9yr old coding

I know only a little about coding so can y’all help me with what to use to get my daughter coding?

We have looked at scratch, tynker, code advengers etc. she will use a high spec. laptop to run it.

Don’t mind paying if its a better package, but cost ain’t a guarantee of better.

Aim is to get her doing some little apps and kick start her for when it become part of the curriculum.

So which package(s) and what languages would be good with her?

Cheers

Look at the Raspberry Pi lots of resources on teaching/learning and probably the best choice of coding languages to install as needed.

Plus if you screw it up it’s easy enough to wipe the OS and re-install, unlike the laptop which will take hours/days to sort out.

https://www.codeclub.org.uk/%5B/url%5D got one of these nearby?

http://www.codecademy.com/learn

I cannot help on the specific language that would be advantageous, but have you looked at finding a local CodeClub[/url]?

The government’s Year Of Code initiative was supposed to help, but…well:

I know only a little about coding…

Depressingly, you’re over qualified to be in charge of the government’s Year Of Code initiative.

Get depressed from 5:40.

Lego Mindstorms (the older sets are reasonable prices on eBay). Beware that USB support for the IR tower only comes with version 2.0 or later.

You can program in Lego’s own environment – which uses a block structure and is an excellent introduction – and then move on into LegOS, which is Java based. Or install BrickOS, or many many others.

Alternatively…

http://turtle.hertford.ox.ac.uk/index.html

Turtle Java is a fun introduction.

OK will look for code club good shout cheers.I’m in trouble, she’s 10 not 9 and is reading this post!

A high end laptop is fairly pointless if you ask me. Raspberry Pi all the way and how about learning some python?
http://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/#minecraft-pi-recipe-cards-to-download-and-keep

My daughters just done the app course at school, she’s 15. Although it’s so dumbed down with a GUI it’s fairly pointless IMO. Before that they learn HTML which is more useful.

Have to ask what you’re hoping to achieve though. Useful stuff to do programming jobs is going to be at A-Level and above or self taught as an adult.

You don’t need to know how to ‘code’ (what ever that means) unless you’re a programmer anyway. And that’s not the most lucrative of career paths. If you think they’re gonna invent a new facebook, keep dreaming.

You don’t need to know how to ‘code’ (what ever that means) unless you’re a programmer anyway. And that’s not the most lucrative of career paths. If you think they’re gonna invent a new facebook, keep dreaming.

Of course you don’t need to learn to code…

But, it really depends on what coding means and where you want to go.

Is SQL, VBA, J-script, XML coding? lots of computing jobs that aren’t purely coding where some knowledge helps.

Then again you could become a plumber…

Personally I’d look to see if there is some sort of club in your area. A bit more social and more likely to keep her interest.

If you think they’re gonna invent a new facebook, keep dreaming.

Probably not, but who knows. Worth giving them the skills to find out

You don’t need to be able to code to invent new websites. I don’t think many of these dotcom success stories are created by coders these days.

I’d do something like the PI with some hardware (just some LED’s to start with). Just writing code to make the LED’s flash in sequence is pretty good, and a lot of coding isn’t PC based, it does things, makes things move etc.

It would never be a codling at 9 yrs old. Anything under about 5 ish pounds is a codling, over that it’s a cod.

OHHH! 9yr old CODING!

Soz, should’ve gone to Speckysavers!

Going by Jamies link to the newsnight thing. Clearly they are thinking that this could be beneficial, but essentially haven’t a scooby what that benefit is.

Instead of marketing it as everyone should learn how to code or write markup, they should market as everyone should learn to understand the concept of what it is and how it relates to real life work, ie. if someone needs a website or app built or something more complex, it would be beneficial to them if they knew a vague concept of the ins and outs so they could communicate their ideas to who they employ to do it for them. I’ve personally had the joy of witnessing complete technophobes directing how sites are built, it’s not a pretty thing(It’s very easy for unscrupulous types to run rings around them and use them as a money pit.).

