TBH this thread now has me half considering trying upsidedown Mary bars on my commuter…

Not Jones bars though, I’m just not that rich, niche or bearded…

Its unlikely ampthill as its in his citation.

Readinghis patent its their use for mtb he has applied for.

Jones Bend Bars look similar to On One Fleegle Bars. Very comfy sweep and approx 250g for the Pro version.

EDIT Or halfway between Fleegle and Mary Bars.

I thought the Jones bend bars were 45* back sweep, fleegles are only 15* not sure about the Mary, not actually given on the website, looks like a bit less than the Jones though… Anyone know?

So those stand ones take MTB controls, not road?
ah, my bad, didn’t read the part about MTB controls. Too busy trying to get the shameless olug in….

Are people doing that? MTB controls on drop bars? Shifters on the flats?

I’d give my left plum for a flared drop bar that I could mount mtb hydro levers on (s/Speed, so no shifters).

That’s my point….a flared drop ( think midge etc) set up just like a normal bar…grips, shifters brakes on the grip part of the drops.
I’ve tried marys flipped, but the bend is wrong…I’ve also got an old pair of risers, heated them and bent them in a pipe bender..one side turned out ok, but then made the angle wrong to get the other side right!

that Jones Diamond Unicrown frame, groundbreaking, 😆

CBA working out what the differences are (why should I do something the US patent office can’t be bothered with?) but in a general sense there is doubtless too much prior art for a patent on such bars to be valid except if it’s very specific about the implementation – which would therefore make it trivial to bypass. Though as discussed the US patent office appears to be happy to register patents without bothering with prior art searches and let such things be decided in the courts – hence the Horst link patent which should clearly have been invalid due to prior art. I understand Scott considered fighting that at one point, but backed off – not because they thought they couldn’t win the argument, but because Specialized spend a lot of money on lawyers.

Anyway, I think we all agree this isn’t a patent issue – there certainly isn’t any patent in force which would prevent Alpkit selling totally identical bars. So we come back to the morals – I totally get that Jeff Jones isn’t some huge monolithic corporation and that he shouldn’t be blatantly ripped off – but the question is whether that should prevent others from making similar products for those people who wouldn’t spend £140 on a bar. I’m not convinced there is such a huge amount of Jeff’s IP in those bars – if anything it seems he’s simply popularised the idea rather than invented it.

That’s my point….a flared drop ( think midge etc) set up just like a normal bar…grips, shifters brakes on the grip part of the drops.

Really? When I’m on the drops is when I’d want to grab a brake lever. Up on the flats, I’m just pootling.

Surely the issue here isn’t about patents or morals but about who has the biggest beard?

Nasty corporate man:

Cool hipster dude:

See my point?

Ah yes, but Mike’s Splitty is cooler than a penguin’s pantry, so that has to mean something.

I know they’re supposed to be niche but this
long list of curly whirly, flared and bendy bars for the non-conformist, off-roaderists

suggests the niche is growing to me.
So maybe Jeff should keep an eye out for Mr Sinyard muscling in…

Nothing Jones strikes me as groundbreaking or special in any other way than the visual, but yes it’s a different style to the mbr “norm”. Can you have the geometry on other bikes. Yes. Will it be expensive? Not really.
Jones seems to benefit from a reputation far and above other, arguably more innovative folks, like Rick Hunter of Hunter cycles. It all stinks of a “this looks good and I can flog it under this bumph” design rather than any real utilitarianism.

If you want vertical compliance with lateral stiffness Curtlo or Hunter have linkage and flex designs that don’t introduce so much lateral wobble and a soft tail design would work even more effectively. The truss fork is a neat idea but with the thin curves would need reworking to actually get the fore-aft and torsional stiffness claimed, check out the old merlin project e for example.

(Long, tedious post snipped)

I suppose that he seems to be earning a decent wage doing something he likes, for that, good on him.

So maybe Jeff should keep an eye out for Mr Sinyard muscling in…

And yet Trek already have, under the stealth cover of Bontrager. Hasn’t Keith got a beard? That might explain it.

dunno , i rode a jones for a bit and it was certainly a notable and on the most part exceptional ride.

i came away very impressed but not as was being banded about at the time for a space frame and truss fork in ti from the main mans fair hands £5000 impressed…..

The truss fork is a neat idea but with the thin curves would need reworking to actually get the fore-aft and torsional stiffness claimed

Have you tried one?
They seem about as stiff as you can get to me.
Far stiffer than any fork i’ve ever tried including triple clamp DH forks.

Yes, but not for an extended period.

Edit: Sorry, grumpy this eve. Don’t think it matters so long as you enjoy riding it. Long live diversity

this thread now has me half considering trying upsidedown Mary bars on my commuter…

I really like upside down Mary bars

And yet Trek already have, under the stealth cover of Bontrager. Hasn’t Keith got a beard? That might explain it.

