Telegraph story. Starting to sound a bit like Foot & Mouth. Oh dear. Discuss.

Would it make any difference?

For my sins listening to the Jeremy Vine show the other day a Danish expert on the disease was saying it’s airborne. People may carry it on their boots, but it’s more likely to be spread in the wind.

Its only taken 3 years to do anything about it.. and why are we importing native species from Denmarkland?
*large pharma type company can now step in* to create a GM ash tree thats resistant to the fungus.

The fungus, Chalara fraxinea, which has severely affected other European countries and now spread to Britain, kills 90 per cent of trees it infects.

that would be 100% of trees it infects as any infected tree will be felled.

How do you close a forest?

more seriously tho’ i never liked ash trees. Don’t trust them with there rough bark and tall trunks. They won’t be missed.
Evil ash barstards.

Also, I believe it takes 5-10 years for trees to show symptoms, so not sure how this would work.

Would definitely be a big blow for mountain biking in the UK if they did. I reckon about 90% of trail centres use FC land, and in terms of DH and the more extreme side of the sport, most of the major venues are FC-managed – Gawton, Cwm Carn, FoD, Hopton are just a few that I can think of. That said, they didn’t close the forests for the phytopthora outbreak.

What I dont understand is how a disease can just appear like this.

Is it some new mutation? surely if it’s been around a long time on the euro mainland then there would be resistent trees by now.

Conspiracy theory: get the public out of the forests, then sell them off cos they’re not being used…

Our forests are having a tough time at the mo – oak, chestnut and now ash are all suffering in some parts of the country. A bit of extra thought and hygeine from forest users can’t hurt, but as some of these pathogens are airborne it’s not going to be the solution.

Round my way the Forestry Commission has already cut down all the ash trees on its land to plant Sitka spruce

and why are we importing native species from Denmarkland?

This.

I’ve a couple of Ash’s in my garden – one is huge, as in you can’t get your arms around the trunk. And whenever I garden I uproot any saplings, as they are really impressive natural ‘growers’.

I planted 100 last winter that I bought off the net. Wondering now as to their origins.

Thing is.. banning people from the forest is a ridiculous idea.. what about birds and other wildelife, insects etc. Lets not forget also, airborn infection from the wind. Stupid half hearted idea after the horse has already bolted.

Are they banning horses too?

and why are we importing native species from Denmarkland?

Where does it say that this caused the outbreak?

It’s common practice to import sapling trees from other countries, mainly Eastern Europe, because they’re the cheapest place farming them on a big scale. Not absurd at all, given that a lot of woodland management is undertaken by charities and trusts with tight budgets. I’d expect that any imported saplings also have to be certified disease-free, in the same way as agricultural crops.

In terms of timber imports, structural timber tends to come from colder countries where the wood grows more slowly and is better quality.

I’m sure this wonderful government will use this as an ecxuse (probably on anti-terrorism legislation or something) to close the countryside indefinitely to all the plebs who don’t have horses to stop the disease spreading. Sorted.

Here in FoD they’re busy at the moment removing Larch and Sweet Chestnut because of the Phytophthora ramorum disease. The Afan Argoed valley in South Wales has already been pretty much cleared. So, this new pathogen affecting Ash on top of existing problems is going to cause even more upheaval especially as the FC currently have a policy of planting more broad-leaved species (inc Ash) in the more ‘tourism & leisure’ locations.
With regard to the larch, it can only be processed after felling by licensed sawmills and all the bark and brash has to be burnt.

What with leaf miner destroying my horse chestnuts.. honey fungus ravaging my orchard and now this for my ash.. I’ll have no trees left but goat willow.

They were encouraging this two days ago.

I think it’s media hype plus the Forestry Commission making more noise than they necessarily need to because of budget cuts, oh and today I read it’s all New Labours fault because they were told four years ago.

Fact is, Ash is a very prolific breeder and there are bloody millions of them, no way they could have counted, there are a dozen that have sprung up in my garden in the last 24 months alone, they’re like Sycamore only the wood is more useful. (Media have now decided Morgan Cars will have to change their Chassis ffs.)

Seems like matters were made worse by the virus initally being misidentified: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/29/government-ignored-ash-dieback-warnings

Mr Agreeable – Member

Would definitely be a big blow for mountain biking in the UK if they did. I reckon about 90% of trail centres use FC land, and in terms of DH and the more extreme side of the sport, most of the major venues are FC-managed – Gawton, Cwm Carn, FoD, Hopton are just a few that I can think of. That said, they didn’t close the forests for the phytopthora outbreak.

Would it really be so bad if it forced MTBers to get out a map and look for routes that aren’t FC trail centres?

