Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 60 total)
  • And I always thought I was a crap driver….
  • mtbmatt
    Free Member

    Can’t see it ever being law as it’s virtually un-policeable. Especially when they reckon there are one million cars on the road without tax and/or insurance.

    All that would be needed is a similar system to Germany where if you do not have M&S marked tyres fitted and you have an accident then you are automatically at fault.

    Scamper
    Free Member

    With decent winter tyres, i’ve said this on another thread, but you’d be hard pressed to notice any difference on road noice, cornering, fuel economy or wear rates compared to summer tyres, if you bought a car with winter tyres and were non the wiser.

    Today in my impreza with winter tyres managed to tow several cars and even a light truck up snow inclines in Brum but thats because i’m a rad sick AWESOME driving god. Not. 😀 And in the three hours today mercs were def the worst in the snow, followed by golf’s/A3’s.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    Woody – Member
    Is it really that warm in the south ie. <7C for only 2 months a year?

    These on on average he is talking about.
    Months below 7 deg C

    London
    Month, Ave min, Ave max

    Jan 2 6
    Feb 2 7
    Dec 4 7
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/city_guides/results.shtml

    Edinburgh
    Month, Ave min, Ave max

    Jan 1 6
    Feb 1 6
    Dec 2 7
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/city_guides/results.shtml?tt=TT003780

    So both London and Edinburgh only have three months where moth min and max are on average <= 7 deg C.

    If we include moths where only minimums are below 7 deg C Edinburgh gains march April and November and London gains March April and November too.

    It’s pretty clear that on average The number of months which experience temperatures <7 deg C is the same North or South.

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    buzz-lightyear
    Free Member

    Kwik fit offer a tyre “hotel” for summer/winter tyres

    That is well worth knowing. I’ll look it up.

    Woody
    Free Member

    The Brick – interesting info, cheers

    If you look at the London average graph below it looks like the average is below 7 for most of November going through as far as May. Quite a different picture to average low and average high. I’m happy now that I made the right choice as most of my driving is done early morning and evening where the average temp will be below 7C and therefore right for my tyres. I’m also surprised that there is so little difference between London and Edinburgh overall. London seemed a lot warmer than Scotland when I lived there!

    Northwind
    Full Member

    mtbmatt – Member

    “I’m sure there are plenty of poor drivers in Scandanavia and other places where winter tyres are compulsory… yet they manage to get through the winter without coming to a standstill.”

    It’s not solely about driving skill, it’s about familiarity with the conditions. You can go for years in this country and never have to drive on snow so it’s not surprising that so many people lack the ability to deal with it. Doubt that’s an option in snowy countries.

    spooky_b329
    Full Member

    There was a link on another thread earlier today to an Autocar test…

    Summer tyres had just 37% of the traction of a winter (not snow) tyre in snow. During braking, a car with summer tyres was still travelling at 35km/h (ish) when the winter tyre equipped car had stopped.

    Winter tyres in summer had over 90% of the traction of a summer tyre in warm dry conditions.

    All season tyres were in the middle.

    Tyre wear and noise between the two types was negligible.

    My van has mud and snow tyres for the past two years. They don’t appear to be wearing any quicker than normal tyres, although the extra sipes that help traction in snow will be worn out about halfway through the life of the tyre as they don’t go down to the carcass, still got the more aggressive tread though.

    I have the M&S snow tyres fitted to the rear driven wheels of my van, normal all season tyres on the front. Lets just say it goes better than it stops in the snow…

    The average temperature thing, taking into account that many people will be commuting early in the morning (generally the coldest period during 24 hours) and in the evening when the temperature has already started falling, you are probably driving in temps below 8 degrees more often than the stats would suggest.

    phinbob
    Full Member

    First trip out with winter tyres on our bog standard 1.6 Focus.

    A total revelation. Passed quite a few stuck cars, including quite a few foci. I was massively impressed, the car felt very surefooted, an recovered really well from any lack of grip.

    These are staying on until the spring!

    DickBarton
    Full Member

    Theres no way you drive through a foot of snow in a berlingo!