Well either that or in 10/20 years time the interweb will largely resemble 1998! 😆

So imo the intention is noble, they just clearly haven’t a scooby about what the ultimate goal should be..Which should be a lot more geared towards innovations and ideas, something which you don’t need to code for, just be able to communicate to coders and designers.

Whilst something like a Pi or similar embedded computer allows one to start coding without knowing anything about how it actually works, i would personally recommend starting with something like a basic Arduino etc.
That way, they get to understand how a microcontroller/microcomputer actual executes the tasks that the coding defines etc!

This, imo, makes for a much better “code writer” in later years!

At the age of 9 forget the Pi and Arduino. Far too many variables and other things to cause frustration.

Scratch is ideal, then maybe some html/css leading into javascript. Code academy is really useful as well. I speak from proper experience as my daughter did just this.

The key was the OP stating ” know only a little about coding” so why recommend embedded system programming apart from intellectual speedwanking?

Jamie,

Lottie Dexter is indeed very depressing even though she got Paxo Lite in the interview..

Tend to agree there. If it’s high level language (Python etc. – never used scratch, so can’t comment), then you’re not going to trash a laptop/PC enough to nuke it and start over. It’ll be the surfing the net and installing viruses that trashes it. And then you just reinstall everything.

Pi+Arduino are fun though if you want to plug things in, make robots, etc.

More of more of the coding in my technical area is being done in India 🙁

I dabbled with BASIC as a kid, and more recently a bit of scratching in html/asp/php. I’m not sure if the language you code in is really important, rather it’s the practice of thinking in a structured/logical manner.

Coding isn’t just about writing programs or websites. How many careers use Excel or similar for data analysis? Engineering, finance, medicine…

Anyway, I bought a book on Python for my 10yr old and run Python on Windows.

There’s also Alice for generating animated stories – some point and click but with use of coding principles close to the surface.

Not exactly coding, but some fun to be had with Lightbot[/url] – controlling a robot with instructions and uses subroutines for repetitive actions.

As others have said: Lego Mindstorms[/url] is a great combination of programming and construction/assembly – and there’s at least one app similar to Lightbot[/url].

I’m not sure if the language you code in is really important, rather it’s the practice of thinking in a structured/logical manner.

this

More of more of the coding in my technical area is being done in India

but definitely not this

The government’s Year Of Code

If this thingummy can make those geeky computery things seem a bit less nerdy then it will be a Good Thing ™ for UK plc, which needs more tech savvy engineers / coders / etc.

If this thingummy can make those geeky computery things seem a bit less nerdy then it will be a Good Thing ™ for UK plc, which needs more tech savvy engineers / coders / etc.

It won’t.[/url]

it’s the practice of thinking in a structured/logical manner

The thing is though, from my many discussions on this subject, it’s really not that hard to do. Most people are capable of breaking thing down into a series of steps and, if you provide the framework, they can specifiy things explicitly. Training this isn’t going to lead to lots of new programmers emerging, imo.

Having a successful career in development requires that you

a) want to do it
b) enjoy navigating through loads of details to get something perfect
c) have the patience to wade through APIs and not get frustrated or bored
d) have the ability to spend all day concentrating on a computer

In other words, you need to be a geek. Non-geeks may be able to do it, but they probably won’t enjoy a career in it. I’ve trained intelligent non-geeks who can code, but it’s uphill.

As long as kids are exposed to development and other areas of IT, and borderline geeks aren’t put off by it not being ‘cool (which I don’t think happens) people will probably find all the coders we will find. I think they are born, not made.

As for which language/platform – I don’t think it matters a lot. I’d go for many different platforms, with some real world results.

DavidB

The key was the OP stating ” know only a little about coding” so why recommend embedded system programming apart from intellectual speedwanking?

Because something like an Arduino is about as “seamless” as embedded processing gets! I know plenty of “coders” who even now have no idea how a processor actually works, and you can see that in poorly optimised code they write!

Also, Arduino has such a worldwide support base, whatever issue you come across (and you will ALWAYS come across something that is frustrating!) has already been both discussed and solved somewhere on the WWW (lots of good forums etc).

