I don't believe there has been a clean TDF winner ever. They are all at it. Indurain, LeMond, Contador - the whole lot of 'em
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Armstrongs bubble soon to burst?
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Posted 1 year ago #
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don't believe there has been a clean TDF winner ever. They are all at it. Indurain, LeMond, Contador - the whole lot of 'em
"They are all at it" - if that's the case, then surely the problem is with the teams, and beyond that the very structure of top class cycle racing itself. We're surely long past the stage of believing that doping is a matter of cheating individuals, or even the occasional maverick director or doctor?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Armstrong used his team to tow him to the finish extremely well.
Armstrong's team mates have had a nasty habit of being caught doping.
Maybe Armstrong himself was clean but was being towed by some doped up accomplices.
Just a thought.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Armstrong used his team to tow him to the finish extremely well.
Did they also have special invisible clothes and bikes to help him in the many TT's he won?
Posted 1 year ago # -
but wasn't Indurain's dominance largely down to his time trialling prowess
Huge v02 max as well and his hill climbing was very good as well.
TJ may have a point re no clean winnerPosted 1 year ago # -
I cannot be bothered to speculate about Armstrong is or isn't he guilty, so just have to wait and see the outcome of the investigation. Besides Armstrong narrowest of victory's in the TDF was against Ulrich who has admitted to taking drugs, I doubt I would be shocked if Armstrong is a doper.
Posted 1 year ago # -
warton - Member
"Armstrong used his team to tow him to the finish extremely well."
Did they also have special invisible clothes and bikes to help him in the many TT's he won?Yes - they used some very advanced technology.
Alternatively, Armstrong was a talented rider with an unusual medical history who his team gave a relatively easy ride (OK I personally wouldn't find it easy) so that he could shine on the individual days.
Of course if my basis-less speculation is correct it wouldn't necessarily mean that Armstrong wasn't a cheat (or indeed that he was) - depends if he, rather than the team, knew.
Posted 1 year ago # -
That Spanish snake- why does no one accuse him? Especially with the dodgy Spanish lab/Police and the (Spanish) investigation clearing him.
Funny that. Yeah lets all respect the yellow jersey huh.
Bloody snake.
Back in 2003 when Lance fell after his bars were caught in a spectators carrier bag- yeah any rider smacked up could have recovered as strongly as him when arguably he was in his prime/peak.
Many a time in the TDF he crushed other riders. Yeah they were all clean huh? So why was his prowess then so convincing- he had a talent along with his fitness and application?
So many jealous bitches in the cycling world. Its what stopped me road riding when I was a teenager- the petty older male cyclists.
Posted 1 year ago # -
igm, to be fair you've got that right re the team, ignore me I'm being argumentative
Posted 1 year ago # -
Many a time in the TDF he crushed other riders. Yeah they were all clean huh? So why was his prowess then so convincing- he had a talent along with his fitness and application?
And good pharmaceutical support. Only one part of the package, but you'll be at the back (or more likely, racing at club level) without it.Posted 1 year ago # -
or more likely, racing at club level
So you honestly think alot of club level riders don't use 'help'?
Posted 1 year ago # -
wtf are you talking about hora?
So many jealous bitches in the cycling world. Its what stopped me road riding when I was a teenager- the petty older male cyclists.
road racing? or road riding? why would peoples opinions stop you riding a bike, unless you were racing, then wouldn't you be racing against kids your own age, not men?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I actually think LA is a very talented athlete and assuming a level playing field would still have had a successful pro cycling career. I still don't believe he rode clean though.
Lemond is an interesting one, he's passionately anti-doping now but also had the suspicious ability to dominate in flat TT's and the mountains. That said he did make the best use of technology and was at the forefront of training science. Personally he's one of the few (if only) multi-tour winners I'd give the benefit of the doubt to, I can't say I'd be stunned though if it was ever proved (or more likely he admitted) he doped.
Posted 1 year ago # -
What did one of the main secondary sponsors of USPS develop and manufacture.
hora - you are doing well today, I reckon you've done no work at all what with all that righteous anger
Posted 1 year ago # -
So you honestly think alot of club level riders don't use 'help'?
No, of course I don't.
But I would expect world class athletes to be competitive at club level clean. Not at world level though.
Posted 1 year ago # -
My next door neighbour is recovering from cancer treatment.
He described it as the most painful thing he has ever undertaken.
It has changed him physically and mentally.
Would the pain and suffering Lance experience from cancer treatment even compare with a bit of suffering in the TDF.
