[Closed] Bike packing vs. Touring

Pros: you'll be able to carry much more with a rack and panniers.

Cons: you'll be able to carry much more with a rack and panniers.

Pros: You can use panniers for shopping when not touring.

depends what the aim of your tour is ....

relax and enjoy your self in comfort....panniers

move from point a to point b quickly and with minimal handling disruption to the bike for tough terrain ..... soft luggage.

i have both and use them as appropriate for different situations.

Bikepacking with a frame bag, bar bag and seatpack will give you ~25 litres of storage.

Conventional F+R panniers and a bar bag could give you ~100 litres.

depends what the aim of your tour is ....

relax and enjoy your self in comfort....panniers

move from point a to point b quickly and with minimal handling disruption to the bike for tough terrain ..... soft luggage.

i have both and use them as appropriate for different situations.

Agreed. We tour for a holiday, not a challenge, so we like to be comfortable. Mrs PP has panniers for her clothes and a bar bag for bits and bobs. I have the same plus I tow a trailer with the camping, sleeping and cooking kit in. We have trimmed the weight and size of some of our kit over the years without compromising on comfort.
i.e. We have a 3 man tent (MSR Holler) which is big enough to sit up in all evening an play cards if the weather is bad. Anything any smaller would be cramped
Horses for courses really. If you're off for a few days off road in the middle of nowhere then frame bags are the answer as the bike will stay more manoeuvrable, but for more time or comfort panniers are the answer.

Packed and moving

[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3896/14372261761_ef470dde57_h.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3896/14372261761_ef470dde57_h.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/nU2AGz ]IMG_3527[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/ ]Peter Atkin[/url], on Flickr

And unpacked...

[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5505/14189149928_e4a263654c_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5505/14189149928_e4a263654c_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/nBR6W1 ]IMG_3849[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/ ]Peter Atkin[/url], on Flickr

The other thing we find absolutely indispensible is a side or centre stand on the bike and a velcro strap to pop round the brake lever as a handbrake. Parking my fully laden outfit is nigh on impossible without those!

[img] [/img]

Last week on skye with big tent.

[img] [/img]

last november on the gaick pass with next to nothing for an overnight on the CG loop.....

[img] [/img]

with just that on - the bike handled like there was nothing on it , was awesome. whereas on skye i knew i was loaded.

You need to figure out what amount of kit & food you want to take with you as that will determine what carrying capacity you need. While it's tempting to add things "just in case" it's usually the case that you never need them. There'll be some kit that you can't do without but over time you'll find that you don't use quite a bit of stuff. I find it useful to list everything you take then when you get back scratch out/delete everything you used: what's left is what you didn't use and was essentially dead weight (first aid kit and repair kit don't count).

It's a balancing act between having enough kit to be comfortable and having too much that bike handling/enjoyment is compromised. While the current fashion is for soft luggage and being all minimalist, it's not for everyone.

Generally the more road oriented your trips then look at panniers, if you are mostly off-road then look more towards soft luggage - man-handling a bike over rough terrain with 50-100 litres of luggage is hard work!

While it's tempting to add things "just in case" it's usually the case that you never need them

We used to make a list - Stuff we took and didn't need plus stuff we needed and didn't take. Then we swapped those items over..... 🙂
We have nothing spare and want for nothing these days!

Someone more famous than me once said ..... You tend to carry your insecurities .....

I fear a shit nights sleep so tend to take a higher rated sleeping bag and mat than needed l...

My mrs fears being cold so takes more clothes .....

Some people fear not being able to fix their bike so carry enough spares/tools to sink the bizzmarck ...

Seen alsorts , met a dutch guy in nz at the bikepackers hostel on the north west coast of south land who had a full size frying pan and a track pump on his trailer + four panniers .....

It depends what you're doing. If you are heading into any sort of off road, even if you're quite happy to get off and push, even one pair of heavily loaded panniers can totally hamper any progress, but will be fine on road.

The more room you have the more stuff you take and have to carry.

I have both panniers and bags but they are for very different jobs. I wouldn't dream of going off road with panniers.

I might use the bags for the road, but that would mean I also need a back pack.

Swings and roundabouts

Fab replies folks - definitely food for thought. Probably going to end up with both, having read through - soft frame bags for when I want a couple of nights adventuring, panniers for when I've got the family in tow!

@Mr Agreeable - nice one! Pretty much sums it up.

@Peterpoddy - Nice rig, i'd kind of forgotten about trailers.

Cheers all! 😀

I tend to go with a bit of a mix of both. I don't want to carry too much, but do want to be able to carry tent. I also want to be be able to take the rig offroad if needed (Salsa Vaya).

I normally go with a bar bag (light things, valuables, easily removed), a fuel tank bag for munchies, half frame bag for tools, spares and other food and a carradice hanging off the seat rails with a tent strapped on top.

