I have Miche GTRX wheels on one of my road bikes, which I know are pretty much bottom of the range, and so it could be said that almost anything would be an improvement.

My birthday is coming up, though, and I suspect I will end up getting some money with which to buy something… which to me means ‘new wheels’.

I’ve been looking at Wiggle and CRC and Ebay, and sort of thinking along the lines of £500-ish, but at what point would new wheels really start to make a difference?

I mean, would the Campagnolo Khamsin wheelset make much of a difference at the £135 mark? And whether or not it does, is there going to be much difference between these, and, say, the Zondas at £340 other than a few grams?

At the end of the day, do you have any suggestions? I would think that £500 would be my maximum, but I would be equally happy to get something that is going to be good/efficient/light-ish/strong/respectable/attractive/ for less.

The same people beat me or don’t beat me up hills and in sprints whever they are on old clunkers with cheapo wheels or fancy carbon do da stuff.

You may look at your bike and feel better about it though.

Try better tyres first. Cheaper upgrade, and yet so noticeable!

Skinwall, cotton open tubs, of course.

Skinwall tyres are 45.87% better. Science fact.

Ooo a semi-sensible answer…

Assuming those Miche’s are over 2kg a pair, if you go for something ~1.5kg I pair you’ll notice a difference particularly if you use light tyres and tubes.

Something like Kinesis Crosslight CX disc or the Hunts & Mason Race Aero plus Schwalbe One’s or Conti Grand Prix 4000’s and Supersonic tubes.

You may not be faster, you may get over taken/over take the same people but you should feel the lightererness…

The thing with upgrades (I find) is you only notice them a few times and then it becomes ‘normal,’

However, the one thing I really notice when putting my bad wheels back on is the slow engagement, much more so than the weight increase. So I would prioritise faster engaging hubs over absolute weight. Guess would depend on riding style and useage though

I’ve come across a few posts recently where Hunt wheels are being raved about, for example a non-disc set…

HUNT Race Aero Wide Wheelset

£419, that’s more than the default cost of my Wazoo until midnight tonight! 😯

But significantly less than the bike and all the upgrades I’ve bought over the last year. 😳

Last autumn, some road users were going potty over the £100 Superstar Paves, I’ve never weighed the wheels on my Felt F5C but I suspect the Paves would be lighter.

Invest in decent tyres, even better if rims are tubeless as that’ll reduce rolling resistance.

Shimano RS81, 1600g, pair them with some good tyres (Veloflex Master, Vittoria Open Corsa) and some nice tubes.

Ive got Campagnolo Khamsin Asymmetric G3 wheels on my giant and think there brilliant! Never ridden anything better but don’t feel like they are the limiting factor in my riding

It depends on where you start from and where you want to go.

Going from a low level heavy set of wheels to a top end carbon wheel will be a massive difference and cost. You can make significant gains at thel ow end if your wheel is particularly bad right now. At the high end you can spend a lot for not a lot of gain.

I couldn’t find your existing wheels in a quick google search. Assuming they are around the £150 mark then you would notice a difference switching to something between £3-400 in my experience of moving from Aksiums to RS80s.

Few people to consider. Hunt as a above. Spokesman. Cero AR30s. COsine on wiggle. You should be able to get an aluminium set for <1600g for that price.

Also budget in some decent tyres. Always been a fan of 25mm GP4000s for long rides and racing. Good compromise between grip, weight and longevity.

I suspect you could get your LBS to build you a lovely set of wheels for £500.

Coming from cheap, heavy, entry level wheels anything will be an upgrade, but I’d be looking in the £250-350 bracket for a worthwhile upgrade. Although if you’ve got the cash, either the RS81’s or the Hunts linked above will be great.

Campagnolo Khamsin

Almost 2kg wheels!