When he has been at deaths door, and everything that entails, why dope?
He is a highly driven individual who wants to be the best at whatever he does, on or off the bike.
An exceptional athelete.
I met him once while he was buying coffee and chocolate biscuits, he was pleasant and friendly, a normal guy but with an incredible aura of being driven to be the best.Posted 1 year ago # -
My next door neighbour is recovering from cancer treatment.
He described it as the most painful thing he has ever experienced.
It has changed him physically and mentally.
Would the pain and suffering Lance experienced from cancer treatment even compare with the suffering of the TDF.
When he was at deaths door, and everything that entails, why then go on to dope?
He is a highly driven indivdual who wants to be the best at everything he does, on or off the bike.
An exceptional athelete.
I met him once buying coffe and chocolate biscuits, he was pleasant and friendly, there was a powerful aura around him of self belief and winning mentality.Posted 1 year ago # -
Sorry about double post, thought first one hadn't gone on.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'll readily admit that out of the Americans that I'd like to meet are:
Lance Armstrong
Bill Clinton
Martin Luther King Junior (obviously hypothetical)Posted 1 year ago # -
Your LAdulation shouldn't have given you a common sense by-pass though Hora
Sure he's a great athlete, but a clean great athlete??
Posted 1 year ago # -
I never want to have cancer or survive afterwards. I'm sure I'd be a shadow of my former self. The man is a ray to others around the world.
Go and shit on someone elses role model.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I met him once buying coffe and chocolate biscuits, he was pleasant and friendly
I've changed my mind, he's innocent.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've changed my mind, he's innocent.
I'm not so sure until I know what the biscuits were
Posted 1 year ago # -
Go and shit on someone elses role model.
Can you not see that he's the one ultimately shitting on his fans? He will be rumbled one day.
Posted 1 year ago # -
In your opinion, surely. Unless you know something Novitsky doesn't? In which case I urge you to come forward with this crucial new evidence.
Posted 1 year ago # -
They are eminent internet theorists for the prosecution. Gifted in the art of reading a summary on a google news page
Posted 1 year ago # -
In your opinion could a clean Lance beat a doped Ullrich? Do you understand anything about human physiology and the oxygen parameters which would be necessary to produce the power he had to produce? It will come out one day.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Seems to me he beat him on numerous occassions.
Surely on at least one of those the powerfully built pillhead could have beaten him once by his 'amazing smacked up powers'?
Posted 1 year ago # -
wouldnt smoking dope just slow him down? i say he's more of a hero (had to google who he was as i'm not into road riding) for winning that many times and being stoned.
team hora!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I guess for some of you he will never be good enough or clean enough.
What happens when he rips up the ironman?
Why even attempt it (and Leadville) if it was about doping.
For Lance its about winning, because he can.Posted 1 year ago # -
Aye. Love how it cameback with the intention to win the Leadville.
Posted 1 year ago # -
On the contrary it's about winning because he has to. Utterly driven by the need to win, not the desire to win.
For the flat-earthers.....
Another example comes from Armstrong's own words. In this interview, he says "I also cranked out 495 watts for more than 30 minutes". 495 W is about 7W/kg, and applying the same equations as I've done throughout this post, you can work out that it requires oxygen consumption of 87 ml/kg/min, and a VO2max of 97 ml/kg/min (and that's at 90% of maximum. If you go with 85%, you get 103 ml/kg/min...).
Is that realistic? I suspect that your answer to that question depends not on what you know, but rather on what you want to believe. I don't believe that it is possible, because the combination of high efficiency (and 23% is high) and high VO2max doesn't seem to exist. In fact, Lucia et al showed that there was an inverse relationship, so that those with the best efficiency had the lowest VO2max. So the problem is that if you suggest that we increase the efficiency to make the predicted VO2max come down, you're chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, because the possible VO2max is coming down anyway!
However, people will draw their own conclusions. I am of the opinion, like Prof Aldo Sassi, that a value above 6.2 W/kg is indicative of doping. And in the coming weeks, I will post more on this, including graphs that hopefully illustrate this point even more clearly. But, as always, there is likely to be debate."
Posted 1 year ago # -
For Lance its about winning, because he can.
sure he can
But getting up & winning day after day in long stage races takes something extra [EPO usually]
Posted 1 year ago # -
I believed it cameback with the intention of fighting cancer
Posted 1 year ago # -
But getting up & winning day after day in long stage races takes something extra [EPO usually]
So now you are saying everyone in the pelaton today is doing this then?
Posted 1 year ago #
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