After much deliberating, i think that I am finally ready to giving wheel building a try. I had some DT Swiss 350 straight pull hubs already, and fancied a set of wider rims. The wheels are going to be used on a hardtail, mainly for cross country and fast bimbling… I was hoping to get sort of a fatbike feeling, but there is only room for a size 2.6 tire, perhaps slightly more. Weight is not my main con-cern, but the lighter the better. I weigh about 90 kilos, and the bike weighs approximately 12 kilos with my current wheels. These wheels will see no Red Bull Rampage or even large drop action.

I looked at my possibilities, and decided on the following setup:

DT Swiss 350 straight pull hubs, 28 holes.
DT Swiss XM481 rims, 29’er flavor.
DT Swiss Champion or Competition spokes.

What would the advantages be to using one type of spoke over another, apart from a small weight difference? My choice of rim is limited because of the 28 hole hubs, but I already have the hubs… Either way, I have always liked DT Swiss rims. The XM481’s are 30mm internal, was thinking about going to 35mm, but these are harder to find.

I used the spoke calculator on the DT Swiss homepage, and it suggested that I needed 28 303mm spokes, and 28 304mm spokes… So I would probably get away with using 304 all the way, right?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, as I am slightly nervous starting my first build!

The double-butted Competition spokes are preferable as they are more ‘elastic’ than a plain gauge but I’d avoid the temptation to go for alloy nipples as they tend to corrode. 1mm variation in spoke length makes little difference. I’d try and find the 35mm rim if you want to maximize the benefits of a wider tyre.

its pretty easy ’tis wheel building. Loads of good videos on youtube. good luck and enjoy!

The last set I did came up with similar measurements and I tried to use the same length for both sides – wrong call as the drive-side ones at the rear were too long and bottomed out on the threads. Depending on spokes, you can sometimes get away with it, but DT Swiss don’t and you may find you’ll end up hitting the end of the adjustment. Go a little shorter and you’ll be fine.

Another vote for DT Swiss Competition and brass nipples (I used Sapim – get them from eBay). If you’re going black spokes, you might want to use black nipples too as it looks much better 🙂

Oh, and buy this book. It’s great and got my first few wheels done with little fuss.

I knew I could count on the forum to give me some good advice!

I will definitely look into the book. Sounds like it will be money well spent to upgrade the spokes. Would you recommend that I go 302mm all round, or use the recommended 304 as well. The price difference is not insubstantial, as I would be buying individual spokes and not a whole box. The DT Swiss rims come with nipples and washers included, so I was inclined to use them…

Regarding rims, does anybody have any suggestions for 35 mm 28 hole rims?

For my first build I used the few paragraphs on Sheldon Brown site. Not sure how a whole book can exist on the process as there really isn’t much to it.

Calculated spoke values need to be viewed in the light of available sizes. If confronted with decimals, usual advice is rounding down below 0.5 and up from 0.5 upward just as you would normally. So long as you’re consistent it shouldn’t be a big deal.

The closer you get to calculated values, the easier time you’ll have with dishing and truing which are where most time is spent on first builds. ‘Right’ decisions have to be viewed in the light of measuring accuracy and experience. Going long risks not having enough thread to properly tension and short will have less thread engagement in nipple possibly leading to stress failures. It is possible to take huge liberties and still get a decent wheel, but it’s not a good idea on a first build.

If you calc 303 and 304 and 303 isn’t available, I’d personally go down on the 303 and stay put on 304.

The Musson ebook is a tenner well spent for reading before you start although it’s not a great on the job manual.

If you’re asking for rim recommendations, have you bought rims yet? ERD varies in production and while it’s annoying you really should measure the hubs and rims yourself before making calculations, I’d be happy letting the DT calc tell me how big the hubs are though.

Best deals on spokes and nips is usually Rose Bikes in Germany. Often knocking on half UK price for DT.

Hope the slightly disjointed spew of thought helps!

@kerley, a lot of what’s in the Musson book is theory, use of tools, how to make your own tools and then there’s a wide variety of information on wheels that aren’t three-cross. There’s quite a bit about different drilling patterns which is pretty well redundant now, although Asymetric is well worth knowing about now. The section on building is really quite short, as you say lacing a wheel is simple but how it’s carried out can affect how quick the dishing and truing are. Brandt is even heavier on theory and purists will usually recommend his book instead.

For the price, it’s worthwhile, especially as you get free updates whenever something new is added. Sheldon Brown was a great bike writer in his life, but covering everything about wheel building in a couple of paras Just isn’t possible although you could describe a particular build.