Those RS81 look a good deal. Are the hubs the new tool free cup and cone ones? Do like Shimano hubs but they do need looking after as if you get a bit of contamination in there and the cup gets damaged before you service them then they’re in the bin (I’ve had this happen unfortunately.) If it’s year round riding i’d get some cartridge bearing hubs.

I got some handbuilts priced up the other day from DCR wheels. I think it was about 450 quid for his DCR rims and hubs. Under 1400g, stainless cartridge bearings, CXRay spokes, wide tubeless rims. Nice all rounder training wheels. And all the parts are easily serviceable too, no funny proprietary bits that’d be a PITA to get hold of. I’d get these over the Hunt or JRA ones.

You’ll definitely notice a difference if you get the wheels down to about 1500g. But the significance of the difference will depend where you ride. If you ride mostly flattish routes then a heavier, more aero wheelset will offer greater benefits. If you like climbing then lighter is definitely better. I ride quite a bit in the Alps, Dolomites, Pyrenees, etc and saving 100g a wheel on those long climbs makes a very noticeable difference as to how much I enjoy the climb (and I love climbing!). The other thing to consider is that not all 1500g wheels are equal. Lateral flex is the bane of lighter wheels and some are much worse than others. Long climbs out of the saddle with the rear rim constantly rubbing your brake pads will drive you mental.

Over the years I’ve had several wheels in the 1400-1500g weight area and they all felt very different. DT Swiss – very smooth ride but too flexy and unnerving in fast corners. Easton – much firmer with great handling but terrible design and constant freehub failures. Mavic – best compromise of ride and handling and although the freehubs fail after 2-3000 miles, they’re easy to replace. They do flex enough to rub against brake blocks but not so much that it’s too annoying. You can usually find a pair on offer somewhere.

Try better tyres first. Cheaper upgrade, and yet so noticeable!

Skinwall, cotton open tubs, of course.

This is good advice – buy a pair of Veloflex Open Corsas at around £54 a pair from Wiggle or Ribble and be blown away by the grip and comfort, especially the wet weather grip.

That would be the cheapest and most noticeable upgrade you could make to the bike.

After that, upgrade the wheels and go for the stiffest you can buy. There’s a noticeable difference even between Mavic’s entry-level Ksyriums and their SLS, the stronger materials used mean greater spoke tensions and a stiffer wheel overall and you really notice that in the handling and climbing. The bike will feel sharper and more direct in its handling.

If you just want light the loads of choice at the cheaper end.

If you want lighter, deeper and wider then you can certainly get that in your budget.

The Hunt wheels are a good place to start though but also take a look at Just Riding Along and some of the independent wheel builders as there are a fair few that do very good road wheels.

Try better tyres first. Cheaper upgrade, and yet so noticeable!

This too. Don’t forget the tubes either, nice latex ones in a supple tyre make a big difference over thick heavy butyl ones.

Just Riding Along

If this option I’d wait a few weeks. The SL23 rim has been discontinued and there’s a new Forza rim replacing it. I’d expect JRA to start using this rim. It’ll build a better wheel with an asymmetric option for the rear.

Last autumn, some road users were going potty over the £100 Superstar Paves, I’ve never weighed the wheels on my Felt F5C but I suspect the Paves would be lighter

Sorry to say it but Superstar wheels, although amazingly light and cheap, are not strong. Of course somebody will come along soon and contradict this but my son and my buddy both bought Superstar wheels and loved them but both bent rims quite soon and the wheels are hanging up in the shed now.

Edit: ….and yes, buy some Veloflex or Vittoria open corsas and get some latex inners – you’ll love the ride.

There’s more BS about wheels on bikes than pretty much anything else. Weight of a wheel is worth 2x that saved on the frame, etc. Weight isn’t the important thing, it’s where the weight is and why, what your priority is, etc.

Personally I’d look past price, brands and wheelsets and just get the right hub and rim combo assembled by an experienced wheel builder. Many good branded wheelsets are simply that, pre-packaged and presented well. The build quality is hidden yet the most important part imo. Make sure you can get spare spokes etc.

