At what point does it become a motorbike?

Nicolai Ion20-Eboxx
Electric motor and intgral gearbox and 7″ suspension travel

Its not really a pushbike anymore is it? As these become bigger and faster, is there going to be legislation to class them at least as mopeds?

There is a legal definition. IIRC If the assistance only works up to 15 mph its an electrically assisted bicycle and counts as a bicycle. if the assistance works above 15 mph its a moped unless it goes above 35 mph when its a motorcycle

at a risk of sounding simple.

when it has a motor?

*shouts in the general Leeds direction

TON – HAVE YOU SEEN THIS?

I guess it already is a moped?

I can see the appeal, it’s essentialy a very light, zero emissions*, silent enduro bike.

*at point of use

Seeing as the main gripes with MX/enduro bikes is the noise/erosion, something that matches the average weekend warriors for speed/power isn’t going to upset too may people?

At what point does it become a motorbike?

when it has a motor?

There you go

That’s not really a ‘getting-from-A-to-B’ electric assist is it??? That’s ‘get-me-to-the-top-of-the-hill-again-while-I-have-a-puff-on-a-tab’ electric assist. Will it lead to range-anxiety for the all-mountain crowd…..? 😉

IIRC actualy wasnt there a guy who broke his back and bought a quadcycle with a tiny engine to use on MTB trails?

Obviously he had very specific circumstances which get sympathy from ramblers/landowners he may meet.

Playing devil’s advocate a bit here, i think Gearbox developments, and -bikes, are great.

My worry is that if the assistance is good for 15mph, a strong rider will be able to get it up to plus 30mph on the flat easy, and being a DH bike, 60mph downhill is quite possible. Yet being a pushbike, there’s no requirement for a speedo but it’ll weigh quite a bit so could easily take out dear granny crossing the road.
I know a strong rider will be able to reach similar speeds unassisted, but that’s without the added weight of a motor and batteries its potentially quite dangerous.

Is legislation likely to change?

*googles “contact us” on dailymail.co.uk….

14.3kg frame only! 😯

irbandito – the electric assist should cut out above 15 mph for it to remain a bicycle. So all that happens is you zoom straight upto 15 mph on the flat or a climb and stay there

My worry is that if the assistance is good for 15mph, a strong rider will be able to get it up to plus 30mph on the flat easy, and being a DH bike, 60mph downhill is quite possible.

I’ve wondered this as well – I guy I see on my commute has an electric-assist front wheel on an old Marin. He’s clearly got a bit a of fitness and will hapilly cruise along the flat at or above 25 mph, keeping pace with the mopeds/scooters.

EDIT: TJ – interesting….but surely it’s not beyond someone in possesion of a pair of pliers to simply wire a switch between the motor and battery and bypass the limtier, as my ‘friend’ above seems to have done.

it’d make the climbs at trail centres much more fun…

That thing could get very interesting if they can figure out a way for it to charge up on braking energy….

I used to think WTF but now I can really see the appeal of self powered free uplifts.

if they can find a place for KERS in snowboards, surely somebody ahs already thought of that for the bike world?

http://www.snowboard-review.com/snowboard_reviews/review/force_i_kers/

it’d make the climbs at trail centres much more fun

I get the impression that’s what the bike is about, to enable you to ride big fat DH bike back up to the top. “Self-shuttling”, which sounds like a deviant activity.

Shame it’ll only ever be ridden around Richmond Park, knocking over grannies and small children…

EDIT: TJ – interesting….but surely it’s not beyond someone in possesion of a pair of pliers to simply wire a switch between the motor and battery and bypass the limtier, as my ‘friend’ above seems to have done.

That’s always [in a manner of speaking] been done anyway with speed restricted vehicles

So all that happens is you zoom straight upto 15 mph on the flat or a climb and stay there

Surely it allows you to put all your energy into riding at +15mph. So if you could normally ride a tank of a biek at 10mph on the flat, this means in theory you should be able to do 25mph.

Agree about the regenerative power, can’t be long till that’s more common
(Bionx[/url] do)

#
honourablegeorge – Member

That thing could get very interesting if they can figure out a way for it to charge up on braking energy….
Posted 7 minutes ago # Report-Post

Already done on some electric bikes – regenerative brakin

LOOK OUT GRANNIES!

