Heal up jenvey lad,been watching these from the beginning. I do think he should get rid of that rattly piece of junk orange though & get a decent modern enduro bike. He would then have no need for the downhill & jump bike. He only bought these as the orange is so bad. Would give him the chance to get used to 1 bike.

EDIT I originally though that was the easier of the 2 drops on gbu. Took me a fair few attempts to build up to the lower one which he sailed over in a previous video.

Ouch. He didn’t look set up well for that at al.

It’s alright that drop, although I’m not so keen on it on my hardtail. It’s not eight foot but it’s one that you really need to commit to with the turn in at the top.

The second one next to the push up track is more fun though.

Genius training methodology for future paralympians.

He’s much braver then I am that’s for sure. As a fellow shit mountain biker would someone mind explaining how that drop should have been taken? i’ve heard advice saying to lean back like he was, but it seems that leaning back like that is only suitable for rolling off smaller drops?

Would pumping down and launching / lifting the front wheel off the lip so that both wheels hit the ground be the way to do it?

Little bit faster, do a bit of a push / pop off the lip (as if going off a kerb trying to land wheels at the same time), keep weight central, try to match the wheels to the downslope angle to land nice and smoothly. It sounds much more complicated than it feels when you do it.

He comes across as really likeable to me! Just watched his Ard Rock footage and it was enjoyable because of his commentary!

Looking at his crash blimey I’d not have tried that drop! One thing for sure though being that brave a session with Jedi and he’ll be ready for rampage!!

Fingers crossed he heals up quick!!

monostereo – Member

i’ve heard advice saying to lean back like he was, but it seems that leaning back like that is only suitable for rolling off smaller drops?

Basically it’s not about leaning back, it’s about pushing back (or pushing the bike forward, if you prefer)- you’re not usually trying to do a permanent, sustained manual, you’re just pushing the front up for long enough to not go over the bars. Moving your weight back early looks like the same thing in stills but doesn’t do the job, timing is important. (going faster can help, too, since it means you don’t have to sustain the shape as much- if you think about the critical time when the front’s off the drop but the back isn’t, the longer that is the longer you need to keep the wheel up). But if I have a superpower, it’s doing drops like that stupidly and unhelpfully slowly and all it does is exaggerate the move you have to do, it doesn’t change the plan.

Sitting on your wheel is well out.

Some people would pre-jump that but that’s basically a more advanced skill, I reckon it’s the sort of thing you don’t think about unless you can do it the basic way, certainly that’s my approach.

Never would have watched these videos without this thread. I think he comes across as a genuinely nice guy. Honest with himself and in front of the camera.
I do worry what is driving him to push so far beyond his skill set though.

Basically, one should learn how to manual and do rear wheel landings before attempting drops bigger than 3ft high.

Poor bloke.

I feel that this is probably what a lot of people are riding like but they think that they are so much better. He’s got much bigger balls than me.

I don’t like all that stuff on his wall heater.

Basically, one should learn how to manual and do rear wheel landings before attempting drops bigger than 3ft high.

Best of luck with that.

Right, I’m a shit rider…my biggest claim to fame is finishing in the top 3rd of the field at the FoD mini-DH one winter race…and that was more a fluke of tyre choice but…

…even I can take that drop.

It’s one of the easier ones there because of the lovely slab they’ve out there for your take off, my technique is all wrong I’m sure but I come in and just before the drop (on the slab) I squish my forks slightly, then the rebound kicks it just as the front wheel leaves the lip, weight slightly back and it’s all good.

People are quite right, he’s running before he can walk…ditch the DH bike and get an aggro HT…thaf drop is also rollable as someone else said, I’ve done that when new to the FoD and you can see it’s rollable when he’s shows you the side view. No nasty vertical drop, just glides out from the lip, rolled it on a 140mm HT and regularly send it on my FS now’s

Please don’t anyone take this as blowing my own trumpet.. if anything by describing my (probably wrong) technique I’ve opened myself up for ridicule…but it works for me.

Is this chap the perfect example of someone who takes on stuff way beyond his ability so he can make youtube vids and earn click revenue ? Reminds me of the vblogging thread

I don’t think so Jamba, he’s just a noob that sees folk jumping at his local stuff and wants to be good. Met him at Ard rock, he’s actually quite shy, and his vids have quite an endearing innocence about them.

