My rear lever wasn't returning to the open position properly so phoned up LBS and booked it in. Bike's only 3 months old so warranty etc etc. Get to shop, lbs dude just shakes his head and says they're shit, always happens, you wanna buy somp hopes. Now I'd love to buy some hopes but they're rather pricey and the fact I've just blown 1100 on a bike I'd expect good brakes on it!!
Apparently it's the seals in the lever, one was even like it when they took it out of the box!!

mine are fine…

Did they replace the seals under warranty?

oh, though one cause of slow retracting is the seals in the caliper/the condition of the piston. In all this crap weather recently, you may find cleaning the pistons on the caliper is helpful.

We'll see later regarding the warranty, I'm not gonna be happy if they try and charge me!

Hmm, I've only seen one bad set of Juicy 3s… I've got some Juicy 4s I'll be selling pretty cheap soon, if you fancy an 'upgrade'. They are perfect :0)

have to admit mine always seem to need bleeding every few months – unlike Juicy 5's

Mine were fine – needed bleeding more than I would have liked to but other than that they were ok. If they don't work after three months they should sort them out.

Love mine – much better than the Hayes they replaced…

The words Juicy and Crap seem synonymous whether you have 3, 5 or 7 of them.

I changed to Hope X2. Better in all respects (aside from cost)

FLUSH THEM AWAY

Ran mine for 3 years never bled them, treated them hard went through loads of pads.

Never had any problems. Good brakes, not the best but deffo not terrible.

On second thoughts buy some Hopes and I'll give you £20 for old rubbish Juicy3s

yes. avid brakes suck.

they're ok when they work, but require too much maintenance…

(leaky levers and sticky pistons have been a recurring theme in my experience)

The words Juicy and Crap seem synonymous

Nonsense.

complete shite. ive had more issues with hopes than avid over the years. MANY more issues.

if you look after avids they are fine.

The words Juicy and Crap seem synonymous whether you have 3, 5 or 7 of them.

yes. avid brakes suck.

Have had 3's & 5's here & no issues.
Mate has 5's & no issues.
Other mate has 7's & no issues.

I've never "maintained" mine, cant be arsed with all that faff. They just work.

Hopes are nice, but they should be for twice the price.
Shimano seem reliable enough also, have some old Deore's that perform well enough. None I've used stop like my Juicy 5's though.
I'd give the 3's a chance, failing that see if the shop will let you upgrade to Hopes at cost…

They've been (lbs) good so far. Upgraded my shock for free under the warranty so hopefully when I go back today there'll be a nice set of hope 4 pots on! Mmmm;)

there does seem to be a lot of negative press about juicys. However I've had 3s and 7s and no issues.

normally when opinions and experiences run so hot and cold like this it points to reliability issues (like manitou forks. Wonderful … if you get a good one) but unreliability is not a trait that Avid/SRAM are known for so I don't know on this one tbh

That said, the shop mechanic saying something like "you want to get a set of hopes" while looking at a set of faulty brakes that his shop sold you and so are *his* responsibility is a clear and cynical sales pitch. Ask him why his shop sold you the 3s in the first place if they're that bad, then query each part on your bike in turn, making the point "well, you were willing to fob me off with "rubbish" brakes so how can I trust a word you say?" Should irritate him enough for one afternoon.

3s are fine, but they are entry level. ofc Hopes or anything in that league should be better, but you do get what you pay for … most of the time

entirely personal opinion he is expressing there.

i wouldnt buy any, but mainly cause they are a faff to bleed, and a faff to change the pads and feel 'orrible

but i CERTAINLY wouldnt buy Hopes.

i would reccomend shimano or hayes nines if you were to change, but they should sort it on warrenty shouldnt they?

To be fair it wasn't really a pitch just his honest opinion! Not what you want tohear tho either! When the bike was new I thought they were the business, but as I found out on Saturday the harder you push the longer it takes to stop! And that has knocked my confidence in them a bit!

my avid juicy 3 & 5's have been great too!
Bleeding isn't too a faff with the kit and instructions.

never really had a problem with Hope either (old style M4's).

Are Avid 3's really that bad?

No, there are just a lot of people who aren't as mechanically talented as they'd like to suggest.

Bleeding them is an easy, if faffy, job.

Are they any good? Well depends if you like the 'feel' of them. Some people like brakes to be off & on, others like a progressive feel of power building.

Olly, not really personal opinion if you mean my comment about Hopes. I only said they *should* be better not whether or not they are. It's obvious that they should be better, they're a buttload more expensive and considered by the market much higher end than J3s, which are pitched at entry level. OTOH, Whether or not they (Hopes) are worth the difference, now that would be more a matter of opinion and in mine I agree with you that they're not.

wrightyson, fair play about the salespitch, I was venting a bit because it really irritates me when shop dudes play the old switcheroo. About the brake performance, you mention that pulling harder seems to produce less braking force now when they were better previously? Does the action feel at all spongey? Have you possibly got any oil on the pads or disc recently? Do the front and back brakes feel / work differently from each other (ie one brakes well, the other not or one spongey the other solid)? It's not much of a diagnosis, but one or both of the brakes could have contaminated pads and/or need bleeding. Your mechanic will be able to diagnose this in seconds if he has the bike in front of him.

Re Juicy cr*p

In fairness I believe Hope brakes have had a long awaited improvement on overall quality and performance. I had some old mini's and they were noisy and generally pants.

Shimano XT were faultless and maintenance free on another bike for several years. Top marks.

