So, me and the missus are looking at houses; we're first time buyers. Our budget is 170K tops. We've pretty much limited ourselves to l0oking at list prices up to 175 but how unlikely is it that sellers of houses at 180/185 would listen to offers of 170K? Are we dreaming or is it a possibility (well aware that all kinds of factors could effect this but generally what do you think)?

Our house was on for £280k and we paid £245k for it, as I always say to the Mrs if you don't ask you don't get, the worst there gonna say is no, what have you go to lose by asking

As first time buyers not in a chain, i'd look at 200k, there is nothing to lose

I always say to the Mrs if you don't ask you don't get

That's what I was thinking 🙂

You can always go up, but (rarely) down. Its an *asking* price, nothing more.

There was another thread on this recently with sage advice…

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-would-be-considered-to-be-reasonable-offer-on-a-house

:edit: Personally though I don't believe in 'put in x% below asking' opinions as I believe its all down to researching the local market as to what offer you put in. Bought and sold several houses in the last few years with the most recent completing in last November; we were renting in the area and studied the local housing market very closely for nearly a year as it was our intention to buy and frankly we'd never have got the property if we hadn't offered what we did as the area was very popular with way my buyers than sellers.

Having just bought a house I agree with the above comments…but…don't set your heart on something only to find the vendor want drop it enough for you to afford it.

My GF did, the vendor wouldn't budge, she was gutted, there were tears, ti was not fun.

We jumped out of the market 2+ years ago and are just waiting for our purchase to go through in the next couple of weeks (so are effectively FTB's).

We've got a similar deal to Mr 5 O and would back his points – it's ALWAYS worth a punt. It depends hugely where you are in the country as to how the market is. Estate agents are mostly useless and self-serving, so deal with the vendor direct if you can. Keep an eye out what's being sticking for a while on Rightmove, etc, and go see it. Keep an eye out for empty houses as there are lots of forced sales around. Beware the vendors who "haven't started looking till we get an offer on this place…" i.e., keep looking even if you "find". Having said that about estate agents, you need them to know you're serious so go viewing plenty of things and have a mortgage AIP in place with someone (your bank) – then they won't push too hard for a mortgage appointment. Make friends of the decent staff and they'll let you know when hot new stuff is going to come on – you will be a good buyer for them.

As FTB's won't you be benefiting from zero stamp duty as well?

This kind of thing is going to depend on so many factors. When I bought about 2 years ago, difference between selling price and asking price was about 9% on average IIRC, so £185k properties would be well within your means. According to an estate agent, your first offer should be insultingly low 🙂

Looking at it coldly, the UK is financially unstable and there are 2.5 million out of work. You should be able to get a bargain on something, just be prepared to compromise.

Cheers – and thanks for the link as I'd missed that (a week's ban for a minor rant, d'oh!).

It's good advice, thanks. We're going to get AIP in the next couple of weeks so will be in a pretty good position. There's also an extension for Firefox ('Property Bee') which tracks edits on Rightmove so we're keeping track of changes in price, length of time on market etc.

I have often wondered about doing a reverse shill, send all your mates round to make ridiculously low offers, then when your offer goes in (not quite as ridiculously low, but still silly low) it seems like the vendors only choice but to accept your offer…

We've just had an offer accepted but the seller was not budging from the asking price, we got a few things added into the deal but while we wanted them down a little and had our reasons to knock a few K off (and were in the ideal position – no chain, FTB, able to move immediately, but there's a few questionable issues we need to sort) they wouldn't come down, and to be honest I don't really blame them – in the local market it was well priced for a house thats practically re-done from top to bottom, new DG, new boiler, new bathroom, new kitchen etc etc and only 30K more than several smaller, old style wood frame boxes round the corner, and with parking for 4 cars, a new detached, powered concrete garage, shed etc etc.

Okay, 2 weeks on. We're still first time buyers, have agreement in principle from the bank and are ready to roll. We've seen somewhere; the buyer, "has had to move abroad," house empty, no offers for a while and on the market at £179,995. What would be a reasonable offer?

£140k

you're kidding? I thought 165k was getting a bit cheeky!

Like anything really, haggle.

Keep offering a price until the Agent etc or house owner says ok.

Don't forget you get price even lower due probs found in building survey.

I bought a student house, £150K, I offered 135K, 139K, then 142K and sold-it was in an ok area but easily snapped up by other buyers-I lost out twice in the same street.

Servey show damp kitchen, fear on tv about price crashes. I knocked it down to 137K and they agreed.

Cost me £3K in parts for me and Dad to rebuild everything and was valued at £180K last year probably 170K now and probably get £155K offers but I wouldn;t less than 160K.

Some add 10% etc.

I think you should start at 160K at least and up you go till both sides are happy.

My pal offered 40K less for £200k house 2 yrs ago and sold on first offer but it is a flood risk area lol.

