A few manufacturers have brought out aluminium frames at a lower price point than the entry-level carbon frames, but with exactly the same components.

Case in point:

BMC ALR01 and BMC SLR03

I think that the alu even weighs in at pretty much the same point on the scales.

The difference, however, is in the price. The alu bike is about £400 cheaper.

So pretending for a moment that you were interested in one of the two. Which would you go for, and why?

Surprised they weigh the same with same components. If its a decent Carbon frame it should be weighing in around the kilo mark at most, not many alu frames weigh that do they?

In answer to your question – If the frames are the same weight i’d probably go Alu and buy some nicer wheels. Cheaper carbon aint all its cracked up to be (or my PX wasn’t)

I have a Alu and Carbon bike, the Alu one supposed to be a winter hack but I prefer it.

So looking at something new the Trek ALR’s and Canyon AL seem hard to beat, especialy the aero Canyon, great spec 2.3k and a fantastic paint job!

Surprised they weigh the same with same components. If its a decent Carbon frame it should be weighing in around the kilo mark at most, not many alu frames weigh that do they?

Alu frames are at/around the kilo mark now, most carbon frames at the budget end are at best the same, at worst they’re still around 1200g.

About a year or so ago I saw some test results comparing a Ribble and Planet X carbon frame to a reasonably decent big brand alloy frame.
Put it this way, I wouldn’t touch cheap carbon over decent alloy after that!

If its a decent Carbon frame it should be weighing in around the kilo mark at most

The reviews I read put the low-end carbon frame from BMC at 1295g.

Aside from weight, though, what is the carbon like to ride by comparison? My current road bike, which I bought second-hand, is alu, and would have been a similar price point when new, but I have no carbon experience to compare it to. Even my mountain bike, which is much newer, is aluminium.

My Canyon CF SL weighs around 900g and is stiff as a board. The PX Pro it replaced was about 1300 and flexy as hell. IMO theres more to it than ALU vs Carbon. As above I’d avoid a low end carbon frame, unless of course you really want ‘Carbon’..

Its about bottom bracket flex, carbon in principle is easier to make stiff which is a good thing, modern aluminium bikes are not far off though and unless your a watts monster you wont feel any difference.

Comfort is mosty provided by forks, seatpost and tyres.

re weights:

My old Alu frame is about 1500gms
My carbon frame is 1100gms with bottom bracket.
Trek are quoting 1050gms, Canyon 1200 for their new Alu

Second tier modern carbon is usually about 1200, top tier frames are about 800g.

My 2014 alloy Defy is as comfy as my 2008 carbon Roubaix. I’d have no problem choosing a “good” aluminium frame over a cheap carbon one if it was as good a ride but better value.

Though I’m currently lusting after a Kona Roadhouse….

I bought a CAAD10 after having carbon.

Have my eyes on a CAAD12 and I would not buy another carbon frame unless I won the lottery which I haven’t.

Making a bit of a resurgence I think…

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/aluminium-road-bike-comeback

I’d rather have nice alu over cheap carbon.

At what price point do carbon frames tend to become better than good aluminium frames? Genuinely curious!

It depends on i’d say that 1000-1250 pounds is a threshold for a switch from alloy to carbon. I love my 800g Defy, but an Alloy SL frame is almost as nice to ride. It’s unusual to ride similar spec bikes to be honest, and wheels on cheaper bikes are always a place to save. My alloy bike has Ultegra, Kysriums and a Ritchey monocoque fork. Those the fork and wheels are £800 upgrades. The frame is actually inconsequential (and £170 as NOS).

I think wilburt up above there pretty much hit the nail on the head for me,

I’m riding an Alu frame CX bike on the road, it’s comfortouble and the riding position suits me better than an all out road bike, I wouldn’t even contemplate a Carbon Frame from a lower price point. I’ve put HED Belgium+ rims and 28mm tyres on it, a brooks saddle and wider Salsa Cowbell bars, ridden with the new carbon forks on it over the weekend and these with the bigger volume tyres afforded by the wide rims are about as comfy as I need to be on a bike.

Choose a nice Alu frame and build something different up rather than jump on the Carbon band wagon

I’ve hedged my bets and ride an alu framed Bianchi which has carbon seat stays.
Heavier than my wife’s full carbon Planet X frame (mind you it is 3 sizes bigger!) but only by 300g or so. Couldn’t say how differently it rides.
I did used to have a carbon framed bike but got rid fairly quickly as it felt ‘dead’. Was a Focus, probably 8 years ago.
Best riding road bike I ever had was a ti one. Sold it to find a Euro riding trip but regretted it almost as soon as the buyer wheeled it away. Comfy but still seemed to sprint well, absorbed all the road buzz and looked fantastic. Sigh…

About a year or so ago I saw some test results comparing a Ribble and Planet X carbon frame to a reasonably decent big brand alloy frame.
Put it this way, I wouldn’t touch cheap carbon over decent alloy after that!

Well no shit. An old, cheap catalogue frame is not as good as a more expensive frame from a big manufacturer.