He doesn’t seem to have much else going on in his life bar work and a bedsit, I don’t see him as an attention seeker or chasing cash really.

Max torque nailed the post crash analysis in the first post.

At least he isnt yanking on the bars or picking the bike up with his SPD’s.
He needs to learn to guage the entry speed required so the bike will clear the lip before starting to drop.
The arse over the backwheel is only usefull for very steep,loose decents where you are on the very edge of grip and control annd drifting the bike about trying to keep it upright, and stop it getting away from you.

The technique I use ( on smaller, safer, less gnarr drops )is get the bike squared up to the edge , weight cenntral, arms flexed. Then drop heels and kick the BB forward and up toward the front hub, simultanesly pushing the bars . It hard to explain , but using your hips and thighs to push the bike from low down projects it forwards and off the lip so the flight is level and controlled .
A tiny bit of weight on the bars so the front wheel lands a split second before the rear wheel, and use you knees to soak up the hit.

I am a Jedi failure and couldnt and wouldnt jump or drop on my 1:1 day with him , but over time and with practise I am slowly getting there. For some reason I also find my 29er easier to jump than my 575 , no idea why .

There is a similar video of a guy going off a wooden ladder at either Glentress or Chatel with exactly the same body position and OTB outcome. Cant find it on YTube though.

This is why I love flat pedals. I have all the skill and grace of a drunken gibbon, but at least I can bail quickly (basically let go of the bike) when things go awry. A few of my riding buddies have actually crowned me the king of bailing 🙂

Really hope this guy heals up and takes a few lessons or finds folk to ride with who can help him. I’ve been lucky that some of the guys I used to ride with are talented, patient and decent teachers.

8ft, what, with a Pinkbike ruler? It’s not even half that. You can actually roll it if you really want to. The ‘landing’ starts about 1ft out in distance & 2ft down at the most.

Right, I’m a shit rider…my biggest claim to fame is finishing in the top 3rd of the field at the FoD mini-DH one winter race…and that was more a fluke of tyre choice but…

…even I can take that drop.

I’m a shit rider too and a fully paid up member of the self preservation society yet ‘back in the day’ I still managed to do the log drop at chicksands on a hardtail with fox 100 forks and no pads/protection.

I didn’t make a video about it.

Basically, one should learn how to manual and do rear wheel landings before attempting drops bigger than 3ft high.

Best of luck with that.[/quote]
Which bit don’t you like, learning how to manual, learning ho to do rear wheel landings, or both?

I’d imagine the bold part – rear wheel landings – would be quite obvious.

I wouldn’t ever aim to land that drop on the rear wheel, YMMV.

I’d imagine the bold part – rear wheel landings – would be quite obvious.

I wouldn’t ever aim to land that drop on the rear wheel, YMMV.

Sorry, I didn’t spot the emboldening. Pretty sure I’d chose a rear wheel landing for that drop, on a rigid bike at least, but can be hard to tell from a video. There is a difference between learning to do rear wheel landings and doing it for every drop you do. IMHO doing rear wheel landings helps to develop general landing technique and front/rear balance so is a useful thing to know before graduating onto bigger drops, even if the first big drop you do is onto a downslope where you don’t need to land on the rear.

Rear wheel landings onto a downslope lead to your weight being pitched forwards pretty violently unless you’ve got better skills than me and are doing it intentionally into a manual.
I’d go riding with that guy, I like to ride with someone willing to have a go and learn and push their comfort zone.

Do you know what? Good on him for giving it a go. You crash more when you’re new to it, and he’s got unlucky on that one from probably pushing himself a bit hard, but we’ve all done it. And maybe a skills course would help, but I remember when MTBing was just a few mates in the woods daring each other to do stuff – a lot like the riding part of that vid.

So if he wants to, I wish him all the best in his skills course, but if he just wants to keep playing in the woods with his mates (and posting to Youtube for that matter), that’s fine too.