Yeah, but what if they really would take £140k, that's £15k thrown away for the half hour it takes to make the offer. Can you earn money at £30k an hour? Seriously though, if you're going to do it, make sure you do it with copies of your mortgage offer in writing, a letter or card from your solicitor together with the name of the person who'd be dealing with it for you, and a clearly outlined letter saying you'd like to move fast and have the whole deal done before Osborne can raise the stamp duty again. You never know, and if they reject it, you get the chance to ask "what's it got to be then?" and you're in the driving seat then.

£165k is not cheeky depending on what equivalent houses have sold for. What have equivalent houses sold for? Offer a reasonable percentage less than that. REMEMBER, they'll have set the asking price artificially high because they expect people to offer lots less. Don't dissapoint them.

If your first offer is accepted it was too high. You'll never know what the vendor's lowest price is unless you bid under it.

So start mega low until its sorted.

I'm getting the hint: not to worry about insulting anyone with a low offer cos once we agree he'll be happy as larry.

The negotiation should only really start once the 'completion' date is reached…

Until you've a mortgage (assuming at least 75% loan) secured, you've no idea of a house's value/cost.

If it needs a survey, that could be £500 spent, and nothing realised.

The real 'savings' are when property is just above stamp bands, e.g. £250k-£275k.

Remember the estate agent works for the seller.

Now that the tories are in power I'd wait a while. The prices will nosedive and interest rates will sky rocket….

You've got nothing to loose by putting a 'cheeky' offer in. Talk to the agent too. End of the day, in this day and age most people aren't going to get the asking price and they will have a price in mind – you need to establish what that might be. They might have their eye on a property themselves and that will help define their lowest acceptable price, so talk to the agent and see what they say too – although estate agents don't have the greatest reputation I think it pays to at least try and have a decent dialogue with them. We had a pretty constructive negotiation on our house purchase back in March. Went in 60K below asking and was considering 80K below. In the end agreed on 40K below, which was about 10K more than I hoped to pay but 15K less than they appeared to want. Was happy with that given what other properties were going for in the area.

End of the day, do your research – there are plenty of tools to do it. You might be surprised at what you get away with.

Not sure what br means that negotiation on price should only start when completion date agreed though – normally wouldn't agree completion date until more or less getting around to exchange and by then you will need mortgage and valuation all sorted out. And I would say that estate agents work for themselves – it is in their interest to sell the house full stop and the difference of 10K here or there won't make bugger all difference to them when there fee is 1.5-2%. If they think they can get a deal and the house has been on for a while they will try pretty hard to sell that deal to the seller (their client) if they think they can get away with it.

cheers all – a lot of food for thought and sound advice. Much appreciated.

My head's about to explode. We've just had our 162K offer on something that was on at 180K….
blimey!

Now comes the tricky bit: solicitors etc.

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement.

Good stuff. Now wait till it's nearly a done deal and gazunder them 😉

We used a conveyencer for the first time, rather than a solicitor. It was cheaper, very efficient and simply more straight forward than dealing with a solicitor – if it's a simple purchase then I would advocate looking into it yourself.

BTW, we got our house 2.5 weeks ago now and have a list of problems as long as my arm that were spotted by a (trusted) builder and a friendly surveyor. If you have any access to such people then I would recommend it; otherwise consider going for a survey above the minimum if the house is slightly older/bigger/etc.

Survey's aren't worth the f*cking paper they're written on. We paid for an "enhanced" survey (homebuyers), it was about £700. He didn't find anything of note, small patch of damp in the dining room that's all. He somehow completely missed the leaky roof, the consequential damp patches in the bedrooms and dodgy wiring. The documentation received (and I suspect it's universal) just says buyer beware basically, and they don't guarantee any of the findings or offer advice.

My advice – if you know someone "in the trade", get them to check it out – you'll get more peace of mind/honesty IMO.

Good luck! 😀

I still think house prices in the UK are still way too high compared to earnings, and the market will fall sooner or later. So don't pay more than you are willing to for a home to live in, forget all pretences of profit that ship has sailed.

fwiw, house in my area are uite reguarly bidding up and over there asking prices but its only the really nice stuff and we live in a very desirable town.one i was shown went for 60k over the asking price…

cheers all. celebratory kebabs for tea and a gratuitous drive-by* afterwards 🙂

*of the house!

MSP – agreed.

We've gone for a 4 bed detached to secure some stability for our forthcoming family on the basis that houses like that in the area we're in will always be needed. Having called the top of the market and now a slight bottom correctly I'm certain there's more to come, even if the Libtories don't fiddle with CGT.

The only thing worrying me is interest rates 12 months from now, especially since we've gone down to 1 income and have no way of saving the money back we've just spunked on the repairs…

Thanks again to everyone above. We've been in chez Heathen for two days now – very, very happy 🙂