Beginner with aspirations - Hardtail or FS?

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Beginner with aspirations - Hardtail or FS?

43 posts & 33 voices | Started 2 years ago by JonnyP | Latest reply from rusty trowel

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JonnyP - Member

Evening all - first post so hi and hope not too newbie.

Having messed around on bikes as a kid and ridden a boneshaker everyday whilst at uni I've had a 8 year hiatus including gut spread and a total loss of fitness. Recently moved out of London got the idea that mountain biking should get me provide exploration, adrenaline and a good workout. I'm now stuck at bike choice.

Budget is c.£1000 but limited more by common sense - I dont want a shiny toy to only not take to it. Inclined to spend a bit less and was thinking a half decent hardtail may save a bit of cash now whilst I get fitter and then drop more on an FS next year if I really take to it. However there's always the curveball of a boardman comp fs (£799) which seems well specced and light for the cost and may open up more options rather than looking to add another bike next year?

On the hardtail front I've been looking at a merlin malt 1/2 or at a kona kula (£635 @ wiggle). A mate also has the Kula and I think decent weight and spec, cost saving over the boardman fs and also good bed to test/hone my skills and get fit.

So will the kula hinder me compared to the FS and if so will the benefits in fitness / skill overide this. Any recomendation on the Malt over a Kula or other options (frame sizes too please I'm 5'8 with a 29 inside leg)

Based in Farnham so will be riding local trails, bridleways etc often with the odd jaunt to leith hill etc when skills improve.

The more I research the more confused I get - help please! Cheers in advance

JP

Posted 2 years ago #
Ringo - Member

Go with the hardtail definitely.

Posted 2 years ago #
igm - Member

Rent a couple of bikes and see what you like

Posted 2 years ago #
Kramer - Member

Hardtails are good to learn on, full suss lets you get away with bad habits. Full suss are more comfortable for longer rides. For the price you're looking at, generally a hardtail will have a slightly better spec than a full suss.

The Boardman is meant to be good, but the rear shock needs quite a lot of fettling, which may be difficult for a newbie.

It also depends on where you want to ride it, if you want to take it to the Alps, then as a beginner you'd struggle on a hard tail, then again, you'd probably want more travel than the Boardman gives you.

I learnt on a hardtail, now I ride a full suss.

Posted 2 years ago #
lardman - Member

Nah, hardtail it is. Better bike control if you start on one of those, and in a year or so, you'll have a much better idea of what kind of FS you'll want. Big travel trail bike, or racy cross country flier.

Spend any extra on good winter gloves, tyres, and clothing. You will have more fun, dry, and warm on a cheap bike than the other way round.

Posted 2 years ago #
neilsonwheels - Member

Learn on a hardtail. If you get into it in a big way and want a shiney toy later on go with the full sus. You will get a much better bike for your money going down the hardtail route. An off the peg one will get you more "bang for your buck" as well.

As above as well. Spend the extra pennies on riding gear. And cake.

Posted 2 years ago #
carlosg - Member

I learnt on a hardtail, now I ride a full suss

I did it the other way round ,initially I borrowed mates spare bikes but my 1st proper mtb was a susser and I mainly ride HT now . I'd get the HT to start with ,hone your handling skills and if after trying a few you think FS would suit you more then change.

Posted 2 years ago #
mboy - Member

Get a hardtail, get used to riding again. Then think about a full sus in a year or 2, IF you take to riding again.

Focus more on a bike to suit your needs, and where you ride, rather than just what's shiniest, or the one that has an XT rear mech... Personally, I'd suggest the Genesis Bikes range... Either the steel "Altitude" or the ally "Core". I can't reccomend the Altitude enough as an all day trail bike with brilliant handling, an exciting ride, yet its forgiving enough to ride for a long time (something that most hardtails aren't IMO).

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain/altitude/
http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain/core/

Better to spend the money on the frame and forks as these are the key components, and everything else is much easier to upgrade. With this in mind, and your £1000 budget (which to be fair, I'd probably spend all of it, but that's me), I'd go for a Genesis Altitude 10...