It’s pretty terrifying watching Dave’s videos. I’m all for pushing yourself, but for me if I’m not feeling a particular feature I just don’t ride it. A broken bone means months off the bike at least, whereas the trails will still be there tomorrow. This said, I also had to properly spanner myself in order to arrive at this position of sagely wisdom…

Interestingly, this crash looks pretty much identical to one he had 6 months or so back:

He was lucky to walk away from that one with nothing broken, I’d say. And there were plenty of YT comments on how to do it better, suggestions to get it dialed off a curb first, go get a training session, etc.

monostereo – would someone mind explaining how that drop should have been taken?

Take a step back, and consider what you are aiming to achieve on a ‘drop’.

Before you drop, you’ll be at the top of the drop, and afterwards you’ll be below it. That you can’t change, gravity seems to that. What we actually need to achieve with our technique is to land the drop, still on our bike, going the right direction and with enough stability and a low enough impact to be able to just ride away from it.

In the vast majority of cases, where any speed is involved, that means landing both wheels evenly together (zero speed, trials style drops can be taken to a rear wheel landing by very skilled people, but for most of us, you need to be going at least walking pace. However, speed is generally, not the friend you might think it were when it comes to drops)

Depending on the shape & slope of the landing, coming in “both wheels together” means matching the angle of the bike to the slope. For the drop in the video, with its steep landing, you do want the bike angled really quite nose down to avoid a rear wheel landing and a potential slap forwards and OTB after landing

So, what do we need to do to land both wheels together. Well fairly obviously we need to not nosedive off the lip ! Consider a triangle, of you in the middle, up at the peak, with your front and back wheel down and either side of you. When both wheels are on the ground, you don’t start to rotate around your combined centre of gravity as long as your mass is acting inside the wheel base. But, once one wheel (on point/end of our triangle) leaves the ground, if the other one is still “load bearing” then simple physics causes one end of the bike to drop as the other is held upwards by the ground. So how do we prevent that rotation from occuring when one wheel MUST leave the ground before the other (such as going off a drop, or even the lip of a jump)

One technique is to try to get right off the back of the bike as it leaves the lip, and if your traveling at some speed, this works, but it’s a dangerous technique because if you want to be off the back of the bike and still be holding onto the handle bars, then your arms WILL be locked straight out in front of you. At that point ANY drop at the front whatsoever, caused by poor timing, an odd shaped lip, or even some unexpected suspension rebound, pulls on your arms (which you cannot straighten any further) that then pulls on the main mass of your torso and irreversibly starts you rotating fowards. If you’re lucky and it’s a small drop, you’ll have landed before there is time for you and your bike to revolve forwards enough to go OTB. On a big drop, like in the OP video, nope, your going OTB and there is nothing (short of letting go of the bars an bailing!) you can do to stop it!

However, most people do not have long enough arms to be able to totally “unicycle along on the back wheel” with the bike level. (Manuals need the bike to be angled upwards steeply to effectively shorten the wheelbase) Try it. Find a nice soft grass area, roll along, and move as far back as you can, till your arms are locked out straight. Does the front come up? (generally no, because you end up folded in half, so whist your butt might well be sticking well off the back, most of you is actually still between the wheels!).
Unfortunately, when we are “scared” of something on a bike, we tend to move backwards, away from it. This OP video is case in point. Guy nervous of drop, gets right back, locked arms, messes up timing, ass probably also hits rear wheel and his fate is sealed before he’s even left the lip of the drop…..

So, what other options are there? You’ve probably heard of “pumping” or “preloading” the bike? These are techniques that temporarily and dynamically transfer your effective mass from one end of the bike to the other, or even make you, and your bike, weightless for a short period.
Try this. Roll along, pedals level, in the middle of your bike. Crouch (bend knees and arms) down towards the top tube then ‘spring’ upwards suddnely, what happens? Chances are, you and your bike popped up into the air for a short period of time, both wheels roughly together! Match the timing of this ‘pump’ to just before the front wheel leaves the lip, and you cannot start any unwanted forwards rotation because NEITHER of your wheels is carrying any load as you go over that lip! In effect you’ve changed the order of things from “front wheel leaves lip then back wheel” to “both wheels jump into the air at the same time”, which is exactly what we need to achieve to prevent unwanted rotations in the air)
And the bonus is that, as you have to stay pretty much in the middle of your bike to do this technique, your arms can’t be locked locked straight, so mess it up, and you will probably be able to ride it out even a pretty messy landing that’s coming up! So, if you learn this technique, and make it second nature, and instinctive, by lots of practice on small drops, the technique itself will help stop you trying to get off the back when you are scared on the big stuff! (remember ‘big’ is all relative)