My experience with Juicy 5's has been poor but thats just my solitary opinion I have a friend who owns a bike shop and the ratio of Avid brake repairs / returns he sees are disproportionate.

The Avid threes i've seen / used have been the most reliable brakes i've come across. Their heavy but get the job done. Whereas i wouldn't say the same things about hopes (although the last set I had was some minis).

I have Juicy 3's on my Pitch Pro and they are much better than my M4's with floating rotors that I had previously. No complaints and would buy them again, no problem. I have 205/185mm rotor ones.

The pads especially seem to last ages.

Just spoke to the lbs. Lever off and to be sent away. Could take 3 weeks to sort! 3 fookin weeks! I ain't happy as I'm away riding next weekend!! Well was. Where to now???

that's a bit rich tbh. Ask for a loaner (either whole bike or just a brake) till they've sorted it out?

wrightyson, I have an old set of 5's in the cupboard that I'll be using at some stage in the future, but you're welcome to borrow the rear one for a couple of weeks until you get yours back – so long as you send it back again 😉

It is a bit rich when they already had my bike for 3 weeks before Christmas with the shock problem! I mentioned a loan straight away. I'll wait for the workshop guy to confirm the "exact" time frame and then it'll be manager time!! Oh and squin thanks for the offer, never ceases to amaze me what a decent bunch of people are on this forum. I'll wait for the call!!

i was refering to the original bike shop blokes retort of "you want hopes"

if he suggested i wanted hopes, i would have to correct him

"no, no i dont, not at all, shush you"

No problem. Give me a shout if you wanna borrow.

Stu.

mine work I have Juicy 3, Juicy 5 and a Juicy 7 + Hoppe on my Fs bike.
I stop with them all. They all work fine

Amazing what a demand of a loan bike can do. Avid will now turn the lever round, repaired or replaced within 24 hrs of receiving it!

Juicy 3s with 203mm rotors

One year of use and absolutely no problems at all.

I'll give you £20 for old rubbish Juicy3s

You, my friend, have a deal. Mail in profile 🙂

I've had Juicy 7's for the last three years and they have been fine. Bled twice and only cause I wanted to more than the fact I needed to.

"faff to change the pads "
If you ditch the pad retention clip on the back of the caliper (relying on the pad seperation spring/spider and the pad retention raised tabs on the pistons to keep the pads in) then they're a doddle to change the pads

The bleed procedure is more fiddly than other brakes and the bleed kit is pricey, but isn't too bad once you've done it a couple of times. Not something to be done in a hurry though
The (order of) the procedure in the bleed kits instructions seems to work much better than the (order of) the procedure in the instructions for my ('07) Juicy 3s

They are on the spongey side, but I prefer them like that over the uncontrolled/unmodulated grabbiness of hayes or bled up hopes (I quite like my hopes with air in the system for XC pootling, horrendous on anything with any brake dragging though). You get used to the longer lever throw too. Just make sure to wind the levers out so the bite point isn't at the bars and don't do anything stupid like set them up to use with your middle finger. The shorter levers that most mean they're easier to set inboard a bit (For one finger braking) too without pushing the shifters in that far, or having to resort to running them outside of the brakes, and/or having to remove the shifter windows

I've had 1 piston rod snap, one piston rod nut lose its thread, and have had to bleed one brake twice after gradually losing fluid every time I push the pads back. I probably push them back too in fairness

I know 3 people (of 3 people) with newer Juicy 5s (The ones with black resevior caps) who have loads of problems with bleeding them to work properly though

"Their heavy "
They're not that heavy, especially when they can be had for £50 per end all in. They're an older generation of brake so newer stuff does look a bit lighter.

Olly

i was refering to the original bike shop blokes retort of "you want hopes"

if he suggested i wanted hopes, i would have to correct him

"no, no i dont, not at all, shush you"

Fair enough, then I agree with you except that anyone in a shop who expresses an opinion about a product that they sell is suspect (but I am 40 and cynical)

Glad they're sorting you out, do make sure the levers are not mushy and they're braking OK (you mentioned something about them not working so well) before you run out of the shop. I fully expect they'll have to bleed the one they're replacing/repairing the lever on but in anycase, have a bounce, you don't want to be dissapointed again

My Avid 3s now work fine. They didn't at first because like an eejit I hadn't done up the lever hose clamp tight enough.

Did have an Avid 5 from CRC that didn't work properly straight off the shelf and like the sterling folk they are replaced it within 24hrs.

Other than that 3 prs, 3 years, 17st of ham fisted enthusiasm and no problems. Also liking the Superstar pads.

My juicy 7's went on the bike in October 2008.

Not been bled since install when they were bled properly by the LBS and have been fine, better than fine in fact.

No problems changing pads at all and good wear on both the OEM pads and Superstars since.

Cant see any point in changing them or bleeding them yet.

Great brakes.

I had hopes before and they were a proper pain in the arse, seals going, binding up and leaky too.

Juicy 3s are great brakes. ignore what the nay sayers, err say.

There is an issue with the odd new avid brake. leaking levers, poorly bled.but these are easily remedied, as are all other problems. The hoses are also poor quality in my opinion, and should be replaced for more power and feel.

Im a bit tired of people saying one brake is better than another. 90% of the time its just cos they aint set up right, or maintained correctly. for sure some are easier to change pads, or set pad distance, or lever distance etc. But learn your brakes, or get a decent lbs, and most brakes are comparable.