So much great advice!

I haven’t bought the rims or spokes yet, will be buying them from Ze Germans, as I am in Denmark and postage is cheap. I can get DT Swiss competition spokes from Germany at about half a pound a piece. My LBS charges 2 pounds for a single spoke!

The recommended Spoke sizes I get from the calculator is 303,1mm – 304,1mm – 304,2mm and 303,5mm… and the spokes are available in 302 and 304mm.

I know that the stated ERD is sometimes a little off, but I do not trust my abilities to measure accu-rately, especially as there are washers and such to take into consideration.

I am really considering buying black nipples… Sounds kinda naughty, doesn’t it?

I love the wheelpro guide but in all honesty I only really use the lacing guides, it genuinely is fairly straightforward apart from that. The thing that surprised me is that building a wheel is generally easier than truing a wheel, because you’re not fighting it. And it’s soooooo relaxing.

Interesting responses, I’ve an old set of straight pull mavic hubs (26″/24H flavour) which I was tempted to disassemble and rebuild with 622mm Rims for 29er/700c use… I’ve built a fair few “Traditional” J-bent spoked wheels over the years and I’m not normally intimidated by the prospect of building a wheel, Of course when I asked about it on here I was pretty roundly discouraged and I’ll admit I let the nay-sayers dissuade me, the hubs are still say doing nothing 6 months later…

I say crack on with it, there’s nothing worse than unused parts sat in a box taunting you with possibilities…

Another nudge for Rose Bikes – that’s where I get my spokes from and it’s much cheaper than the UK, even factoring in shipping. Black nipples are cool – you can get black, brass nipples too, so they are strong (resilient to ham-fisted mechanicing) and look cool 🙂

For me, the Musson book was an interesting read with a few tips and a nice process to go from a pile of bits to a finished wheel. I don’t use it now (apart from the lacing instructions!) but my first couple of builds owed their success to that book and it easily paid for itself.

When I built my wheels I had another, fully built, wheel on the bench too. Made it really easy to follow the spoke pattern.
If you go with the DT rims they’ll come with nipples and washers. Make sure you use the washers..
I made a tool for doing the nipples out od a disc rotor bolt as it’s the same Torx size as the head of the nipple.

Built my first pair recently for my fat bike and I’m still alive. Roger Musson e-book, Spokey Red and x-tools £20 dishing tool are all you need.

x-tools £20 dishing tool are all you need.

or a bit of cardboard cut into a shallow c-shape.

Agree that after the first read you’ll probably only refer to the lacing chapter of Musson mostly, but that’s reference books for yer!

I’m personally not a fan of black nipples as they’re a bugger for showing scratches no matter how careful you thought you were being! I tend to silver for this reason but usually black spokes. Always brass nipples. 😈

I bought the Minoura stand from BikeDiscount, it shipped with a free dish gauge. I’d used someone else’s Minoura previously and liked it. Wheel stands aren’t really necessary, upside down bike with pencils or whatever taped to the fork/chainstay will do but it is nicer to have the stand if you don’t mind buying or building. Regarding measurement or ERD, the best way to do this is with two old spokes and a ruler. You glue nipples to each spoke so they can’t spin, then cut each spoke to a known length, say 100mm. Then you insert them in opposing spoke holes and pull tight, then measure the distance between them and add the length of the spokes. Easy and accurate. 😀

Enjoy, and have fun!

Definately recommend rose bikes for spokes. Shame they don’t seem to stock black Dt revs but I usually build with comps.

Amazingly they are still cheaper than uk suppliers on only 64 spokes even factoring in the 7 quid postage.

Turns out that Rose Bikes does not have the rims OR the spokes I wanted… No worries, I was plan-ning to buy from one of the others anyway.

I was looking at German shop Bike Components, and noticed that they stock 35 mm 28 hole rims from a company called “Newmen”… Never heard of them before, very limited information on the Net about them. Seems like they are designed in Germany, probably made of Chinesium. Does an-ybody have any experience with the brand?

Bike24 is a good source of rims & spokes..

but covering everything about wheel building in a couple of paras Just isn’t possible although you could describe a particular build.

Agree, however didn’t realise the OP was going into the wheel building business and was just going to be building one set of wheels where knowing everything about wheel building is really not required but guess some people like to be over armed…

Not sure how a whole book can exist on the process as there really isn’t much to it.

People just were responding to this.