Here, and to shamelessly (mis)quote a Jedi-ism, you “link the effort of your pump to your speed” and not to the size of the drop (which is mostly irrelevant physically (although not psychologically)). if you’re only going slowly, you need both wheels unweighted for longer, so you need to pump down harder to achieve that. It doesn’t matter if you’re dropping a 3″ kerb or an 8 foot step down! And that is actually a good thing, because you can practice 100% of your technique on a kerb, unlike the guy in the OPs video, who despite doing exactly the same OTB on a drop in one of his first videos (at Chicksands)goes right ahead and tries again on that big drop at FoD….

(this un-weighting technique can be extended into a more advanced “pre-jump” to maximise speed over rolling drops and jumps, but that’s a lesson for another day 😉

That’s nicely explained, coming from someone who is firmly a WOTG rider wherever possible.

I spent probably 25 years as an SPDs and WOTG rider!

I’m not a natural rider by any stretch, but now, after lots of practice and some excellent tuition (thanks Tony!) i’m generally a competent if not actually stylish rider in the air 😆

Excellent post Max. It helps that I went to see Jedi so can actually relate to what you have explained so well.

Fair play to that lad! All i think about looking at that is missed mortgage payments. 😆

to the other, or even make you, and your bike, weightless for a short period.
Try this. Roll along, pedals level, in the middle of your bike. Crouch (bend knees and arms) down towards the top tube then ‘spring’ upwards suddnely, what happens? Chances are, you and your bike popped up into the air for a short period of time, both wheels roughly together! Match the timing of this ‘pump’ to just before the front wheel leaves the lip, and you cannot start any unwanted forwards rotation because NEITHER of your wheels is carrying any load as you go over that lip! In effect you’ve changed the order of things from “front wheel leaves lip then back wheel” to “both wheels jump into the air at the same time”, which is exactly what we need to achieve to prevent unwanted rotations in the air)

Sounds like a mini bunnyhop before the lip, that would feel pretty terrible to me unless I want to pre-jump a lip/drop to minimise airtime. What happens if you’re going slowly enough that your rear wheel touches back down before you’ve cleared the lip of the drop? Nope, surely this isn’t the technique that you would use to drop off a kerb? Just unweight your front wheel a little, let the rear follow and even out in the air. If there’s a lip, push your front wheel into it a bit then stuff your rear wheel into it as well and pull up as required to match the transitions and distance.

It’s pretty terrifying watching Dave’s videos. I’m all for pushing yourself, but for me if I’m not feeling a particular feature I just don’t ride it. A broken bone means months off the bike at least, whereas the trails will still be there tomorrow. This said, I also had to properly spanner myself in order to arrive at this position of sagely wisdom…

Interestingly, this crash looks pretty much identical to one he had 6 months or so back:

He was lucky to walk away from that one with nothing broken, I’d say. And there were plenty of YT comments on how to do it better, suggestions to get it dialed off a curb first, go get a training session, etc.

I’m very much of the same opinion as Tom, not sure whether to admire his total lack of self preservation as determination or stupidity. Despite acknowledging his complete lack of skill to continually throw himself at larger obstacles was only going to end in the inevitable.

I hope he gets back riding soon.

Stevet1
Sounds like a mini bunnyhop before the lip

An English Bunnyhop maybe (ie both wheels together), but you don’t actually need to get fresh air between the wheels and the floor, just to make sure neither wheel has any significant load on it

Stevet1
What happens if you’re going slowly enough that your rear wheel touches back down before you’ve cleared the lip of the drop?

The same that happens when you don’t un-weight the front end for long enough if you are just popping the front only. Except, because you can stay in the middle of the bike when you un-weight both wheels, you are less likely to then be pulled forwards by your straight arms and into a messy OTB

Stevet1
Nope, surely this isn’t the technique that you would use to drop off a kerb? Just unweight your front wheel a little, let the rear follow and even out in the air.

