Hi,
Mtb addicted newbie here, looking to buy first decent ht bike, Ideally a cotic soul due to claimed ride quality but with a budget of £1300 my range is alu bike with tubeless (bird zero, orange crush), which I believe the lower tire pressure will improve ride, will the ride be good as cotic soul? Will it flex/power out of berns like the soul?

If soul will be much better then I’m willing to save and increase budget.

Mo

If it’s got the same geometry, IMHO Al will be better (lighter, stiffer). Tyres and seat/seatpost will make all the difference on an HT, but you’ll find you learn to hover over the bumps so it doesn’t matter anyway.

Not sure how the geometry compares of course, it could make a real difference.

There are other steel frames available which might fit your budget:
Pipedream
Ragley
RM.

Tyres don’t make the difference imo. Particularily since you can put the same tyres and pressures on a Soul 😉 But that’s not to say an alu wheel can’t do the same job, because it definitely can. But I went from a Soul to a Ragley Mmmbop and I never forgave the Bop for its stiffness.

But it’s all very handwavey, lots of steel bikes don’t deliver the “steel feel” that beardweavers obsess about- basically the heavier it is the more lumpen it tends to be.

I absolutely loved my Soul, it totally deserved the hype… But they’re not cheap and you could build up a fair bit better spec bike around a cheaper frame which could well tip the odds. And tbh if you’ve not ridden one (which I suspect you’ve not?) do you really know if it’s worth dropping £500 on?

For £1300 I’m sure you can get a Soul. Have you considered second hand? Or maybe a new frame and fork and getting other bits second hand? If you want a steel HT I reckon it will always bug you if you don’t have one.

I know as I have an ALU hardtail now and I’m saving up for a matt black Soul frame 🙂

£1300 will easily get you a steel framed HT, you could assemble a soul build for that money, you could probably build up a carbon frame for that if you wanted…

Titanium is about the only material out of your range really…

Lightweight and compliant.
Sounds like you need Titanium

£1300 will get you the frame – then you can sit and drool over it while you save up for the other bits.

I will never go back to Alu or Steel hardtails. they’re just not as good

I will never go back to Alu or Steel hardtails. they’re just not as good different

ftfy.

My experience is that it varies from frame to frame. I’ve had some fairly brutal steel frames and some that are more compliant than Ti ones I’ve owned.

I wouldn’t try and replicate the feel of a good steel frame by assuming you can play with tyre pressures.

The problem with Alu now is it seems to be for ‘lower end’ hardtails and FS bikes that aren’t carbon so may be less refined than say a Soul.

I would go to an lbs that stocks some of the Genesis hardtails and try a steel and an alu one (I think they still do both) and see which you prefer,

OK – I would consider a nice steel frame if I wanted to save money but not Aluminum. Its just the wrong material for a hardtail. Its super stiff – which is excellent for full suspension but on a hard tail it just gives a punishingly brutal ride.

OK if your racing and want every last bit of energy transferred to the wheels – but if your racing then surely you use carbon which is lighter still.

I suppose thats what you said above – Lower spec bikes in Alu.

I “upgraded” my steel GT Tequesta donkeys years ago to an Alu GT Zascar and it was horrible to ride. Fortunately it got nicked within 6 months.

not Aluminum. Its just the wrong material for a hardtail. Its super stiff

Not always, by any means, some alu bikes have a lovley ride.

a lot of steel frames are stiffer and heavier than they were due to the introduction of the CEN standards i believe.

a lot of steel frames are stiffer and heavier than they were due to the introduction of the CEN standards i believe.

This +1, and some are just stiff anyway.

I’d rather ride an aluminium frame, I just prefer the imediacy of them and the lack of mass. There’s a connected feeling you get with a very stiff lightweight aluminum XC frame that no ammount of “steel is real” compliance can replace.

But I’d rather own a steel frame as they put up with the abuse, theres a big dent in the top tube, plenty of paint missing, it gets locked to railings, and rarely cleaned, but I’d not question it’s strength. Whereas aluminium frames I’ve worn through chainstays!

There are tough aluminium frames too, but they’re further between.

This is a fair bit of (Carbon framed) bike for £1100 IMO…

Then you can spend the spare £200 on whatever you fancy…

Try to get a go on a good 29er hardtail if you can. I wouldn’t go back to smaller wheels on a HT myself.

You could build a nice On One Parkwood on your budget for example.

I don’t think you can compensate with tyres of the frame is super stiff. Surely on on one 456 build would be what your after? Just under a grand so money saved for a dropper.

you don’t think a 456 would be stiff? 😯

(old style) steel 456 was one of the stiffest frames I’ve ridden 🙂

cynic-al – Member 

Not always, by any means, some alu bikes have a lovley ride

Such as?

I have an old mk1 Pipedream Sirius and now a Cotic Bfe. The Cotic is brutally stiff in comparison. I know the Pipedream has stiffened up slightly since for CEN standards (as has the Soul in the same period), but I would expect it to still be an excellent ride. In many ways I prefer the ride feel to the newer Bfe. The Scion is now the closest in the range to the original Siris and looks excellent value although I think they still have 27.2 seat tubes so that limits dropper post use in the future.

If you have 1300 a TI frame is a possibility if you are willing to get some second hand bits for the rest and slowly upgrade. Trouble will be getting decent forks in your budget . Forks are expensive and are also important. You can get fairly decent wheels nowadays for not too much.

One suggestion I would make are the One One 456 evo ti frame. I bought one a year ago and really enjoy it . The ride is compliant without being “twangy” like some ultra light hard tails. It has all the strength I need and has just the right angles for my 140mm revelation air fork, and is light( in fact I had to use a bigger middle ring for climbs!). This bike replaced my dialled alpine which was too much for me . The prices for these are not silly. After lots of years and lots of bikes this one is a keeper for me.

geometry is more important than material imo.

My orange crush was quite literally a pain in the arse. Replaced it with a soul and difference was very noticable. Ragley piglet frame?

thomthumb – Member 

geometry is more important than material imo.

I’d say both are equally important.

I think either can make or break a bike but I think I’d rather have a bike with great geometry and horrible “feel” than the other way around.

Luckily that’s not a choice you really have to make!

bikeneil – Member
cynic-al – Member
Not always, by any means, some alu bikes have a lovley ride

Such as?

Some Giants, Felits, Cannondales and Kenesis frames I’ve owned or ridden.

My mk1 Scandal had a lovely “soft” feel, not springy like my Soul, more damped like titanium. I was still figuring stuff out and I’d pretty much believed the steel is real nonsense up til that, then it turned out an Inbred was stiffer that a Scandal.

Charge Cooker 3 is in your budget

http://www.chargebikes.com/cooker/cooker-3

Also, you should be able to find the Cooker 4 online within your budget.