Then we get to the fact that using something like a Arduino to even flash and LED is much more “hands on” and as a result, rewarding to children and teenagers wanting to get started in the electronics field etc. Lets face it, your 10yo isn’t going to go out and write and video/Mp3 media server app for their rasberry Pi as a starter, so having a platform that starts very simply, but introduces them to the higher level concepts in a measured manner is important imo 😉

It won’t.

Yeah, maybe not, actually.

Is there a credible alternative going on?

can she google? I need some SQL doing

I know plenty of “coders” who even now have no idea how a processor actually works, and you can see that in poorly optimised code they write!

Yes, but she’s 9 ffs. That can come later. Waaay later 🙂

<More of more of the coding in my technical area is being done in India>
but definitely not this

What do you mean?

I think they are saying outsourcing is a bad thing for UK jobs.

There are some really good answers already from people who clearly know a lot about programming; Molgrips sums up my view on programming really well, particularly about programmers being born, not made. My only qualification in this is failing to get my 10 year old daughter interested in coding so treat this advice accordingly:

In my opinion you are getting answers from two groups, hardware and software developers. If you and your daughter are interested in hardware the then the an Arduino or Lego is a good option as you are working with a tangible thing.

If you are interested in software stick with the laptop and use a language with an Integrated Debugging Environment (IDE) that way you can visualise the execution of you code and see why it isn’t working. Don’t try to code using notepad and a separate compiler/linker etc.

Take a look at Pencil Code[/url] and book by David Bau its based on his experience teaching children to code.
If you want the try Java with and IDE there is Greenfoot.

The best advice I can give is find a problem you want to solve and work on it together, There is nothing like having/wanting to do something to motivate your learning. Take a look at /r/DailyProgrammer and try to implement Rock Paper Lizard Spock[/url], Hangman or Guess the Number.

Lean together and treat it as pair programming

Java isn’t a bad option actually as once you’re up and running it’s fairly easy to create a GUI which will look like a ‘real’ piece of software, rather than something from an educational environment. If you use Netbeans there’s a visual tool for creating Windows and dialogs which is great fun. Although come to think of it you can do that with VB too.

Take a look at /r/DailyProgrammer and try to implement Rock Paper Lizard Spock, Hangman or Guess the Number.

Good idea actually. Fun challenges. I think there’s far more scope in that than getting a Pi to do make you tea or flash lights in morse code or whatever.

I’d say any language that lets you see the results very quickly without faffing around with dialog boiler plate coding would be better.

You would need them to get interested in it before exposing them to the full horror of Java Swing or Eclipse RCP! 🙂

I think there’s far more scope in that than getting a Pi to do make you tea or flash lights in morse code or whatever.

You need to go and look at some of the stuff people have been creating on the Pi website. It’s a lot more than that.

I’d say any language that lets you see the results very quickly without faffing around with dialog boiler plate coding would be better.

+1

I’d say any language that lets you see the results very quickly without faffing around with dialog boiler plate coding would be better

Depends what the results are. I still get a kick out of making an actual application window come up, it’s much cooler than seeing a few numbers in a text window IMO. Especially when I was 9.

And if you use Netbeans you are protected from the boilerplate code – it’s really easy.

even better still if the gui dialog builder app is drag/drop and does away with or hides all the vbox/hbox layout nonsense.

You would need them to get interested in it before exposing them to the full horror of Java Swing or Eclipse RCP!

I don’t think I’d recommend using Swing or RCP for anything these days, I like Java, think that its going to be the next Cobol (and I mean that in a good way) and in the interests of full disclosure its keep a roof over my head for the last 5 years or so.

If you asked me what to use to develop a graphical user interface for a rich client windows application I’m not sure what I’d suggest.

IIRC they give you an absolute layout manager that lets you plonk what you want where you want. Similar to using a null layout manager.

GrahamA – we’re talking about doing something cool and fun, not building career skills. She’s 9 years old remember!