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Anyone else think that number seems quite high?
It sort of implies that if you approach red lights with 10 cyclists then 6 of them will charge on through. Whereas the survey question was actually "have you EVER jumped a red light?"
Funnily enough IAM seem less keen to publicise the 32% of drivers that also admitted the offence.
No, seems about right from my experience. (Both figures)
it's annoying isn't it - been following Carlton's tweets this am and IAM aren't backign down on it at all.
His point about the '60%' figure being quoted in perpetuity as the 'correct' number of RLJing cyclists is a good one too.
From my experience that might be correct for London but I'd have thought it lower here in Edinburgh.
its ok I have stw that article and just repeat this
Ninety-four per cent of cyclists have seen a driver cross an advanced stop line*And 43 per cent said they would be less likely to jump red lights if advanced stop lines were more strongly enforced
It the cars that make us do this for our own safety
that actual stats are
yes - 2.2%
Yes sometimes, 11.1%
Rarely - 23 %
Once or twice - 19.8 %
Never 43.9 %
Its like they have an agenda or an arts student doing the sats 😀
This may be abog city issue where there are lots of traffic jams it is not an issue where I live - cycling on the pavement is but as I point out this is just someoen who owns a bike not a cyclist
No, seems about right from my experience.
The actual IAM figure for those responding: "Yes, frequently" was 2.2%
Even "Yes, sometimes" only amounted to 11.1%
I'd love to see the stats for "As a driver have you ever exceeded the speed limit?"
99.99% ?
based on my commute i seem to be the only one that stops ....
most folk seem to think that cutting onto the pavement is an acceptable throughfare .....
82.5% of statistics are inaccurate 🙂
The actual IAM figure for those responding: "Yes, frequently" was 2.2%
Even "Yes, sometimes" only amounted to 11.1%
Pretty much every set of lights I come to with a cyclist in front (whether I'm in car or on bike) the cyclist runs the red, drives me nuts. Seen so many near accidents.
50% of the time I run red lights every time.
Anyone who has cycled on the road would probably have to answer "Once or twice" if they were being truly honest and had a good memory.
e.g. I had to ride through temporary traffic lights the other day because they weren't activated by my bike.
e.g. I had to ride through temporary traffic lights the other day because they weren't activated by my bike.
TBH I'd walk it.
Pretty much every set of lights I come to with a cyclist in front (whether I'm in car or on bike) the cyclist runs the red, drives me nuts.
Maybe it is area dependent. I see a few cyclists on my commute (by bike or car) and I can't remember the last time I saw one bust through a red.
I do see some crawl beyond the stop line, to position themselves ahead of traffic, which I [i]guess[/i] counts, but isn't really the same thing.
TBH I'd walk it.
No pavements, so I'd just have been moving more slowly in the same amount of danger (which was minimal as I could see the other end of the roadworks anyway).
LOL at slimjim.
I had to ride through temporary traffic lights the other day because they weren't activated by my bike.
We had to do this yesterday (on a tiny backstreet, there were no cars at either end), I also had to bail onto the pavement at another set of temp lights because the timing was set up for 30mph cars not 15mph bikes and I would have been flattened if I carried on down the narrow barriered roadworks lane.
Which raises the question: how many cyclists would jump reds if junction designers ever considered the needs of cyclists when laying stuff out and working out timings, etc? It seems to me that most cyclist/motorist friction occurs because we have to fit into a system that doesn't make any sensible allowance for our presence whatsoever.
The way the figures are reported gives a very misleading & unbalanced view.
However.
I don't remember the last time I saw a motorist jump a red light, but I see two or three cyclists every day jumping or running reds, or using the pavement to bypass a junction.
There aren't very many cyclists on my suburban commute, so 'two or three' accounts for at least half.
Which raises the question: how many cyclists would jump reds if junction designers ever considered the needs of cyclists when laying stuff out and working out timings, etc? It seems to me that most cyclist/motorist friction occurs because we have to fit into a system that doesn't make any sensible allowance for our presence whatsoever.
It's being worked into most new junctions but there are thousands of old designs which cost a fortune to re-time I believe, so don't hold your breath.
No pavements, so I'd just have been moving more slowly in the same amount of danger (which was minimal as I could see the other end of the roadworks anyway).
Bit stuffed then I guess!