4500 watts, 50mph!
http://stealthelectricbikesunitedkingdom.com/bomber.html

Looks like fun.

in fact at a venue like say triscombe that would be ace. 1-2 min DH runs. easy fireroad back to the top.

at an average cost of £25-30 for an uplift it could make financial sense…

Depends on the setup but a bike with a bb motor can often be made to assist above 15 mph by raising the final drive gearing

Self shutteling?

Yea, but it’s 25lb more than any other DH bike, I think people would rather pay for a hundred uplifts (4 years worth?) than £2500 in one go as well. And for holidays in the alps you’d want a ‘normal’ bike anyway?

Gearboxes on the other hand are the future, doesn’t nicolai’s latest not cost much more than an XTR groupset? And presumably will last a lifetime.

who knows. plenty of venues where uplifts don’t run, and plenty of lazy DH’ers.

I’ve sold my DH bike and pedal uphill now anyway.

In a few years time this is going to be a very real dilemma for mountain bikers and access.
I’ve seen around 10 prototypes spring up this year. Some fully rideable.

What would you think, if you saw someone ragging around your local trail centre on one?

that rear shock mount looks incredibly flimsy (on the second pic)

What would you think, if you saw someone ragging around your local trail centre on one?

i want one of those?

There is almost no point in discussing the 15mph thing. For a while at least these will be custom built, modified and ridden off-street. There’s almost no chance of anyone getting stopped.

Unless they become a real menace that is.

I’ve ridden a Surly Big Dummy with Stokemonkey motor attached. It might be too heavy for me to lift, but it still feels exactly like my longtail to ride, except the fact that I can carry 2 kids uphill with virtually no effort.

Edit: oh and the speed difference is very hard for anyone viewing to notice. It’s a little harder for cars to pass than they expect, but otherwise it just looks like someone who is fit.

What would you think, if you saw someone ragging around your local trail centre on one?

‘I fancy a go on that’ probably followed by ‘blimey thats really heavy, doesn’t handle very well and is a pig to jump #’

# Maybe, and in reference to the ‘dh’ versions pictured above 😉

LOOK OUT GRANNIES!

4500 watts, 50mph!
http://stealthelectricbikesunitedkingdom.com/bomber.html

Looks like fun.

Just how much is that but ugly thing?

What’s the point in it?

For £5k or less you could get a thing of beauty and speed

What’s the point in it?

doesn’t use petrol, make a noise, have to be insured/licensed to ride on the road.

Hence the dilema about legislation….

doesn’t use petrol, make a noise, have to be insured/licensed to ride on the road.

I was referring to the 50mph one

Besides the YZ125 doesn’t need all the legal stuff either, it isn’t for the road and the noise and smell it makes is divine 🙂

Besides the YZ125 doesn’t need all the legal stuff either, it isn’t for the road and the noise and smell it makes is divine

Yes, but an electric one doesn’t need to be serviced every time you look at it!

Yes, but an electric one doesn’t need to be serviced every time you look at it!

Fettling 2 strokes is a joy, not a negative 🙂

That one up there kicks out – what? – 6 BHP?
If you filled the Yam with paraffin and never serviced it, it’d manage more than that

2strokes – nothing to go wrong, but they wear out

4strokes – everything to go wrong, but they run forever

I quite like fiddling with engines when I don’t have to, but when they break it boils my piss. As a result the Midget’s been sat in the garage unloved all summer.

😯 at the stealh bike… And WTF is going on with the rear shock mount? Maybe it’s something to do with the fact it’s made of steel and not aluminium?

The idea of having a bike do all the hard work in winching you back up the hill is bunk IMHO, you still have to swing your weight around on the thing to maintain traction at both ends. Moreover you’ve got to haul it into the back of your car at the end of the day’s riding too.

This one looks pretty good

i reckon that nicolai would be great fun.
would love to know what size and make the battery is.
anyone know?

and the weight is not much of a issue on a assist bike desinged for dh duties like it obviously is.
my kalkhoff weighed 60lbs with luggage for a tour the other week.

The Nicolai e-bike unit is from Bosch. Don’t know about the battery yet. Hoping to get some more info soon but not anticipating a large demand!