I got some wheels from Just Riding Along and they have proven their value over the years. Well built / tensioned from the start as they’ve stayed that way. There are many others who build good wheels, just ask around.

What about Hope Hoops?

Good quality re-buildable hubs paired with either Mavic or Stans Alpha rims – should be able to pick up a pair for around £350.

Good quality re-buildable hubs paired with either Mavic or Stans Alpha rims

I’d use their hubs but I’d not go Open Pro or Alpha for rims. Had some Open Pro and they are quite narrow, wider rims just give a better profile with 25mm tyres. Very noticeable going from an Open Pro to something like an Archetype. And read enough about the Alpha being a bit flimsy and a PITA to get tyres on to put me off.

Good advice so far except the Vitoria Corsa tyres. They are sh#t in the wet. Much better with Conti GP4000 version 2. Yes wider rims better at least 17 and run 25mm tyres or bigger without the light bulb effect. Go either handbuilt or quality factory wheels. You will notice a big difference. Pick up is important to me so the old 4 pawl freehub where it seems you wait half a turn to engage is best avoided. The new Mavis’s have improved pick up/engagement. Handbuilts best for ease of maintenance Factory best for bling factor.

Never tried the old Corsa. The new ones are meant to be good though.

GP4000 is what I run through the winter.

Best advice here is to speak to a good wheelbuilder. I recommend Spokesman.

Good advice so far except the Vitoria Corsa tyres. They are sh#t in the wet. Much better with Conti GP4000 version 2

Odd how people can have completely conflicting views about something identical. I really dislike Conti tyres and have never understood the infatuation with GP4000’s. I do however love Vittoria tyres, the Corsa’s both new and old a awesome tyres in dry and wet.

Is there any data on the benefits of lighter wheels (assuming the total bike weight remains the same)?

I’ve never liked the look of Conti tyres, for a start they don’t do skinwall! However I’ve yet to find anything that rolls as well, lasts as long and gives as much comfort as the GP4000’s. I’m currently running Pro Ones, the new graphene Corsa’s and GP4000’s and the Conti’s feel so much nicer than all the others.

Wheel wise after asking on here I went for a set of Fulcrum racing 3’s. Not the flashiest wheels to look at but a noticeable improvement over the Aksiums that were previously on that bike. I’ve had some nice wheels in the past (Zipp 404’s, Lightweights, Vision Metrons) and have always found the tyres make a much bigger difference than the wheels. I’ve got the bottom end Ksyrium disc wheels with GP4000’s in 28mm, and a set of the higher end Hunts with Pro ones in 28mm set up tubeless – the Ksyriums feel so much nicer and I’m convinced it’s not the wheels.

Is there any data on the benefits of lighter wheels (assuming the total bike weight remains the same)?

Have a look here for physics of a spinning wheel… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel#Physics

Moment of inertia is proportional to mass. So heavier wheel has a greater moment of inertia, which is a measure of resistance to torque applied.

Once up to speed though a heavier wheel will store more kinetic energy than a lighter one and be slower to decelerate.

I just went from reasonably light Planet-X model B’s to Shimano RS81 C24’s on my Roubaix, which are quite a bit lighter. I did notice a difference on my first ride so far with them fitted, although it’d difficult to quantify how much. I’ve made a lot of changes to the bike recently as well (complete drivetrain, bars, seatpost, saddle, wheels, tyres) which add up to a wait saving of about 2lbs so it’s also difficult to separate how much of the improvement is just the wheels.

Also got a set of those RS81 C35’s that Wiggle are selling sitting in a box in my spare room at the moment – although as they’re a birthday present from my wife I won’t be getting to use them until next week. They’re a bit heavier than the C24’s (although still lighter than my Model-B’s were) but a bit more aero.

Is there any data on the benefits of lighter wheels

Probably. As above, lighter rims have lower inertia, that’s all.