"I do see some crawl beyond the stop line, to position themselves ahead of traffic, which I guess counts, but isn't really the same thing."
not really
not every junction has an advanced cyclist box - unless you ride it everyday you dont know this
so what do you do - position your self inside the front car (after you filtered to the front as per the rules to find no advance box.....) where the driver may not see you , to the outside where he may not see you - or go to the front where he will obviously see you without you relying on him using windows and mirrors to seeing you
Not surprised by that figure really, even if the question had been 'regularly jump red lights'. I'd say at least 60% of the people commuting by bike through the south side of Glasgow jump red lights. I'm not one of them.
don't remember the last time I saw a motorist jump a red light
Those are extreme examples from one guys city commute, but I see motorists almost every day who blitz through amber or [i]just-turned-red[/i] lights. And a car doing that poses a far greater danger than a squishy cyclist who is only likely to kill himself.
[url= http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/traffic-note-8-cycling-red-lights.pdf ]TfL monitored multiple junctions, counted 7502 cyclists, and found around 16% of them violated red lights (PDF)[/url]
I'd say the figures are about right.
When I'm in pack mentality in That London I'd say the figure is correct, if you segregate Boris Bikes I'd say the figure is about 90%.
If you add in "riding down a oneway the wrong way" then BorisBike'ets will account for 98% of that population.
Different matter in rural Hants though.
mintimperial - MemberWhich raises the question: how many cyclists would jump reds if junction designers ever considered the needs of cyclists when laying stuff out and working out timings, etc? It seems to me that most cyclist/motorist friction occurs because we have to fit into a system that doesn't make any sensible allowance for our presence whatsoever.
This is the critical thing - at the moment roads are engineered to keep the flow of cars high - with some allowances for buses that cycles can share. re engineering so that the needs of cyclists were seriously considered would make a huge difference to safety - whether it be a light that goes green 10 seconds ahead of the cars allowing you to clear the junction, a proper lane or whatever is appropriate for that junction
I don't remember the last time I saw a motorist jump a red light
It happens all the time, but it's different in that cars tag onto the end of streams of traffic and cross when the lights have changed, so you don't notice it so much. I suppose it's not quite as dangerous, but that has to be at least in part because it's so normal it's expected. Still, I've seen near misses a couple of times where someone a bit keen who knows the timings has set off on red-amber whilst two or three cars have carried on through on red behind a bus or lorry going slower than expected.
What's the [i]purpose[/i] of their survey and publicising those figures?
I've never seen it as the IAM's aim to discredit cyclists in the past.
so what do you do - position your self inside the front car (after you filtered to the front as per the rules to find no advance box.....) where the driver may not see you , to the outside where he may not see you - or go to the front where he will obviously see you without you relying on him using windows and mirrors to seeing you
I find it much safer to take my position as a piece of traffic and stay in my position in a queue rather than go to the front. I just don't agree that ASLs are safer, a) they put you back in front of someone who just overtook you and b) that cheeses them off and makes them dive past you dangerously again and c) you risk getting first impact from the morons who RLJ. Much like cycle lanes I feel they're a nod towards placating cyclists without actually identifying how they function in practice, especially when not universally applied.
I run them and always will, self preservation is the name of the game. As long as I'm not hurting anyone in the process, there's no issue.
Coffeeeking - even if it means sitting thru several cycles of the lights? actually if the cars didn't bother overtaking you they would end up in the same place in the next traffic queue usually
I think its a tiny minority of car drivers who drive legally - =obeying speed limits and leaving enough space for cyclists along with illegal parking and using bus lanes are the main issues
I blame Strava
What's the purpose of their survey and publicising those figures?
I've never seen it as the IAM's aim to discredit cyclists in the past.
https://www.iam.org.uk/cyclist
Which makes this all the more baffling?! I for one look forward to cycling being more enjoyable and safer after this inflammatory piece of shonky research hit the press 🙁
Coffeeeking - even if it means sitting thru several cycles of the lights?
Yup, the only time I'll feed to the front is if I'm going to be going left at that junction and I can see the lights have only just that second turned red so they're not going to move off when I'm filtering forward, and I do that without filter lanes anyway if the road is wide enough, but you need to be careful the first vehicle isn't a non-indicator or a wagon obviously. Any doubt, stay in place.
actually if the cars didn't bother overtaking you they would end up in the same place in the next traffic queue usually
I know, but I can't control car drivers, I can control me. And it makes far more sense for me not to push to the front to get overtaken again by an irate "I WANNA GET HOME, WHY DID YOU UNDERTAKE ME TO GET IN FRONT ONLY TO GET ME TO OVERTAKE AGAIN?" person. Just don't see the point in it.
I run them and always will, self preservation is the name of the game. As long as I'm not hurting anyone in the process, there's no issue.