    I have…but once the slope got a bit steeper and the snow was deeper than 2/3’s of the wheel arches, it was stuck…summer tyres and it was stuck as they wouldn’t get the grip to go on with the slope…reckon if the road was flat I’d have made it through no probs…

    This was about 4 years back at Carron Valley driving round the forest…massive snow dump and we needed to go exploring lines…Berlingo was faultless…it’s got narrow tyres and a reasonably high floor so providing the slope isn’t that much and the snow is pretty fresh, the Berlingo will cut through it.

    Winter tyres must make the thing superb in the snow (in terms of making it through to your destination)…

    aracer
    Free Member

    I have the M&S snow tyres

    These aren’t ordinary snow tyres…

    martinxyz
    Free Member

    a foot of snow isnt that tricky. i went out in the seat ibiza with winter tyres on the front last year and played around the industrial estate in approx 20 inches of powder/semi compact mix and i learnt how to get out of tricky situations.i got stuck in some places but always managed to get out of trouble. (had a raised landy close to hand if i did get stuck but it didnt happen)

    winter tyres were on all of last year.i left them on through the summer and they wore out after approx 15,000 miles.even when worn,they are amazing due to the compound.

    I had about 4 weeks of 66 mile commute days in snow last year that wouldnt have been possible on summer tyres. the road didnt go black for a long time and the car took less of a salt pounding than normal due to so much snow.

    I agree with devs, they should start making it compulsory. imagine we cut down on all that grit/salt usage throughout the country and gave a small amount to everyone to go towards their new tyres! another thing getting my goat is the footage of police cars spinning around in an inch of snow with the wrong tyres on. Some guy was on tv last night towing a police car. wtf is that all about?! get fookin tyres on the emergency vehicles and save money in the long run. Just how much money has to be spent this winter on replacing or repairing police vehicles? Total bonkers.
    They recon its so tricky to get the winter tyres in the u.k this year as conti etc cant produce enough of them after germany making it compulsory to have them on through winter. apparently.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    a foot of snow isnt that tricky.

    All you experts ought to know that there’s snow and there’s snow.. 🙂

    martinxyz
    Free Member

    found this:
    There is an increasing sense of urgency around the subject of winter tyres, within some parts of the industry. Continental’s consumer web site sums this up when it says, “switch to winter tyres now!” So what will it take to kick-start the winter tyre market?

    There is no doubt that the government has a part to play. Something that would really help the UK market is legislation. A number of other EU countries have made the use of winter tyres a legal requirement and many offer specific winter recommendations. Without legislation, or at least official advice, it is always going to be difficult to encourage people to change life long habits. Even in a country like Sweden, where the need for winter tyres is quite visible, there were still a significant number of motorists driving without the appropriate tyres. That was until the government introduced legislation. In 1999, the government passed a law enforcing the use of season specific tyres. As a result, the total number of motorists using winter tyres went up 10 per cent by 2002, according to the Swedish National Road Administration. That may not sound like a huge amount, but the increase meant that nearly all drivers in the studied area (Östergötland) were using winter tyres.

    Driving abroad – check legislation:

    France
    Switzerland
    Austria
    Italy
    Finland
    Latvia
    Norway
    Sweden
    Slovenia
    Germany
    In the UK, however, there is no legislation and very little in the way of advice. The main authority on the subject, the Highway Code, is less than forthcoming. In fact the official guide, which describes itself as “essential reading for everyone,” has nothing on the subject of winter tyres, and only contains three entries on the subject of tyres in general. The addition of a line explaining how improved grip could be attained by using winter tyres, would improve consumer perceptions of winter tyres no-end. But as we have seen, a legal requirement would be even better.

    So what is the industry doing to register its support for the introduction of legislation, or at least better governmental advice?

    The National Tyre Distributors Association is fully supportive of the introduction of winter tyre legislation, director, Richard Edy, told Tyres & Accessories.

    “The NTDA is a founder member of an organisation called CETRO (Committee for European Tyre Retailing Organisations) which was set up a couple of years ago. CETRO, through its honorary secretary, Ruud Spuijbroek, has been lobbying within the European Commission for a change in tyre laws, including the acceptance that winter tyres are safer to use in the winter months.”

    This is certainly encouraging news, but, according to NTDA chairman, Martin Rowlands, “progress in promoting winter tyres has been slow.”

    Another industry body, the TIC, sees itself as the voice of tyre safety in the UK, but despite this position does not appear to have done anything significant in terms of lobbying.