I have experimented a fair amount and done both extremes, from 3 weeks cycling to Slovenia towing a trailer with a total bike and kit weight of 52kg, right down to a 2 night trip in the peak district with less the 6kg including food strapped to the bike.

I've now kind of come to a happy medium of a not too minimal bikepacking setup, which I use for most trips, using frame bag ~4l, bar bag (20l), seat pack (13l) top tube bag ~2l, fork bags 5lx2(salsa anything cages) and a 14l backpack, which I find enough even for the longest trips, where I'll have a few changes of clothes, a decent sized tarp and a decent sized pan and cook-set.

This summer I'm planning a 18 day alpine trip with a friend where I think it will push this attitude to it's limit - but I always go with the attitude that worst case scenario you spend a night in a B&B or refuge if needed!

As other have said it depends on what you are doing. ALthough I will say that it is a sliding scale. I've used small rear panniers combined with small rucksack and tent on bars to give me more capacity than "bike packing" set-up but less than a full massive touring set up. Worked fine for off road on Scottish tracks. The extra capacity allowed me to have several nights out without having to resupply. The rougher the route and the faster you wish to travel, the lighter the better, but sometimes its worth going slower or taking a different route.

RE: Family / touring with someone less bike obsessed.
For reference with 4 panniers (2 small two big) plus a small rucksack strapped on back of bike (used as a day sack when off bike). I've comfortably carried. Cooking gear for 2, three man tent, sleeping gear for two, personal clothes (including one set off completly off bike reserver clothes), maps spares e.t.c. Partner just carried her cloths and wash bag. this was very comfy camping and cooking. Mainly on road but easy BW were not too bad. On road the weight was fine most of the time and going uphill traveling due to the weight slow was worth it for the company! Gogin downhill was amazingly fast!

the wife and i do touring for softies. we tour a nice part of the country for 7-10 days, 30-60 miles a day. stay in b n b s or good hotels, eat in the best pubs/cafes or restaurants. we use a 22 litre dry bag each for off bike clothes etc.
light weight makes the cycling easy, and somewhere comfortable to stay each night as she has no interest in spending her holidays in a wet tent !
we have had great fun , using what are now known as 'gravel' bikes !

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiO7-CYg4rMAhWICBoKHW7ADqMQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Friderredux.blogspot.com%2F2007_05_01_archive.html&psig=AFQjCNGUITvnccxSHJYqxdX7jXZGK2n4zQ&ust=1460582293951347
Is that openable?
I have been longing to do that for a while. Bikepacking is touring not some trendy modern expression.

A favourite book as a teenager in the late 70's

[img] [/img]

Show off. How did you do that? From someone who still has a phone with a twirly wire.
My wife tells me I am a shite stirrer for that post.

Interesting, doing a 3 day off road B&B trip next month and was looking at kit earlier tonight. I have a 20l Evoc pack and a Revelate Pika seat bag, so easy to get kit in. Toying with idea of putting it all in backpack meaning I can leave reverb on, rather than swop to a fixed post for the seatpack....

Flip side being spread the weight, let bike carry some rather than my back..

Spreading the weight is good. 3 days with a backpack is bad (though it's B&B so only your toothbrush and nightie?)

Nightie ? - you be wanting to stay that first night then ? 😀

Can't believe Robin is riding so close to the verge in that picture. Has he not heard of Primary?

Whichever route you go down,I think a proper custom made frame bag is one of the best investments you can make. My frame bag takes care of water, tools, waterproofs, lock, snacks, phone, keys and wallet with a bit of room to spare.
Then I generally have one bag for clothes/shelter and one for food/cooking. If I'm bivvying I can get all my kit in the frame bag and on the fork legs in Blackburn cargo cages. For longer tours it's panniers on a front rack.

Nightie ? - you be wanting to stay that first night then ?

One often overlooked point. If you have a down sleeping bag it can be tempting if bikepacking to stuff it in the smallest bag possible, it then takes the whole night to loft properly so you have a cold night but still wake up sweaty.

Unless you have 100l of pannier space, in which case it doesn't really matter if it takes up a whole 20l bag to itself.

One often overlooked point. If you have a down sleeping bag it can be tempting if bikepacking to stuff it in the smallest bag possible, it then takes the whole night to loft properly so you have a cold night but still wake up sweaty.

what down bag you using and are you storing in a propper loft bag. my mrs nordisk's storage bag is woeful and what you describe happens - we use an old pillow now - and is much better.

the one for my northface blue kazoo is ace stores it at full loft... i can pack it down into its smallest form for a day and then itll loft back out to damn near full loft in about 10 minutes.

The major downside to the soft style bikepacking bags is that it makes you realise just how heavy, bulky and inappropriate your existing kit is for bikepacking. Cue N+1 purchases for pretty well everything.

I've now got two tarps; four sleeping mats; four sleeping bags and three bivy bags 🙄

You need more tarps mate!

Maybe a quilt or 2 as well...

