[Closed] 57% of ALL cyclists run red lights, according to IAM?!?

So what % of car drivers obey the highway code always?

what %ge have a clue what's in it?

Friday evening.

Going into the Imax junction before Waterloo station, Woppit sees a bunch of cyclists stopped at the red light. He has a quick look and can't see anything coming from the feeder road on the left so stamps on the pedal and shoots into the empty space... just in time to catch the briefest image, out of the corner of his left eye, of... a car. Right there. Virtually on top of him and so close that neither he or the car driver had time to react.

There being less than a razor's width of time difference between absolute catastrophe and staying alive in Woppit's favour, the car passed ascloseasthis to his back wheel (insert sound effect of rapidly vibrating rectal cavity here).

A split second earlier and Woppit would have suddenly become a screaming, twisted and bloody mess all over the tarmac from being hit broadside on, so: Hmmm. Yes. Stopping at red lights goooood. Jumping red lights baaaad.

Stopped at all the red lights this morning.

Felt smug.

you've already posted that Woppit.

What have dodgy stats about cycling got to do with manufacturers of dog food? My dog can't ride a bike, but if he could I'm quite sure red lights would be the last thing on his mind. He'd be thinking, "oh my god I'm riding a bike" or "can I smell bacon". And I don't even own a dog.

Institute of Advanced Madeupstatistics.

Teh Grauniad has got hold of the story. Good coverage but some of the readers comments are depressing.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/may/14/cycling-red-light-jumping-iam-survey

What, 57% have run through a red light ever?

Yep. That's why it is 100% meaningless.

if you'd have asked my how many cyclists I see jumping red lights (in London) I'd have said 50-60% at any given crossing

Well the TfL survey mentioned earlier said 16%, from monitoring 7500+ cyclists at five junctions in London in 2007.

I'd suggest it the actual figure is very dependent on where you are in the country and which junctions you monitor.

127 traffic lights on a commute!!!

I am gobsmacked by this stat

I am going to have to have a lie down just thinking about it

A split second earlier and Woppit would have suddenly become a screaming, twisted and bloody mess

As it was he just started referring to himself in the third person.

Graham approves of this.

brakes - Member
you've already posted that Woppit.

Well spotted. Top of the class. 🙄

Well the TfL survey mentioned earlier said 16%, from monitoring 7500+ cyclists at five junctions in London in 2007.

2007 was a loooong time a go with respect to cycling in London.
I've said this before but I've been cycle commuting here since 2006 and there are far, far more cyclists on the roads than there were 5 years ago.

Well spotted. Top of the class.

thanks Sir.

I'da waved at you Mr Wappit for I was there, at that Imax roundabout nr That Waterloo, on Friday Eve.. along with 4bn other commuters running red lights and trying to catch the train home. Nice eve it was too. I came down Temple to find a bucket of Barristers and Clerks hanging out of the pub on the corner..
Rather fancied joining them I did.

Waves at Mr Wappit, cooo'eeeee over here, black Dahon, no helmet.

2007 was a loooong time a go with respect to cycling in London.
I've said this before but I've been cycle commuting here since 2006 and there are far, far more cyclists on the roads than there were 5 years ago.

Agreed, but I doubt the figure has changed that significantly outside of our glorious capital.

My brief experiences of London traffic suggested that [i]everyone[/i] considered amber to mean [i]"hurry up"[/i] and red to mean [i]"still go if it is has been less than 5 seconds"[/i].

So I'd suggest that 16% figure could well be quite reasonable for the rest of the country. It'd be nice to have a [u]properly conducted[/u] nationwide survey to see the facts.

Sadly the IAM one is far from that.

but I see motorists almost every day who blitz through amber or just-turned-red lights. And a car doing that poses a far greater danger than a squishy cyclist who is only likely to kill himself.

[url= http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=quay+street+manchester&ll=53.480164,-2.255427&spn=0.002043,0.004351&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Quay+St,+Manchester,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.480279,-2.25555&panoid=cIx18YrA1kDXmAykWfK0Bw&cbp=12,149.11,,0,15.54 ]These lights[/url] have got precisely sod all buffer time between one set going to red and the other changing to green so have had and seen quite few near misses due to only-just-red twunts.

What a load of pap from IAM

I am back doing a central London cycle commute as of last week. The closest I've come to a crash was a female cyclist jumping a red and turning across in front of me as I was going straight ahead through a green light. Missed by about 12", largely because I braked.

Then there was the car in moving traffic getting ever closer to me and the kerb. When I looked the driver was no hands on the steering wheel digging his mobile out of his pocket before proceeding with one handed steering and chatting over the phone.

Then there was the parked van driver opening his door right in front of me when I was descending a hill.

NEXT?????????