    The fact remains, as far as the UK government is concerned there is not likely to be any new legislation unless the EU introduces it first.

    It is the same story with tread-depth. According to the AA’s Richard Freeman, in wintry conditions, “it’s true that to be safe you’re better off with 3mm or more.” But as far as Mr Freeman and the AA are concerned, “a change to a 3mm legal minimum would in our view lead to an unacceptable extra cost to drivers, as tyres with tread between 2mm and 3mm are still perfectly serviceable for normal driving for the majority of the year. We recommend a change at 2mm, as beyond that point performance drops off markedly.”

    The problem is, even though a major motoring association recommends changing tyres at 2mm, most consumers read the letter of the law, see 1.6mm and close their mind to the possibility of changing tyres. No doubt it will be the same with winter tyres.

    Consumers aside, the fleet market is absolutely central to a successful introduction winter tyres. If the fleets get on board then it would start a domino effect that would see distributors more inclined to stock them and would ultimately lead to a sharp increase n the use of winter tyres. But the fleets will only pay out if they are obliged to or if there is something in it for them.

    The introduction of governmental advice could lead to insurers offering reduced premiums to people who choose winter tyres. After all, 48 per cent of all accident claims are made during the autumn and winter months. Surely improved grip would reduce the accidents and make winter driving safer for motorists and cheaper for insurance companies. Again a similar scheme is already in operation on the continent. In Germany a driver involved in an accident could be negligent in the eyes of insurers if their vehicle was not using the appropriate tyres. So far, though, insurers have provided the industry with inconclusive responses on the subject. They, like the rest of the industry, are waiting for someone else to make the first move.

    So if legislation has proven to be effective around the EU, and insurance incentives have the potential to create a similar effect, isn’t it about time the UK market made took the lead?

    Source Tyres & Accessories August 2004

    ——————————————————————————–

    France
    The use of winter tyres is not mandatory in France. Nevertheless in some mountainous areas signs warn drivers that snow chains are necessary. In France, drivers of vehicles that weigh up to 3.5 tonnes can use spikes from November until the end of March. Vehicles using spikes are restricted to a maximum speed of 90 km/h on out-of-town roads and 50 km/h in residential areas. In addition vehicles have to bare a badge indicating the use of spikes.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Switzerland
    Winter tyres are mandatory in Austria between 1st November and 15th April for vehicles not using snow chains. These dates may be extended in weather conditions persist.

    Snow chains can only be used if the roads have a complete covering of snow and must be fitted on at least two driving wheels.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Austria
    Winter tyres are mandatory in Austria. The law states that passenger cars with a permissible maximum weight of up to 3.5 tonnes may be operated only between 1 November and 15 April in winter conditions such as snow, slush or ice if winter tyres have been installed on all wheels. All-season tyres are also considered winter tyres if they have the “M + S” mark.

    As an alternative to winter tyres, snow chains may be used on at least two driving wheels, however, these may only be used in case the road is covered by a complete or scarcely broken snow cover or sheet of ice. Failure to comply with the law results in a fine up to 5,000 Euros and the vehicle could be impounded. Insurance is deemed void if a vehicle which is involved in an accident between November 1 and April 15 is not fitted with winter tyres.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Italy
    It is not compulsory to use winter tyres in Italy. Snow chains should be carried and used as dictated by local signs or road conditions – reduced speed limits may apply.

    From 15th October to 15th April vehicles must be equipped with winter tyres or snow chains in the Val d’Aosta area.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Finland
    In Finland winter tyres are compulsory from 1st December to the end of February unless otherwise indicated by road signs. Winter tyres must be marked with the M&S symbol on the sidewall.

    Spiked tyres may be used from 1st November until the first Monday after Easter.

    Snow chains are allowed but only where there’s sufficient snow to avoid any damage to the road surface.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Latvia
    Winter tyres are compulsory from 1st December until 1st March

    Spiked tyres are not allowed from 1st May until 1st October

    ——————————————————————————–

    Norway
    Winter tyres are not compulsory,however snow chains are as dictated by local road signs – in the event that there is ice or snow covering the roads winter tyres or tyres with snow chains must be used.