Regarding the monster saddle bags - don't you find they waggle about loads? Iv just received my Alpkit equipment. Happy with the frame and bar bags but the under seat tapered dry bag doesn't seem very secure...or am I doing something wrong?

http://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/bearstock.html

Actually I have a Tyvek tarp as well so that's 3 tarps, don't have any of the weird shaped jobbies though. One of the sleeping bags is actually a quilt but I do like the look of the Enlightened Revelation!

@ndthornton The saddle harness/bags do move a bit, my Wildcat Tiger moves a couple of centimetres from side to side but it does depend on how full you stuff and how heavy the contents are. I've got the Alpkit tapered dry bag but haven't used it on its own only as the bag inside the Tiger harness so haven't any tips to pass on to secure it (reasonably) firmly.

Wildcat Tiger

the dry bag alone is pisspoor as a saddlebag to get it on so it doesnt move requires a number of straps - and to get anything out means removing all of said straps.

i have my taperd dry bag in a tiger harness and it doesnt move an inch once sinched down (i pack it with light soft stuff - usually insulated jacket , sleeping mat or bag depending on time of year and my bivvy+ with the added bonus of being easy to pack and unpack when attached to the bike.

The previous gen alpkit harness was renound for coming loose and getting its waggle on , current gen have wider straps but i have not used them.

i still like the alpkit kanga better than the wildcat offering but thats a bike set up thing - my front ends low so a decent size dry bag on and it hits the front tire

I wonder if something homemade would do a similar job- something that bolts securely to the seat rails and provides stability to the narrow end of the dry bag...anyone done this?

A couple (maybe more) of the US manufacturers do a seat bag/harness that attaches to the seat post and saddle rails with straps but also has a lower beam (for want of a better word) that clamps lower down on the seat post, I might have posted this link earlier - http://bikepackersmagazine.com/porcelain-rocket-mr-fusion-review/ is one example. $185 though!

I remember seeing one review that mentioned something similar to what you describe, some sort of plastic bracket that clamped to the seat rails that had "wings" angling down to help stabilise the bag.

It's all a compromise between weight, stability and practicality. Different people will prioritise different things. Currently for me, the Wildcat Tiger is the least worst option, I'm not carrying enough weight or bulk in the seat bag to justify something like the above.

There are 2 systems that I like the look of and have been considering to replace my Wildcat (I want a little more space).

The [url= http://www.bedrockbags.com/cockpit-bags/ ]bedrock coconino[/url] has a bracket on the saddle rails.

Porcelin rocket [url= http://www.porcelainrocket.com/product/mr-fusion-seat-system/ ]Mr Fusion[/url] has a rail attached to the seatpost. Good for shoving extra stuff between the rail and dry bag, not cheap though.

what down bag you using and are you storing in a propper loft bag. my mrs nordisk's storage bag is woeful and what you describe happens - we use an old pillow now - and is much better.

the one for my northface blue kazoo is ace stores it at full loft... i can pack it down into its smallest form for a day and then itll loft back out to damn near full loft in about 10 minutes.

An old one (Dragon mountain equipment), spends most of it's life un-packed in the loft for this reason.

Regarding the monster saddle bags - don't you find they waggle about loads? Iv just received my Alpkit equipment. Happy with the frame and bar bags but the under seat tapered dry bag doesn't seem very secure...or am I doing something wrong?

Mine wobbles, the trick is to pack it very light (sleeping bag, jacket etc), or very stiff (roll mat).

But TBH, I've never noticed it whilst riding, it just looks odd.

Never had it come loose though.

something that bolts securely to the seat rails and provides stability to the narrow end of the dry bag...anyone done this?

I've used the frame of a moots tailgator before as an experiment,

[img] [/img]
now have a wildcat tiger that mounts really securely, much more so than most packs. Helps if you don't overload the seatpack also, some of them are huge, filled with down clothing they're fine but filled with heavy kit they do seem to move a lot. Not that much of an issue when riding but I've worn through a set of seat rail straps before. PITA if that happens mid-ride.

I just use an £18 tapered 13l Airlok and it is rock solid.

Tent poles add a bit more rigidity I suppose, but they're not needed.

The key is to get a strap joining each side of the closed opening around the seatpost. similar pic on the product page on Alpkit's website.

[img] [/img]

tapered 13l Airlok

closed opening

He means the roll-top closure at the opposite end to the tapered bit. Instead of clipping the two parts of that buckle together you clip one of the straps in there and wrap that around the seat post and cinch it up. Look at the second image from the "More images" bit here: https://www.alpkit.com/products/airlok-xtra-tapered

oh yes I did that - still felt wobbly and needed 4 hands to strap it all together.
Maybe not too bad while riding?

It's all the same thing if you ask me. And it's really just a case of deciding what you want to take on a particular trip and then deciding how you are going to carry it all. (top tip, what ever you do, it's not on your back, I think we've all been there! 😆 )