Whatever you get though, welcome back, have fun, and see you out there on the trails perhaps!

[edit] Just seen that Kona Kula on Wiggle, and at 35% off RRP it's a fair sized bargain if they've got one in your size actually! [/edit]

Posted 2 years ago #
genghispod - Member

Pretty much answered your own question there fella! HT for honing skills, lower investment, less maintenance, lighter, cheaper to run. Get one with some descending genes built into it and you'll keep up with most FS's.

There again what do I know I've never ridden a full suss, but I've never felt the need. Plus there's nothing worse than seeing a grown man mincing down a hill on a FS when you can rinse it on a HT, sadly they're always behind you so you never get the chance to tear past them and demonstrate your skills. Or they pass you uphill and you never see them again.

HT = man's bike. Rigid SS if you're proper hard (not for me).

Posted 2 years ago #
warton - Member

I would start with a hardtail, for the reasons above, but also as a hardtail is easier to learn how to maintain. If you learn to fix it yourself you'll save a fortune, and a FS can be very daunting (it was to me anyway)

But more than that, HTs are great to learn on, picking lines, getting technique dialled, and its easier to get up hills! a grand full suss will be very heavy...

But after all that, ride a few and see what you think.
welcome aboard!

Posted 2 years ago #
buzz-lightyear - Member

Hardtail: Lower initial investment, loads of bargains, loads of fun. Thrash and tinker with it for 1-2 years to work out your style and preferences. Then spunk on what you want to ride for the following 3-5 years. The initial HT will then either become a backup/winter off-roader or get commuter-ised.

It is the way and the path Grasshopper...

Posted 2 years ago #
nicko74 - Member

Personally I'd also say hardtail - if only to build up the skills, get a feel for it and work out whether you want to shell out thousands on something more. I did, stuck with hardtails, but just got more expensive ones!

I'd also strongly favour the Kona myself. My first 'proper' bike (after a £300 GT and a secondhand Rockhopper) was a Kona Pahoehoe from 2001, which was at the time a step down from the Kula. The geometry was absolutely spot on and infectious - the classic sloping top tube gives you bags of space when your balls aren't as big as the gully you're going down, while bunging the saddle up takes you all over the place. The spec is also generally pretty good, and offers scope for upgrading later if you want.

Posted 2 years ago #
jonb - Member

My first bike was from Merlin. They are good bikes. Mine served me well for numerous years. Good build quality, good spec, hand built wheels that will last. Off the peg bikes tend to hide cheaper components where people don't look, unfortunately these are places that are actually important, BB, hubs headset etc.

You'll get a lot of bike if you spend a grand at merlin. I'd get the Malt 2 and upgrade the forks to the recon and the groupset to SLX (it's worth it over Deore). That's £855 leaving money to put towards pedals, helmet, lycra (to go on it's own or under baggies), a multitool, hydration pack, jacket, pump and a few tubes...

Posted 2 years ago #
JonnyP - Member

whew cheers guys,

17 minutes in and a raft of useful responses....thanks very much.

Yeah the hardtail route makes sense and will probs be the way I go. Makes more sense to acquire the skills and passion rather than being all the gear no idea (have had thoughts of sacking the budget and just splurging on some shiney FS beast that I patently have no need for!).

On the hardtail front any recommendations for other options I should be looking at (other than the Kula and genesis mentioned above)? Local rides will be road to bridleway to tracks on plains and forest so roots, sand and a few rocks. Few short sharp climbs rather than marathon ascents.

thanks again

Posted 2 years ago #
davidtaylforth - Member

I'd get some sort of steel hardtail with a shortish stem, widish bars and 100mm ish travel forks. Cotic Soul/Dialled Bikes PA/On One 456 or similar.

Cheaper, less to maintain, less to worry about and more fun (maybe)

Unless your racing dh, you only need full sus if your lazy/dont have bike handling skills/want a more comfortable ride. It definitely isnt necessary.