    Spiked tyres may be used from November 1st until the first Sunday after Easter. If spiked tyres are fitted there is a charge (in Oslo, Bergen and Trondhelm) stickers are available to buy daily, monthly or yearly.

    From October 15th until May 1st you are permitted to use spiked tyres in Nordland, Troms and Finnmark.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Sweden
    Winter tyres which must be marked M&S are compulsory from December 1st until March 31st with a minimum tread depth of 3mm.

    Spiked tyres may be used from October 1st until April 15th but must be fitted to all wheels. Please note that local authorities have the power to ban the use of spiked/studded tyres on their roads.

    Snow chains may be used if weather/road conditions require.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Slovenia
    Snow chains must be carried from November 15th until March 15th (and when the winter weather conditions necessitate) by cars and vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes unless the vehicle is fitted with four winter tyres with a minimum tread of 3mm. Spiked tyres are prohibited.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Germany
    Motorists are obliged to make sure they have correct tyres to suit the winter weather conditions. This may mean the use of winter tyres (with M&S or snowflake symbol) and in extreme weather, the additional use of snow chains.

    Vehicles with summer tyres fitted are not allowed to be driven on roads covered with snow and ice. Fines are in place for vehicles found to be doing so.

    What crap. I have had Nokian WR (winter) tyres on my XC90 for the last 2 years and they’re easily going to last 20k miles which is actually more than the standard Continentals do.

    Jeez – I’ve got 36k out of the Bridgestone Dueller HT’s on my pick-up and they have loads of tread left, albeit they will be getting changed soon, as they are nearly down to the wear indicators.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Summary?

    It’s quite Wintery actually matt……….

    br
    Free Member

    Germany
    Motorists are obliged to make sure they have correct tyres to suit the winter weather conditions. This may mean the use of winter tyres (with M&S or snowflake symbol) and in extreme weather, the additional use of snow chains.

    Vehicles with summer tyres fitted are not allowed to be driven on roads covered with snow and ice. Fines are in place for vehicles found to be doing so.

    We lived in Germany (Dusseldorf) through the winter of 2000/2001, didn’t have winter tyres and barely got an inch (or should that have been 2.5cm) of snow. Biggest problem in Germany is that they all drive the same, whatever the weather… in fact I reckon an unrestricted AutoBahn in the wet is one of the scariest places to be.

    martinxyz
    Free Member

    lol. thats what i scrolled down to type but you beat me to it.

    I just wish the right folk would get a bit more involved and make it compulsory sooner rather than later.I can see it from other peoples points of view like “where will the poor families find the money to keep their cars on the road when its hard enough as it is with fuel costs etc” That would be a pain for a lot of folk,but if it saves lives.. ::sighs::

    Its GREAT Britain though.. stuff never happens.

    dave_aber
    Free Member

    +1 for winter tyres. Just fitted a set for the first time and I can say that they are a revelation. I’ve had plenty of experience driving in snow in the past 25 years in Scotland – always on ‘normal’ tyres. Chains are great, but you really need to get into bother before you’ll get out in the cold (and usually dark) to fit them. I paid £200 for a set delivered and fitted, including steel wheels. I can’t imagine even a minor bump causing me less than £200 worth of grief. Factor in the life of the tyres (hopefully 3-5 winters, and they are a no-brainer.

    The levels of grip, especially under braking where it really matters, are incredible in snow and also impressive on sheet ice. You obviously need to exercise caution, but the margin of safety is so much better.

    Compulsory in winter? I know it’s a big expense for most, but in honesty, the compounded expense of accidents, slow traffic, blocked roads, emergency response, etc, etc do seem to make it worthwhile. Let’s face it, if it makes sense for one car owner to pay for winter tyres as opposed to the cost of having a minor bump without factoring in the additional cost / disruption you can cause to others then it surely scales up to every vehicle on the road as a common sense approach. The only big issue is that of storage. I wouldn’t fancy carrying my dirty alloys up to my flat in November when I’d just fitted my winter tyres. Business opportunity for removals / storage firms there…

    votchy
    Free Member

    20k on a set of car tyres seems pretty good to me

    Jeez – I’ve got 36k out of the Bridgestone Dueller HT’s on my pick-up and they have loads of tread left

    Think the HT’s may have a bit more tread depth than the standard 8mm of car tyres

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