Would it really be so bad if it forced MTBers to get out a map and look for routes that aren’t FC trail centres?

It would be terrible.

Yes, yes it would, given the quality of the natural trails in much of the UK (muddy bridleways and stile-ridden footpaths) versus what’s available at trail centres (all-weather riding with the attendant hassles removed).

It’s not like the RoW network would be unaffected either. Any restriction on riding in broad-leaved woodland would also be a widespread closure of the countryside. Even an FC-only closure would have a disproportionate effect on the good off-piste stuff (which the FC tends to tolerate more than other land managers).

Quite a lot of good stuff near me is FC land, or FC managed – and none of it is trail centre. FC manages or owns a *lot* of woodland.

Would it really be so bad if it forced MTBers to get out a map and look for routes that aren’t FC trail centres?

I honestly don’t think that many trail centre warriors would!

I’d be surprised if the FC did shut forests though. It is probably more of a concern for local authorities, dutch elm disease costs local authorities a fortune in destroying diseased trees before they land on people’s heads (and kept me in a cushty job for a few years!), this would provide another similar problem for them.

Does anyone know if there are restrictions as to what they can use the cut down wood for?

Ash is a great wood to burn 😉

Mr Agreeable – Member

Where does it say that this caused the outbreak?

It seems DEFRA would like us to think it blew across the north sea, but though that’s vaguely possible it’s far less likely than it transferring from imported trees.

Woodland Trust have made comment on this- they’ve been investigating their supply chain and discovered that they’d bought saplings that were officially british produce, but which had been grown abroad.

Certainly isn’t compatible with the idea of closing forests to stop spread! TBH you can’t stop an airbourne disease like that, this isn’t like sudden oak death.

Seems likely that it’s far too late to do anything about it sadly. But at least ash spreads and grows fast. The government response could cause as much damage though- I remember with the “great storm”, our local wood took more damage being prepared for replanting than it did in the storm!

It is probably more of a concern for local authorities

It’s probably a concern for any landowner with a right of access, given that the Occupiers Liability Act says you’ve got to deal with any hidden hazards of this type.

they’ve been investigating their supply chain and discovered that they’d bought saplings that were officially british produce, but which had been grown abroad.

I can’t imagine that the Woodland Trust were particularly fussed about using UK-grown trees prior to this outbreak. When I volunteered for the local Wildlife Trust they were using imported trees. The environmental impact of importing them was a bit embarrassing but you don’t have a lot of choice.

Probably true that. The specific example they gave was that they’d sourced “UK grown” saplings, which it turned out had been incubated in the UK from UK seed stock, then exported to be grown, then reimported!

With a movement chain like that… I reckon it’s definately badgers spreading it, only possible explanation.

Look here for quality up to date information ( rather than the daily mail….)

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/chalara

theres signs up about this in cwmcarn already

Very good (and well thought out) article here on the disease..

Link

chrispo – Member

Round my way the Forestry Commission has already cut down all the ash trees on its land to plant Sitka spruce

Round my way a couple of the plantations felled and cleared of Larch in the P.Ramorum crisis were replanted with Ash last year. 😕

The is no way in hell that they are going to stop the spread, so why not let nature take it’s course. Then repopulate with saplings from the ones that survive and have resistance.

So after stopping people using the forests, most of which that we ride through at trail centres have little or no ash, are we then going to stop the wind blowing and the birds flying? Once the very tiny spores have landed on the ground and been mixed with mud on boots or bike tyres, I think it unlikely they will infect other trees. I’m afraid this will spread, and nature will take its course. This will not stop those with a little bit of power ignoring common sense advice though This country will cope without ash trees. It will not cope with the countryside being shut down AND no ash trees.

Always use to laugh (inside) when US customs would ask whether I’d been in the countryside (during F&M) in the last 14 days…, “No”, was the answer BTW 🙄

Its really so easy. If the FC decide to shut the woods then just like when F&M was about we just keep out. Well anyone with any brain will.
Whether it will come to that given the transmission methods is unlikely, especially as commercial pressure will ensure that it is only done if essential.

Good article of the radio this morning indicating that transmission of the disease is mainly by movement of trees (which is now banned). It can also be carried in leaves but not mud – so, no pressing need to wash mud off boots, bikes or tyres. Just avoid transporting leaves from place to place – not too difficult

Just avoid transporting leaves from place to place

Yep, I heard that this morning too. Sounds simple enough. Good news.

Conflicts with the advice from last week to wash dog’s feet though. My Collie can get pretty mucky, but even she doesn’t tend to wander around with whole leaves stuck to her feet.