Posted 2 years ago #
takisawa2 - Member

If I had to buy an entry level bike now, after trying a good few HT/FS over the years it would be one of these...
CLICK

Posted 2 years ago #
mtbtomo - Member

Fettling the shock on a full suss like the Boardman won't be that difficult, just a matter of trying different air pressures.

The Boardman is sub 30lb so it won't feel like a total pig uphill and it will help you keep up with more experienced bikers downhill. There's a bit of a stigma about low priced full suss but I think the Boardman bucks the trend and is excellent value. Its a fairly standard Horst link affair and the same frame as the more expensive models so well worthy of a bit of upgrading.

That's what I'd buy. People on this forum like their hardtails

Posted 2 years ago #
JonnyP - Member

urgh don't say that just when the weight of opinion had me convinced hardtail was the way forward.

That was my thinking....I know the boardman aint a big hitter but is it going to get me into and, more importantly, out of the kind of scrapes that I aspire to when, as a newbie, I'll back off on the hardtail?

Posted 2 years ago #
HTTP404 - Member

I live on the North Downs and never quite justified a FS. I cope admirably with a HT. However, you may want an FS. And tbh the Boardman Comp looks a really good spec. for the price.
(as with all the boardman range and merlin too)
The Kula on wiggle is the lowest spec. kula. ie not the high end scandium framed one. The parts are interspersed with high and low(er) end. And as expected kona own brand. This for me kind of typifies Kona. Should be better but isn't.
I like the look of the altitude.

Posted 2 years ago #
mboy - Member

Local rides will be road to bridleway to tracks on plains and forest so roots, sand and a few rocks. Few short sharp climbs rather than marathon ascents.

That was my thinking....I know the boardman aint a big hitter but is it going to get me into and, more importantly, out of the kind of scrapes that I aspire to when, as a newbie, I'll back off on the hardtail?

Sounds like for the kind of riding you're going to be doing, you'd wish you bought a hardtail if you buy a full sus! Don't get me wrong, I love full sus bikes, I've had loads (and have a long travel one now), but for just getting out and getting some miles covered offroad, on not mega tough or technical terrain, a hardtail wins hands down. It's lighter, it's simpler, and you're getting more for your money.

Posted 2 years ago #
soobalias - Member

... you are getting more for your money

Posted 2 years ago #
MikeWW - Member

Having gone through more bikes in the last 18 months than I care to think about I'd say go with the hard tail. I went Carrera Vulcan(hardtail), Giant Trance(full suss), Marin Mount Vision(full suss), Genesis IO(fully rigid single speed) and am now building a hard tail. The truth is that unless you are into full on downhill stuff you can get down anything on anything and have fun.
have just bought a Cube Reaction for one of my lads and really impressed at what you can get for just over your budget. Really decent XT kit, Fox forks, good rimes/tyres. I reckon the Cubes are really good VFM

Posted 2 years ago #
Alb - Member

I'll second the Genesis Altitude - cracking bike!

Posted 2 years ago #
muddydwarf - Member

Two of my mates - new to riding - have just bought CUBE hardtails from CRC.
Absolutely cracking value for the money (especially if you buy the 2009 discounted models) went over them both and couldn't find a poor quality part on either of them. Really nice fram geometry, handle well, accelerate like a rocket and hung with lots of good quality kit - you can't lose.

Seriously, i haven't seen any other manufacturer give as good value as CUBE at the moment.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=30535

Plus it looks good!

Posted 2 years ago #
buzz-lightyear - Member

The Cube is awesome value at <£800 - Reba, XT, SLX, Schwalbe! Quality German brand too.

Posted 2 years ago #
GavinB - Member

Ridden loads of full sussers and hardtails, so would add that the neither will 'teach' you the skills. Especially as you are returning to riding, the best investment would be some skills training. It'll be a far better investment than paying an extra £100 to get a bike with XT/Reba/whatever.

