geezers’ pub. Beautiful, converted stable block. No signage of any kind and it’d be very easy to walk past the entrance (through a fantastic sheltered garden) without knowing it was a pub. They started doing food about five years ago and have gone from strength to strength.

    It’s like eating at Crow Crag (Withnail and I). All open fires, port, candles, crisp linen and mis-matched vintage cutlery. And the food is simple but excellent.

    Good business heads on the owners.

    hora
    Member

    Mudshark. Freehouses/small chains are their enemy. Use your southern-thinking-its small shops v supermarkets.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Mudshark – The breweries own the pubs/land. They’ll milk their tenants for as long as possible, before they flog it to turn into flats. They can’t lose. They win either way. If someone who’s sunk their life savings/retirement into the place loses their livelihood/savings ? Well…. Who cares?

    That’s the reality

    globalti
    Member

    You need loud music, some strippers, karaoke, quizzes and some extremely expensive lager, you’ll be driving that Porsche before you can say “bouncer”.

    Seriously though, one thing I have learned in thirty years of drinking in pubs is that the landlord maketh the pub and is responsible for its success or failure in the kind of clientele he encourages and discourages and the tone he sets to his welcome.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    The breweries own the pubs/land. They’ll milk their tenants for as long as possible, before they flog it to turn into flats. They can’t lose.

    I think you are talking about big, traditional breweries (who make crap beer) and the pubs they own. Couldn’t care less about those personally, I don’t buy their beer or drink in their pubs. There are a huge number of small brewing operations springing up now and the mega-brewers are getting scared as they are seeing their market share eroded (I have heard this first hand from people who work for the local one). Good, as far as I’m concerned. The little brewers don’t sell their beer in supermarkets and depend on the local free pubs to survive so are behind them 100% which is as it should be. The pub/ale industry locally as booming, it’s a great time to drink beer!

    Premier Icon totalshell
    Subscriber

    awful location, zero parking, zero walk up trade, 150yds from busiest pub in the town ( stubley wharf..)

    i’m out

    duntstick
    Member

    They’re not moving it on because they can’t deal with the wealth forced upon them…………..

    You’d have to visit, traffic lights sod all parking, outside the main strip…..

    spchantler
    Member

    years before the real ale revolution the fox and goose was the only place to get a decent pint in hebden, then, up until recently, it was the best pub in town, a town which is awash with great beer. the trouble is, i can’t see the locals using their spare cash to invest in property, they are beer drinkers after all… good luck to them, its still a great pub.

    sod all parking

    the locals park further up the hill, what kind of seasoned drink driver parks outside the pub anyway 😉

    hora
    Member

    ‘Some strippers’ in Hebden. Seen the women there? (Shudders).

    Thicker wrists/ankles and bigger feet than me

    FunkyDunc
    Member

    Its years since ive been in that dump.. Sorry pub.

    Im surprised its still going.

    muddyfool
    Member

    Big breweries holding publicans to ransom mostly ended in the late 80s/early 90s when the monopolies and mergers decided to limit the number of pubs brewers could own.

    Some would say that the culprits these days are the big tenanted pub companies with 1000s of pubs each: punch, enterprise, etc. The counter argument is that if they charged less for the beer they’d charge more rent to maintain margins (and stay in business. which is touch and go at times in the current climate) so they would argue that they’re sharing the risk with the tenant.

    There are still the old family/regional brewers who both brew and have a few hundred pubs (Fullers, Robinsons, Brains, St Austell, etc) but they are tiny compared to the big pub companies and are relatively fair to their tenants in my opinion, although the ones whose businesses fail probably disagree!

    Of course, they are all utterly dwarfed by the big brewers, of which there are probably about 6 globally, but they don’t own pubs. Heineken are probably the biggest in the UK since they bought Scottish and Newcastle a few years ago. When you start to read up on who owns which brands it’s incredible how many well known ones (especially lagers but also the likes of doombar) are owned by so few companies.

    The opposite end if the scale is the microbrewers, who thanks to a significant tax break can undercut all the others so can compete with the big brands to some extent without having to spend on marketing, as long as they don’t get too big. This is a really good thing in my opinion and some of them do make some really nice beer 🙂

    Oh and yes, wetherspoons are the crc/tesco of the pub world. Massive buying power, drive down prices, more people buy from them so their buying power increases.Vicious circle.

    Fundamentally though the problem for pubs is that I and so many like me are sitting at home watching tv/on the Internet with a supermarket bottle of wine whereas in the 80s i’d probably have been stopping at the pub for early doors each night. I love a good evening in a nice real ale pub but tbh I don’t do it often. That said, the pubs that struggle most are the carling/fosters type drinking pubs. A well-run ale house or quality food-led pub can do extremely well at the moment, subject to location.

    Hmm, long post. TL;DR: it’s complicated and always changing, but there’s still room for good pubs and good beer. Oh. And I probably won’t invest in that pub, personally, but good luck to anyone that does. 🙂

    I’m sure Wetherspoons sell it cheap as they buy it cheap. I’ve been told all the draught beers are very close to the sell by date when they get it so its heavily discounted.

    Absolute rubbish . You could not be more wrong if you were Mr Wrong from wrongsville.

    JDW as a group give managers carte blanche to buy whatever stock they want froma huge supply list . All JDW will stock 3 or 4 core bitters . Directors , Spitfire and another ‘Big Brewery’ bitter. Then depending on throughput all have 6 – 8 other handpulls , mostly from localish micro breweries.

    There is no way I know on a Monday JDW are going to order 1 or 100 casks of beer . All beer that goes into a JDW has to have a 1 month shelf life remaining. This doesnt sound a long time , and it isnt compared to baked beans or frozn peas. This is however 50% of its available shelf life .

    JDW do have a centralised buying and pricing structure which ensures huge volume and a significant discount that goes with it .

    All JDW pubs have very clean cellars and the beers are generally well kept , compared to some pub cellars that are so horrible they smell like a tramp has been sick in them . That air is sucked into the cask when its served , so goes off quickly because fat , lazy landlords wont spend 30 mins washing down the cellar.

    Its an unfortunate YY to pubcos squeezing the supplier and the LL to make millions. No need to sell beer for £3 – £4 a pint . It costs 40p – 60p a pint to make depending on strength and size of brewery. A freehouse can still buy in real ale for around 90p a pint , around £1.10 for lager . So the margins are there , its the Pubcos charging the LL £1.50 a pint that has the prices to shoot up

    wrightyson
    Member

    We nipped down to our local last night after dropping the little lady off at prom. We had 3 drinks each couple of bags of crisps and laddo had two cokes. I was nearly 30 quid lighter on the way home. That and that only is the reason it’s only the second time we’ve been this year for a quick drink…

    grum
    Member

    Well, I bought £100 worth. They’ve extended the deadline for another couple of weeks but they’re up to 84% of the target. 🙂

    konabunny
    Member

    Who are the directors of the company?

    grum
    Member

    Surely my investment means I will be in charge now? 🙂

    Not sure but I think there will be elections at an AGM to choose directors.

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