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/may/14/cycling-red-light-jumping-iam-survey?CMP=twt_gu

+ a squillion, alright RLJ cyclists are not always only a hazard to themselves but still a lot less of a hazard than those pesky drivers.

I agree, but just because they're less of a threat doesn't mean it isn't bloody stupid, dangerous and something which should not be tolerated. That's like saying ignore all the other wars in the world because war X is a bit more feisty.

I agree, but just because they're less of a threat doesn't mean it isn't bloody stupid

Completely agree coffeeking - but it does show how misdirected the public anger (not to mention funding) is when it comes to these issues.

That's like saying ignore all the other wars in the world because war X is a bit more feisty.

To stretch your analogy further, if you only have the funds to fight one enemy do you tackle the enemy killing 1 person per year or the one killing several thousand?

I see the CTC have added a nice quote to Teh Grauniad article along those very lines:

[b]"Of pedestrians injured in London in a collision caused by red light jumping, only 4% involve cyclists, whereas 71% occur when a car driver jumps a red light and 13% when a motorcyclist does."[/b]

I don't jump red lights myself, in a car or on the bike. I agree it IS bloody stupid.

But bogus headlines like this IAM one get Joe Public all enraged about [i]"law-breaking cyclists"[/i] while completely ignoring that it is the [i]law-breaking motorists[/i] that are killing them.

i like that CTC quote very much

i know quite a few junctions where drivers regularly continue to accelerate through well beyond the amber - if at front of line you just don't pull away until they've passed through even though you've got green - seems to have increased a lot in last few years and i can only assume that its because traffic police as such have virtually disappeared and there is little liklihood of being caught - that and f u attitude

oh and last week on a pelican had two cars drive straight through well after light red - one turned out of a junction at speed and just decided to hammer it (i've taught my kids the green man doesn't mean cross - you cross when the cars have actually stopped - second just didn't register the crossing)
mind you my daughter did ask the other week why the cyclist was in the middle of the road - i had to explain that he was running the red light and was half expecting us to step off the kerb in front of him ho hum

I've started RLJing on one bit of my new commute, the lights don't get activated by me, and there's often big gaps in the traffic that mean I can do so safely.

Where's AnalogueAndy to defend IAM?

I've done various studies of my own over the years in several towns and cities including London. Not exactly scientific but easy to do on a regular commute. Ride as normal for a week - maybe a few RLJs, one or two bits of pavement riding or wrong-way-down-a-one-way-street, whatever your normal style of riding is.

Then do a week of obeying every rule of the road to the letter. Never jumping lights or riding on the pavement, indicating every move, generally being a model citizen.

Then tell me which is the most dangerous. I guarantee it'll be option 2. Every single time I've tried this little experiment (at different times of the year, different cities) I've had more near misses than with option 1.

I'm not reckless, I don't go hurtling through every single red light but there are a few junctions where it's safer for me to "anticipate" the lights than to obey the rules of the road to the letter.

I tried it again tonight riding home, being a good rider. In that time I counted 12 drivers on the mobile (2 of them texting) and when I stopped in my ASL at one junction, the car which had until then been stopped legally behind it decided that my presence meant he could edge forward until he was back in front of me. Cock.

Anyone who has cycled on the road would probably have to answer "Once or twice" if they were being truly honest and had a good memory.

I RLJed once a few years ago at an empty junction late at night because my bike wasn't triggering the induction loop that was controlling the lights. In retrospect I should probably have dismounted and used the pedestrian crossing. Other than that I occasionally sit in front of an ASL's stop line if I've reached the ASL only to discover that it's full of car.

One of the scarier RLJ moments I've experienced occurred when I stopped at lights as they turned red only for the car [b]behind the card behind me[/b] to pull out and scream past the car behind me and me, while taking a sharp left around the junction.

I RLJed once a few years ago at an empty junction late at night because my bike wasn't triggering the induction loop that was controlling the lights. In retrospect I should probably have dismounted and used the pedestrian crossing.

If that's a joke it's wonderfully subtle.

That Press Officer ought to be sacked for coming to entirely the wrong conclusion to a set of figures and releasing an inaccurate and irresponsible press release.

One of the things I like most about the internet is when idiots like her, James Martin, Addison Lee boss etc come out with ignorant and inflammatory guff, Carlton Reid, BC, CTC, Sustrans etc come at them publicly with sensible facts and figures and show them up for the manipulative ignoramuses they are.

Although it feels a bit like open season on cyclists sometimes, it does feel like we're beginning to make some headway against the ignorance.

And when I drive in London Village, when I brake to stop at an amber I check my mirrors first, to make sure the driver behind me isn't trying to get through the lights...

Shouldn't the law allow us (cyclists) to turn left, or go straight ahead where there is no left turn, against red lights where it's safe to do so? I reckon so...