If you are travelling at a significant speed (where significant depends a lot on what you are about to fly off!) then yes, you can just pump the front wheel into the air only and that works just a well.

Stevet1
If there’s a lip, push your front wheel into it a bit then stuff your rear wheel into it as well and pull up as required to match the transitions and distance.

The problem of course is that lots of drops (and a fair few badly built jumps too…) don’t have nice, clean, smooth and square lips! And in particular, try dropping off a drop that has a steep down hill take off. It’s REALLY difficult to just pop the front up, because all your weight is on it (even more so if your braking for the drop)

Really though there is no single “right” technique. Find something that works for you, and practice it. Every feature is different, and you need a range of skills that you can apply as needed. Really the point of my earlier rambling was to highlight that although “getting right off the back” on drops does work when done perfectly(watch the pro’s, they do it all the time, but then again, they can also flat land manual for 500m etc). But it allows no margin for error, which as a novice, especially a less than confident novice, is not a good situation to be in…..

Max, anyone ever tell you you over think things? 😉

Fair play for writing all that – it was nicely done but…

zero speed, trials style drops can be taken to a rear wheel landing by very skilled people

That’s not really true. It’s just a different skill and no harder to achieve than the other techniques you listed, it’s just most people don’t practice it. It’s a bmx street/trials technique and the first i learned as a kid. I don’t use it that often on the mtb but it’s useful on slower tech trails where the drop has a slow entry/exit. Same technique is useful if you’re about to case a double – pushing the rear down (and pulling up on the bars a little) and using your legs as additional suspension can really take the sting out.

As for the guy in the vid, hope he heals up strong and learns some basic bike handling before attempting stuff like that again – he’s sketchy as fug! 😀

I like Dave’s channel and I did that drop a day or so after he tried it (literally)… to be honest had I seen his video I’d have probably not done it or worse done what he did.

I’m no better than he is.. the difference was we went on Friday and rode GBU a few times then I just did the drop off on Sunday… I didn’t have the same pressure he did and wasn’t even planning it but I came out of the turn clean and everything felt good .. (and I then nearly stacked on the 3rd drop in the gully before the firetrail after exiting the second smaller drop off… )

The thing is how do you actually learn except by trying stuff???

Years (decades) ago I learned to ski … and had instruction … then later I lean red to snowboard…
Snowboarding I just strapped it to my feet and went to the top of the mountain… and figured out the rest on the way down…

I’m reasonably competent at snowboarding… but I couldn’t teach someone… I really don’t know what I do… it’s all just feel and subtle weight changes.. whereas I have taught lots of people to ski…. admittedly I’m a better skier than boarder but I don’t think that’s the main reason… the mean reason is because I actually learned to ski with some basics… from someone who knew how to teach skiing…

I learned to MTB (as it is) as I learned to snowboard… that involved a lot of what things feel like and quite a few crashes… but I have never seen any sort of structured “how to jump” .. 90% of video’s actually seem to be how to get flat … and 10% deal with kerb sized stuff… but nothing seems to cover the kerb to 30′ gap jump…

I’m obviously no expert but I think the reason Dave screwed the drop off up was mainly because he wasn’t comfortable doing it. His lack of comfort led to him not popping off the ledge as that feels like you’re making it bigger and instead just going as far back as possible resulting in his bum touching the wheel.

Here is an example though …I’ve yet to see a video/advice that you need the wheels to be rotating… I worked that out for myself the hard way… equally I’ve seen loads of people screw-up the tiny drop off on Swinley nearly all of them due to applying brakes (be it before or in the air).

The reason I managed it was because I felt pretty confident and confident enough to pop off the top whereas Dave was more concerned with minimising the drop…

Either way he has bigger balls than I do…. but if anyone has a link or “How to” I reckon me or Dave would be grateful!

I think the reason Dave screwed the drop off up was mainly because he wasn’t comfortable doing it.

Personally I wouldn’t have hit that drop, or any feature, that had me that shit scared beforehand. Yes you have to push it and do stuff you’re unsure of to progress in anything but I can’t help but think that the terror did for him on this one. I reckon it was enough to overrule all and any of the theory he knew about riding drops.