That’s what I think most people feel when riding out on a new light wheelset, then wrongly translate it to ‘they’re faster’. They may pick up to a speed initially with a fraction less input but they’ll also lose that speed more easily, lower inertia again. That pick-up gets mixed with rider<>bike feedback and it may egg you on to go faster by rewarding input with a nicer response feel, but I wouldn’t say the wheels are faster in themselves.

If you save 200g you have 200g less to carry uphill, ie minimal real difference, sure why carry it if there’s no gain in durability or aero etc but it does get blown out of proportion imo.

“better” is not about price alone. Folk seem to spend silly money on them without thinking what the benefits might be.

It’s about either weight, which will feel better, but make little difference, or aero, which will make you a teeny bit faster, but you won’t feel it (you may kid yourself you can though), ability to go tubeless if you believe that’s a benefit. Don’t forget strength and durability (eg carbon rims with alloy braking surfaces are known to wear quickly).

I have lightish wheels (1600gm) rather than aero, cos it feels nice and I rarely race, I do run tubeless.

Wide rims are a crock too (within reason), the pressures aren’t low enough for this to matter, and the change to the profile makes **** all difference too. But many get sucked in by the marketing.

However I’ve yet to find anything that rolls as well, lasts as long and gives as much comfort as the GP4000’s. I’m currently running Pro Ones, the new graphene Corsa’s and GP4000’s and the Conti’s feel so much nicer than all the others.

Weird. I agree that the One’s are not as nice but for my (vastly untrained) feelings, Veloflex Masters, Vittoria Corsa (graphene and the old style) walk all over them for speed and grip. I quite fancy trying a pair of Spec Turbo’s next, heard very good things about them and the cotton version even has a pimp skinwall.

I’m trying the Spec S-Work Turbo’s in their 24mm size at the moment – only did one ride with them on so-far but they seemed good to me. I’m thinking about getting a set of them in 26mm as well.

epicsteve, how do they size up? or to translate, would a a bike that runs 25’s comfortably be fine with 26’s?

Turbo’s next, heard very good things about them and the cotton version even has a pimp skinwall.

Ha – I’m thinking the same thing. Was fondling some in Evans the other day, thinking I may just bin off the Ones and get those. I flippin HATE the ones, they’re crap in the wet, wear badly and feel dull, and its not like I’ve got a duff set having them in both 25mm and 28mm. I’ve also yet to try Veloflex as they’re not as easy to get hold of. Do look pimp though.

epicsteve, how do they size up? or to translate, would a a bike that runs 25’s comfortably be fine with 26’s?

I’ve not got the 26’s yet but the 24’s are narrower than the 25mm Conti Gatorskins so I’m expecting that there probably won’t be much difference between the Spec 26’s and the Conti 25’s. My Roubaix has decent clearance so I’m not expecting a problem – I was tempted to go with Conti 28mm’s but I think those can be a minor issue with brake clearance when changing wheels, which I’d rather avoid.

Interesting tyre debate. My experience of Vitoria Corsas (addmitedly tubs not clinchers) is slippage up hills especially out of the saddle. Fine in the dry in fact I use them on time trials where I’m always looking to be smooth with the power. In road races in the wet they give me no confidence.

I’ve just ordered a set of the new Conti force and attack version 3 clinchers from Germany. Word is they’re faster than the Specialized turbo cotton. The Conti black chilli seems to work very well for me but each to their own.

I’ve just ordered a set of the new Conti force and attack version 3 clinchers from Germany. Word is they’re faster than the Specialized turbo cotton. The Conti black chilli seems to work very well for me but each to their own.

Turbo cottons are skinwall though.

🙂

I’ve just ordered a set of the new Conti force and attack version 3 clinchers from Germany. Word is they’re faster than the Specialized turbo cotton. The Conti black chilli seems to work very well for me but each to their own.

Damn it! Just when I’d made my mind up…

Just when I’d made my mind up…

See above.