Forget all this 'only real men ride hard tails/full sussers make you lazy' argument. Hardtails will force you to take different lines, and you will inevitably go slower than on a FS. You may even crash a few more times as you learn, and sometimes those crashes may be enough to put you off riding for a while. Vice-versa - FS will make technical climbing easier, but you may find yourself riding too fast into situations that your current skill level cannot handle.

So, above all, I'd recommend you get some training.

Posted 2 years ago #
Trimix - Member

Get a FS. Learn on that and you wont waste time learning on a HT then haveing to learn again when you change to FS. Eaiser, smoother, faster XC and DH.

If I started again Id go stright for a FS.

Posted 2 years ago #
enfht - Member

I'd say go for a HT but nothing too racey, go for something more slack otherwise you may not warm to your new hobby. I was in your boots 16 months back and eventually settled on a P7 with the fox upgrade, I'm certain I made the right choice. Get ready to see all that excess weight fall off! Good luck and enjoy.

Posted 2 years ago #
davidtaylforth - Member

So, above all, I'd recommend you get some training.

Is this a joke or are you being serious?

Posted 2 years ago #
Olly - Member

Hard tail for sure.

ideally both, neither is better, and neither is more fun i wouldnt say, they are just different

4-5" tall FS for all day riding

5-6" short and stumpy hard tail for short blasting and dicking about

i love my trance, but if i had all my bikes nicked tommorow, i know exactly what i would get, i wouldnt have to think for a second.

cotic soul
426 revelations
XT groupset and brakes
Hope bearings (hubs, bb and headset)

i would suggest you want more bang for your buck....

in my opinion, you get less from speccy and kona etc, per pound, than you do from giant, and boardman.

i only got my FS cause i was getting the crap beaten out of me in the peaks and the lakes, i would say most of England, and ALL of Wales is HT territory.

Posted 2 years ago #
PJM1974 - Member

I'd err towards a hardtail too. Although the Boardman looks good for the money, an FS will always mean more weight, more maintenance and demand less skill to get the best out of it, which isn't necessarily right for a beginner.

Don't worry about getting anything too flash, personally I can highly recommend Merlin's Malt bikes but you may find that a mass market brand with a no quibble warranty and a good rep for customer service gives you greater peace of mind.

If it were my £1k I'd be looking at either the Merlin (I'm biased, I bought one for the g/f) or a Specialized Rockhopper.

Posted 2 years ago #
bent_udder - Member

Have you got sizing sorted out? Buying of t'internet is all well and good, but if you're getting back into the sport, the support of a good shop will be worth the extra you might have to spend there. They can advise on pricing, provide general advice, and fix little problems as they come up - possibly for free.

I don't live in Farnham, so don't know the shops there. I'd also recommend a hardtail -you will get more bang for your buck that way. Don't forget to factor in the cost of kit - a lid, gloves and shorts are a good place to start. Hope that helps!

Posted 2 years ago #
snowslave - Member

£1k will buy a very good hardtail. Any full susser at this price is in the bargain basement price range. There is nothing you'll ride that can't be ridden on a hardtail, and you'll learn technique better on a hardtail anyway. I'd not even think about anything other than a hardtail.

Re what type of bike, your first proper bike will get a lot of abuse, things will break. You'll benefit from the support of a friendly local bike shop, who ideally will organise local rides and put you in touch with local riders. If they're any good, they'll let you try bikes for size, and advise on the relative benefits/drawbacks of different types of frame set up etc.

You'll get better prices/bikes on the tinternet probably, but the support of a lbs whilst you're new is probably far more important?

Posted 2 years ago #
snowslave - Member

Ooops! aka like bent_udder ses....

Posted 2 years ago #
juan - Member

ok you have your anwser... It's HT... so now before everyone one start saying how great his/hers bike is and how you should buy the same... RUNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I second the lbs comment. Who else is better qualified than a LBS to point you towards the correct bike for your needs

Posted 2 years ago #

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