Planet X and Ribble brought carbon to the masses many years ago, things have moved on since then. I’d have no worries riding any of their new frames. Although I think the only people that buy them are those that’re training for their first sportive.

Blah blah blah, something about layups, blah blah blah (no one’s mentioned them yet)

I’d get the cheaper one because it’s cheaper. And metal bikes have a nicer aesthetic.

It’s about more than just the frame material though isn’t it?

I reckon quite a big part of the equation is the fork also.
A Full carbon fork is probably in the 450-550g range? Alloy steerer with carbon legs, drags the fork weight up by ~150-200g maybe? but over and above weight it will also affect the ride/comfort side of things…

Full carbon fork, and seat post too? in a well thought out aluminium frame and you can get a good enough ride to make that extra few hundred quid seem like a bit of a waste…

You’ll probably end up hurling the “saving” at posher wheels in the end anyway though…

Entry level carbon frames are closer to 1250g average, good alu is 1100g in some cases, 1300g more common.

Good lightweight alu bikes can ride really nicely so I don’t see a strong argument for lower-end carbon. I think cheap carbon bikes sell as it’s seen as better but it wouldn’t be my choice. Carbon gets interesting when it gets a lot of expertise and experience put into it. You can get good carbon bikes that aren’t that expensive but there’s a lot to sift through.
If anything it’s easier to find the good alu bikes, there’s less smoke and mirrors with metal tubes.

agreed with jameso, cannot see the point in low end carbon?

the magic of marketing “black aluminium”!

cheap carbon is horrible – heavy, wooden and dead feeling, often quite soft under power. heavy because it uses lots of material (cheap cloth and resin)

I owned an entry level “big brand” road frame over 1300gm, good handling because the geometry was same as the top end frames from same brand, but it felt very uninspiring to ride

nice carbon is lovely to ride, but costs good money

I currently own a mid range “big brand” road frame 930gm. beautiful handling and ride quality.

just built this up for my missus, 880gm in small. incredible ride quality. frame retailed for £1299 which was something of a bargain.

nice aluminium alloy is lovely, I’ve owned a good number of decent aluminium frames.

as mentioned, big difference in forks too. full carbon forks 350g, hybrid fork (carbon blade, alloy steerer) easily 600g+

I’ve had both.

Better off with a good aluminium frame and spending the extra on lighter wheels. Full carbon fork and seatpost make a difference.

Aluminium frames are very good these days.

There is an argument for comfort/buzz killing, but tyres etc are wider now which helps a lot there.

A friend has a Ribble carbon race bike and has just built up a Kinesis Aithen alu and he’s setting KOMs and PRs on the Kenesis on his commute to work because it’s lighter and faster than his Ribble.

I couldn’t believe it was an Alu bike when I lifted it up, beautifully made too. Literally liftable with a little finger and he reckoned a better set of wheels could take another chunk of weight off.

Both are super light but the Alu one was remarkable.

Full disclosure: I know nothing more about Road bikes. Never ridden one.

At the risk of spamming but this compared to what you get for the same money in carbon is a no brainer IMO.
7.0kg £1849

CAAD frames are ace 🙂

http://road.cc/content/review/182996-cannondale-caad12-disc-dura-ace

It’s nice not to have to worry about corrosion, though. The winter abuse my carbon bike has had, I’m not sure a light alu bike would have fared so well.

I’m currently experiencing how different 2 aluminium frames at the same price can ride as well.

2013 Defy 1 with Carbon seatpost/carbon forks (as standard) bike was £999 (105 rim brakes)

2016 Arkose 3 with alu seatpost and carbon forks (as standard) bike was £999. (hydro disc brakes)

The Giant is soooooo comfortable even though the Arkose has wider tyres (25mm Gatorskins vs 28mm Gatorskins)

The Arkose, whilst being awesome VFM is very stiff/dead feeling, and I find the fork is so stiff it makes for a harsh ride on crappy roads.
(The lever hoods are also uncomfortable)

Not sure if a carbon seatpost would be a magic bullet, or weather i’ll just get next winter out of it and shift it on..

It kind of depends doesn’t it.

The vast majority of the weight will be in other things, you could probably save more than the difference between a similar level alu and carbon frame with £400, so the alu probably makes more sense if those are the only bikes you’re considering.

The arguments for aluminium over carbon now remind me of the arguments for steel over aluminium 10 or 15 years ago.

Top end aluminium has been nice to ride for over 15 years, the top frames from the likes of Look, Cannodale and Principia were excellent, albeit maybe 200g more than a carbon frame. But with carbon frame prices going crazy then a top end aluminium frame with top components on starts to make a lot of sense again.

But with carbon frame prices going crazy then a top end aluminium frame with top components on starts to make a lot of sense again.

I can see me keeping my Defy AluXX frame for some time for this very reason – more likely to put a new 11-speed group set on it than buy a new bike..

My alloy defy is much comfort over 100k than my carbon frame ever was, carbon was stiff but felt dead, alloy is definitely heavier but comfort wise I don’t know its there

Isn’t this where ‘buy cheap, buy twice’ comes in? As per Freeagent’s experience w/the Arkose?