As I've mentioned in the past and almost had on video once (had I not forgotten to hit record) RLJs do cause a danger to others. Other road users may not be expecting you to be there and can and do take very odd evasive action to avoid the unexpected, sometimes endangering 3rd parties. Of course you can always claim "I only do it when it's safe" but then most people would say they only speed when it's safe or they only use the phone where it's safe but both of those are frowned upon.
TJ (and other Edinburgers) did you see the piece in the Evening News the other day?
[url= http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/police-collar-138-drivers-and-cyclists-in-traffic-crackdown-1-2279522 ]Police collar 138 drivers and cyclists in traffic crackdown[/url]
Officers stopped [b][u]106 motorists[/u][/b] for entering Advanced Stop Lines (ASL) – red boxes designed to allow cyclists a head start at traffic lights – during an operation along North Bridge.A total of [b][u]26 cyclists[/u][/b] were stopped for jumping red lights and six more for cycling on pavements as part of the “Drive Safe, Cycle Safe” initiative.
More here: http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6253
Damn cyclists ignoring the rules! 🙄
What was the percentage of passage though? 106 motorists out of how many total flow, same with the cyclists? Outright numbers prove nothing in either direction.
As I've mentioned in the past and almost had on video once (had I not forgotten to hit record) RLJs do cause a danger to others. Other road users may not be expecting you to be there and can and do take very odd evasive action to avoid the unexpected, sometimes endangering 3rd parties. Of course you can always claim "I only do it when it's safe" but then most people would say they only speed when it's safe or they only use the phone where it's safe but both of those are frowned upon.
Yeah, so....
What was the percentage of passage though?
Not stated, though Edinburgh is a very popular city for cycling (especially as half the centre roads are impassable due to the tramworks).
Does it matter though? Taken to extremis: if five thousand drivers go through a red light and the only cyclist that day also does, then you could say that 100% of cyclists jumped the red. While that may be accurate it is clearly [u]not[/u] "the problem".
^ It is also difficult to measure because every cyclist who comes up to a red light has the opportunity to jump it while only the first car in the queue can infringe the ASL.
I see motorists jumping red lights very single day. This morning I saw 2 double decker buses jumping properly turned red lights, and at the 127 sets of traffic lights I pass on my commute each way at all of the red lights there were always cars or motorbikes in the advanced stop box. Tbh when I get there and find a motor vehicle sitting in the box I keep going as its actually not safe to stop as a cyclist.
Oh, and thanks to the ignorant bitch driving an Audi estate who pulled out right across me as I was riding at just under 30 mph onto the Wandsworth one way system this morning. Just think next time that you're not going to get away from an angry cyclist in London unless you run red lights as well - although she did drop her mobile phone when I turned up at the next set of red lights and hammered on her window.
When Im commuting I can be a c*** whether Im cycling or whether Im driving.
When I relaxed and not in a tush I tend to be a good/considerate cyclist/driver.
I would therefore suggest banning commuting before discussing any other changes that need to be made.
I saw 2 double decker buses jumping properly turned red lights
Yeah see this is part of the problem. The popular idea of a "just turned / slightly red".
Any red light is "properly turned", because the amber phase [u]also means stop[/u] and it is still an offence to go through an amber unless it was impossible to stop safely.
at the 127 sets of traffic lights I pass on my commute each way at all of the red lights there were always cars or motorbikes in the advanced stop box
Yep and that is also a popular "jumping red lights" offence which is largely ignored and somehow doesn't count.
I did like one of Carlton's tweeters who pointed out IAM could have chosen to report [i]exactly the same figures[/i] as [b][i]"87% of cyclists never or rarely jump red lights"[/i][/b].
Lies, damn lies and statistics.
Any red light is "properly turned"
Fully agree, but like Andrew I regularly see motorists jump lights on busy roads some seconds after they've changed to red - ie there's no possibility that they 'couldn't have safely stopped in time' which is the the defence against passing on Amber
A couple of times in the last week I've seen vehicles pull out and overtake the car in front when it has stopped at amber.
What, 57% have run through a red light ever? Bah. I guess I'm branded in the naughty book. There used to be a dodgy junction near here, the positioning meant cars would try and race and turn infront of you every time. I did occationally just go when the pedestrians were going when I could see the car next to me was going to be an arse.
No junctions like that on my current commute, haven't been in that situation in years.
One guy I work with just used to chase the cars and bang on their bonnet with his fist, could have been worse 😛
Waves at Si!
I might call round to say hi sometime soon as I cycle near yours on my new commute.
if you'd have asked my how many cyclists I see jumping red lights (in London) I'd have said 50-60% at any given crossing when there was a gap in traffic or the pedestrian (green man) signal was on.
asking people if they would jump a red light is a daft question.
So what % of car drivers obey the highway code always? o0.00001%?