Gary Fisher is more like Trek’s resident beard Sporting niche meister…

Keith Bontrager is more like an actual proper engineer, he had some ideas on bike manufacture that were quite ahead of the times in the 80s/90s…

Of course both got subsumed into the evil corporate monster that is Trek and so are by default “sellouts” if you believe in that sort of drivel…

I picked up a carbon Jones H bar in Bothy bikes at the weekend, I asked Dave the price and promptly put them back down again! 😯

I think I’ll stick with the one like that up there ^ that came with my Longitude frameset 8)

No, I mean that the controls would all be on the drop part….with the top part taped as well. There is obviously a reason why no one makes them, but I can’t see it….surely, with all the people currently wanting ‘monstercross’, there might be a large chunk of em wanting to use their existing hydro brakes and normal shifter?
The only one I can see that would work is the Soma Gator….where in this country?

I don’t need to wear gloves even on the coldest days. The warm ethical glow emanating from my genuine Jones carbon loops bought from an actual bike shop see to that. 🙂

^ 😀

monster cross sounds like suicide cross…. i cant think of a situation where drops with no brake cover would be helpful or clever.

The Fu Manchu bar is a development sample we had at the bike show that we picked for the development table to go with our new bike bags, alloy frame and other new stuff.

So this Fu Manchu bloke is simply some sort of cheap Chinese copy of Jeff Jones? Maybe I’m being obtuse, but surely the blame for all this rests with him rather than the Alpkit guys? It seems slightly xenophobic to begrudge a small – presumably – Chinese man the opportunity to improve his lot by making some curly handlebars. Or have I missed something?

So this Fu Manchu bloke is simply some sort of cheap Chinese copy of Jeff Jones? Maybe I’m being obtuse, but surely the blame for all this rests with him rather than the Alpkit guys? It seems slightly xenophobic to begrudge a small – presumably – Chinese man the opportunity to improve his lot by making some curly handlebars. Or have I missed something?

What you’re missing is this is why our manufacturing sector is almost non-existant. If you’re happy with that fine, I’d rather support those who innovate and manufacture in the UK (I know Jones are American but the same principle applies regarding innovation)

^^ if that’s not a troll post, it’s **** genius!

It seems slightly xenophobic to begrudge a small – presumably – Chinese man the opportunity to improve his lot by making some curly handlebars. Or have I missed something?

I think it all depends on the nature of his beard. Can Alpkit provide a photo?

What you’re missing is this is why our manufacturing sector is almost non-existant. If you’re happy with that fine, I’d rather support those who innovate and manufacture in the UK (I know Jones are American but the same principle applies regarding innovation)

Just so it’s clear, my post wasn’t intended as some sort of macro-economic observation – I’m every bit as in favour of a British Fu Manchu manufacturing in the UK, but I was fundamentally troubled by how the small Chinese man in the shed is being marginalised in this whole debate. I notice he hasn’t posted here, which probably tells you a lot about the situation of small Chinese copycat innovators.

Is that the actual gentleman concerned? I don’t know.

So, not content with ripping off someone else’s design, alpkit decide to nsme their bar after a series of books that were turned into films which caused massive racial tensions at the time. Give it a week or so an alpkit will gave been outed as EDL members and people who are not very nice to kittens.

still shonkier than lance armstrong and Adolf Hitler skull humping a baby seal to death though.

What bar/beard combo for skull humping a baby seal to death?

Now you’re going too far!

Bloody hell, they’ve sown a cat to the sleeping bag as cheap insulation….utter utter evil gits

So, not content with ripping off someone else’s design, alpkit decide to nsme their bar after a series of books that were turned into films which caused massive racial tensions at the time.

I think it’s more likely that Alpkit has simply used a Chinese supplier of that name. Fu Manchu is, I should think, a very common Chinese name.

Yes, but not for an extended period.

So you’re saying a truss fork is only stiff for half a ride???

Mines been stiff for 6 years ;)s is that enough of an extended period for you?

What is it about Jones threads that brings out the the trolls 😉

Lol, the name fu manchu doesn’t exist in China as its a western hybrid invented by sax rhomer for his yellow peril. Would be like a chinese author calling a fictional STW character Dr fatcantrideabikeforshit

Well, there would be no problem finding someone to play the lead role in the movie.

Lol, the name fu manchu doesn’t exist in China as its a western hybrid invented by sax rhomer for his yellow peril. Would be like a chinese author calling a fictional STW character Dr fatcantrideabikeforshit

They said the same about ‘Kylie’ – a fictional character from an Australian soap opera – now the western world is flooded with the name and it has even been adopted by the eponymous singer. I don’t see why ‘Fu Manchu’ should be any different. Your choice of name for a hypothetical STW character is fatuous and ridiculous btw, for a start, the ‘F’ at the beginning should be capitalised. It undermines your whole argument. With the greatest respect and all that.

Yes you’re right BWD, its not like the aboriginal people have been using the word kylie for thousands of years now is it? Never mind though chap. A good effort at a response 😀

now back to those naughty alpkit people and thier evil thieving ways