Then do a week of obeying every rule of the road to the letter. Never jumping lights or riding on the pavement, indicating every move, generally being a model citizen.

Why is this dangerous?

I admit that being slightly out in front at junctions is safer than sitting in the queue, but I don't know how riding on pavements is safe, unless you are being knocked off or something.

On the BBC News this morning - already the presenters have made the claim that 57% of cyclists jump red lights 🙄

Here we go with the badly made 'poll' and spurious claims based on selective use of dodgy statistics...

Yep, haven't got time to watchit, as I need to get riding to work and, of course, cause as much havoc as possible.
Ever been made to feel like you're the enemy?

Yup - i'm just about to set off on my daily commute - the one where i sit at every light in the middle of the lane just like a vehicle - and get daily abuse/poor driving/dangerous overtakes etc - all because i'm apparently 'the enemy'...

IAM dude on the Beeb has presented himself well this morning.
The roads are for everyone.

I noticed they reworded the story when it actually came out - "57% of cyclists admit to going through a red light [i]at least once"[/i]. I like to think my email to them helped.

[i]IAM dude[/i]
I bet that's the first time he's ever been called a "dude"! 🙂

IAM dude on the Beeb has presented himself well this morning.
The roads are for everyone.

Yeah, I was surprised, normally they have people that are on opposite sides of an argument and at least one that’s quite rabid (Carole Malone versus the anorexia suffer springs to mind…), but the IAM dude came across as being very reasonable, saying that the issue was that cyclist were breaking the law because they felt unsafe, so we had to make sure that ACL boxes were properly enforced and that there’s more respect from everyone. He was all a bit Bill & Ted, “Be excellent to one another”.

Duuuuuude!

And it's made the Daily Wail - the comments at the bottom really are depressing. 🙁

http://www.****/news/article-2144472/More-half-cyclists-jumped-red-lights-ahead-road-users.html

I will not read the Mail's report!
Its weird though - I realised this morning that I go through a red light every day I ride, without even realising. It's a bus lane that goes past the shopping precinct. When I get there, there are no buses around and the light is always red. So I ride though it. I think that makes me a regular red light jumper 🙁

I actually quite enjoy reading the rubbish on the Daily Hates comment section. Really does make me feel good about myself!

Anyway, this report is tosh.

Headline should read: "Humans willing to break rules for their own advantage when they know there is almost no chance of punishment"

I realised this morning that I go through a red light every day I ride, without even realising. It's a bus lane that goes past the shopping precinct. When I get there, there are no buses around and the light is always red. So I ride though it. I think that makes me a regular red light jumper

I think you're comitting a mopery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mopery

Funnily enough IAM seem less keen to publicise the 32% of drivers that also admitted the offence.

And it's made the Daily Wail

I will not read the Mail's report!

Weirdly, the Daily Fail has reported the IAM stuff in a very uninflammatory way. Strange.

Of course, the reader comments are true to form though, with barely one brain cell or fact used amongst them.

Of course, the reader comments are true to form though, with barely one brain cell or fact used amongst them.

I think we should organise a mass trolling effort!

I have seen a senior person from the local college, he's also a vegetarian, consistently go the wrong way, along one-way streets on his bike.

😀

[i]I think you're comitting a mopery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mopery [/i]

Oh god. I'm going to jail to be raped in the showers aren't I..

Has anyone got a Mail Online login I could borrow please?

I was a good boy today. I stopped at lights (they were red and it was very busy on the roads)

"wonders what it's going to be like on the way home"

Really interesting article [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18072259 ]here[/url] about traffic lights on the BBC:

corrupted by the system of control which makes us almost have a greater respect for a traffic light than for a human life.

The intolerable conflicts that arise, arise purely and simply from this rule of priority.

bikebouy - Member
I was a good boy today. I stopped at lights (they were red and it was very busy on the roads)

Me too. No close encounters with:

[img] [/img]

From the article:

Driving recently, I was about 20 yards away when lights changed to amber and I thought, shall I put my foot down and try to beat the amber.

I knew it would be a long wait at this set of lights.

Nice to see the Beeb promoting the same "beat the amber" myth that we talked about earlier. 🙄

Nice to see the Beeb promoting the same "beat the amber" myth that we talked about earlier.

That minor annoyance aside, what do you think of the overall sentiment?

I did originally begin to contribute to this thread the other day as it's a subject I find interesting, but I decided I couldn't do with the aggro of the STW righteous crew, so I didn't hit the post button. Instead I pasted the text [url= http://sprungseven.com/2012/05/14/its-because-of-bad-design-that-cyclists-run-red-lights/ ]here[/url] where nobody will read it. You can have a look if you're interested.