Personally I wouldn’t have hit that drop, or any feature, that had me that shit scared beforehand. Yes you have to push it and do stuff you’re unsure of to progress in anything but I can’t help but think that the terror did for him on this one. I reckon it was enough to overrule all and any of the theory he knew about riding drops.

Yep … no way would i have done that on the first day … I’ve been past it before but I’ve done similar drops elsewhere and been OK but if you aren’t comfortable it makes it pretty likely you are going to completely forget everything theoretical … TBH it’s like most … AFTER you’ve done it it’s nowhere near as hard as you thought… but you can’t go half assed (pun half intended) over a drop that size….

I doubt I was going much faster than him… (I’ve only got a medium travel so the root bit before is a challenge to keep the speed) but after 3 days of riding in FOD and a few runs on GBU I just felt like I could do it as I got to the corner …

A few months ago though I was doing a smaller drop off (or more accurately not doing it) at Peaselake but I just didn’t feel comfortable and refused it about 10 times and went home totally pissed with myself but then I was alone and in the end I went home not hospital. Unless you feel good or are actually so practiced your body does it without you thinking the amount of nervousness he was showing is likely to mean you forget everything … I’m sure the pro DH riders and slope style etc. have huge jumps that terrify them but they probably just instinctively “do it” where I have to think…

I’m always wondering when pretty good people (like on GMBN) say some features terrify them if they look down… as you’d think knowing the drop is there is enough anyway but obviously they are able to go into autopilot. I don’t have anything like enough practice to do that or anything like it in autopilot…

stevextc)

The thing is how do you actually learn except by trying stuff???

By starting small. And critically, by admitting to oneself that it takes time and practice to get “good”. Plenty of places (like Chicksands he’d already visited twice) have progressive drops, and repeated practice on those easy (straight in, straight out) type drops makes all the difference, before sending it off something a) difficult due to the run in, and b) that has significant consequence of injury should you mess it up.

It’s not for nothing that the Jedi’s of this world have a mental system for learning as well as a physical one…….

By starting small. And critically, by admitting to oneself that it takes time and practice to get “good”. Plenty of places (like Chicksands he’d already visited twice) have progressive drops, and repeated practice on those easy (straight in, straight out) type drops makes all the difference, before sending it off something a) difficult due to the run in, and b) that has significant consequence of injury should you mess it up.

It’s not for nothing that the Jedi’s of this world have a mental system for learning as well as a physical one…….

I get starting small …. but I’m actually wondering about specific technique…
What I mean is I see a fair bit of how to drop off a kerb… (lets say Level 1/10) and a fair bit of how to get your bike horizontal (Lets say Level 7/10) but next to nothing in Levels 2-6 ….

If I can see the landing I wouldn’t think twice about a 3′-4′ drop-off .. (for example) but I’m sure I’m doing loads of stuff wrong…. With the exception of GBU I actually find I have hugely progressed at FOD because you can usually see the landings… when I was at Peaselake however the much smaller drop off than the one Dave screwed up and I managed on GBU scared me silly…. this despite me walking it 10 times… knowing there was nothing specifially tricky about the landing..

Just as an example… when you see the “how to dip off a kerb video’s” it seems no-one says when you get bigger for Gods sake don’t stop your wheels rotating…. I discovered this for myself… but its actually a natural thing when you want to slow down after landing… of course it makes perfect sense from the physics… but obviously it takes very little brake pressure to stop a wheel with no weight on it…

For ages I saw people flicking the bike on jumps and thought it was just “showing off” rather than realise it repositions the bike for landing… of course once you can do it you can mess about and show off as well… 😀

However 90% of my (limited) skills are just feeling… I have a just turned 8 yr old who asks “how do I” and I really don’t know… certainly not enough to teach someone else. Often I ride a jump or drop off and then try and work out what i did to explain it to him…. then he applies it in a different situation and to quote the thread title “so the inevitable happens” ….

He’s back!

I think he’s recovering from a broken collarbone at the moment but he’s put together a montage of his journey from being “totally rubbish” to “semi not rubbish” (his words not mine).

Dave Jenvey – Getting Good on a Bike

Anyone who decries him should post up their own vids, or let us know what position you do finished in the WC….

not enough speed I thought.