I was thinking about getting an Arkose but when I look at the one in the bike shed at work, it just looks heavy and thick – nothing like as nice as Cannondale ally frames for e.g.

Best to buy the highest quality frame you can – the one with the best quality and best craftsmanship and design, whatever material it’s made from? Cheap carbon is cheap because compromises have been made, surely?

Great thing about road bikes is with tech changing more slowly than MTB, once you get a good one, it’s a real keeper – so spending ££ on decent quality is better over the long term as you don’t feel the need to buy a whole new bike 2 years later. My Time carbon road bike is 6 years old and there’s no point even thinking about buying anything else – I can’t imagine a bike that would be better to ride even if I spent £4k+

I’m enjoying all the comments about how nice a ride you get from alu frames 😉

‘buy cheap, buy twice’ comes in? As per Freeagent’s experience w/the Arkose?

For balance and I’m not saying he’s wrong as it’s all quite subjective, his comments aren’t the same as most of the feedback and my experiences of the frame and cheap doesn’t mean heavy-spec tubes, they’re down to 1.0mm wall in places. There’s a reason the frame sticks with round and tapered tubes.
But if anyone can do Al well it should be Giant in particular.

For balance and I’m not saying he’s wrong as it’s all quite subjective, his comments aren’t the same as most of the feedback and my experiences of the frame and cheap doesn’t mean heavy-spec tubes, they’re down to 1.0mm wall in places. There’s a reason the frame sticks with round and tapered tubes.
But if anyone can do Al well it should be Giant in particular.

@James – I completely agree – this is just my observation after riding both back-to-back a few times.
I think it might be more to do with the front end/fork being stiffer to accommodate different forces generated by the disc brakes, rather than a crap frameset – I’ve just not ridden any other disc braked road bikes so nothing to compare like-for-like with..

I actually really like the Arkose frame, and the whole bike isn’t significantly heavier than my Defy.

It’s all about the layup. Correctly stacked T1000 will give an elastic modulus (even if not layup orientated) in excess of 113GPa which is significantly in excess of 7075-t6 aluminium at 73GPa, but T700 or resin rich (.25micron) T900 in a similar or poor layup will give a modulus below 60GPa. Factoring in stiffness to weight, A nice t1000 layup using thin plys can give a density around 1400-1600kg/m^3, Whilst 7075 will be closer to 2800kg/m^3 and poor CFRP vloser to 1900kg/m^3 But, drawn tubing can be made thinner than some CFRP tubing due to the requirements to maintain a certain plybook during assembly and the needs to include pads/ramps for the inclusion of dropouts, BBs, Headset cups etc. Its easy to see why ALU is having a comeback and once the new AlLi alloys start to emerge, it’ll be interesting to see what happens to CRFP.

I couldn’t believe it was an Alu bike when I lifted it up, beautifully made too. Literally liftable with a little finger and he reckoned a better set of wheels could take another chunk of weight off.

Both are super light but the Alu one was remarkable.

But as a frame is less than 15% the weight of the whole bike, then the difference between the two becomes <5%. It’s all a bit meaningless. It’s like saying “can I build x frame up to weigh y lbs?”, well… there are plenty of 12lb road bikes out there, so I reckon you could get an entry level B-Twin frame down to 14lbs without much effort (just lots of cash).

I like my Deng Fu, $1000, 920g actual weight, with quite a bit of heavy paint. It’s a bit stiffer than my 2004 1050g Madone SL, but it seems to go faster, and I’m hugely cynical on that sort of thing. Still qualifies as “cheap” carbon though!

My only alu road bike was an Allez which was utterly hateful. Flexy and harsh. Didn’t really go any slower than the Madone though.

Interesting thread, as I currently have an ican bikes carbon cross frame but I’m considering a caad10 disc frame as well, the Ican is a lighter frame and stiff but I’m interested to see how the caad would ride?

once the new AlLi alloys start to emerge, it’ll be interesting to see what happens to CRFP.

LOL. AlLi, the material that is the next big thing in the Aero industry every 10 years, but for some odd reason never makes it onto an aircraft.

philjunior – Member
once the new AlLi alloys start to emerge, it’ll be interesting to see what happens to CRFP.
LOL. AlLi, the material that is the next big thing in the Aero industry every 10 years, but for some odd reason never makes it onto an aircraft.

You mean like the AlLi that’s used in A380s fuselage, A350s wings and Augusta Westlands Merlin helicopter fuselage?

Yeah, no use cases in aerospace whatsoever…

tpbiker – Member
My Canyon CF SL weighs around 900g

Catalogue weight or real world? Add 20% for latter generally.

My Supersix was 1150gm odd despite listing at 950.

The Smartweld Allez is a real 1350gm.

A couple of bike shops around here have taken to writing the bikes actual weight on the price tag, which is quite nice and generally seems to reflect the frame weight as much as anything.

c. 1kg frames with ultegra and basic but decent wheels being 7.5kg whilst more lardy frames and wheels seem to be c. 8.5kg, even for your average mamil (me) thats a difference worth knowing about.