With regards to Brant's reply, anyone who has posted here on a regular basis will surely be familiar with his style (I like his refreshing honesty). I suspect at 9pm he's thinking a little more about his family and relaxing than spending all night on a forum pointing out all the changes and evolutions of his designs that can be easily seen with a little reading and research.
So if you're chilling & relaxing with your family why even bother looking on the internets!?
I haven't ridden the Pig (and won't unless I win the lottery) but it'd be a helluva bike if better than the 456SS I like a lot. Probably wrong but mine is built with Fox 36 Talas and rides well (the Talas is busted so non-adjustable).
Whichever one you buy you MIGHT end up wondering if the other one would've been better. Toss a coin.
simonlovell999 £300 max? Can you not stretch alittle more and look at the Dialled Alpine or even:
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOCAR456/on-one-carbon-456-frame
I'm 6ft and ride a 16" 456- spot on for sizing IMO.
If the OP wants 160mm fork*, then have a look at the Dialled Alpine.....unfortunately the kwaka green may be sold out tho. The Red is awesome sauces as well though.
Saying that if top whack is £300 get one second hand? I recently sold a frame for £220 and that seems to be about the going rate.
*notice wants not needs 
As for the differences, slacker head angle and steeper seat angle means the blue pig is significantly better both up and down steep stuff than the 456 ime. If flatter, twistier, singletrack is your thing then a normal inbred may be better suited.
That's the useful bit of advice in this thread = ;87)
Of course the Summer Season blurs the lines a bit between the two geom wise.
Oh, and there are other frames out there... ...you can probably guess what I'd suggest getting a demo ride on...
Hora, you're as bad as those two off the telly.
I want a new house / bike and this is my budget.
We'll have a look at this one, its 50% more than you can afford but ticks all the boxes.
Podge. Buy secondhand. I always do when I can. You get twice as much for half the money.. if more people did this bike companies would see the dip in sales and start lowering their ridiculous prices.
I just recently got a 456 out the classifieds for £70. I got another with a pair of Fox Talas forks for £100 a while back.
If you're just trying one out for a few weeks and transferring all the bits off another bike it's a cheap way to get an extended test...
Same top tube length
Slacker head tube angle on Blue Pig
Seriously better thought-out finishing detail on the frame on the Blue Pig (mud clearance, drop-outs, tidier position for rear brake caliper)
I'm an owner of OnOne and Ragley frames. I'd go Ragley if I were you.
I love your short memory Hora, I already have a second hand bike, you've seen me on it and we've talked about it
OP- test ride them first. People on rides etc as you might go against the grain on sizing as well.
I bought a Ti456 once in 18"- expensive mistake.
Taxi for Brant
Keep up the good work Brant. I actually prefer your no bullsh*t approach
Jamesy - Member
It's not really sarkey. It's more a dissapointment
that the work that designers put into things
aren't really picked up by people sometimes.where's the violins...
he was asking a question your response was uncalled for. I for one have looked at your frames and considered buying one , but for me that just wouldn't happen now after reading this, you've come across as a total arse
see if you can mither Mike Sinyard at 9 o'clock with inane questions and get a reply.
if more people did this bike companies would see the dip in sales and start lowering their ridiculous prices.
Don't people sell secondhand because they have/are buying someting new then?
did the op mither the designer ? no I think u may find . I for one was interested In knowing the difference between the two and the op asked the forum, isn't that what stw is all about? or have I got the wrong forum ?
Don't see the point in brants reply. Usually he is helpful if a little aloof. Not doing a good pr job. Odd
an alternative solution might be a ns surge. bit more play oriented than these two, but meant to be very good?
Don't people sell secondhand because they have/are buying someting new then?
Wish I could. Im the poor sod scavenging around the jumblesale on the next section ------->
Hora, you're as bad as those two off the telly.
Rupert and Phyllis are looking for a new place in countryside with a crash-pad in the city. They only have a budget of £700,000 to play with so it'll be pretty tight. 
Manchester couple Burt and Irene hora are looking for a two up-two down in the city with an allotment in Wythenshawe. They only have a budget of £70,000 to play with. We'd suggest hora studied harder at school and this program wouldn't be shown. 
Don't see the point in brants reply. Usually he is helpful if a little aloof.
Norvern humour innit.
Norvern humour innit.
Unless you are buying something then its warm and nice? 
He's just a grumpy, sarky, nothern bloke and those three things are present in varying proportions in most of his posts.
I'd say that his first one in this thread had a high proportion of grumpy but frankly who never gets grumpy every now and again? Maybe not ideal customer service but equally, you always get straight-talking from Brant and not bland marketing-BS which TBH I prefer.
No Clubber, I think some posters touched on the truth.
What, that you're a wannabe estate agent, Hora?
Yeah thats right. But lets not divert attention from the topic.
Grumpy and sarkiness are different to rudeness. Sam, Dialled Mike, and most retailers and wholesalers respond on here to questions in a decent way, and those that don't get short shrift pdq.
Well just goes to show what interpretations will do. I've re-read his replies and I don't read them as rude plus I'm a poncy Southerner so I should be prone to offence
I have a 456 with 130mm forks, seems ok. Largest size, with 70mm stem and I am 6'1". Tried to make it a longer/ faster riding bike opposed to my full sus.
Personally I am sure my Orange 5 is faster on the road, off the road and also a better climber, but obviously ££, so I havent really succeed in making the HT the bike I need it to be. It does seem to handle reasonably well though and for the price you can build a reasonable spec up for (Deore, SH forks etc...) you really cant go wrong.
The Ragley is a newer design and seems to correct a few issues such as chainsuck destroying the chain stay, but I have no idea where you can go and see one of these frames. Check out their websites.
Depends what you are used to but you may feel the head angle is too slack and will need to spend a bit of time re-calibrating your riding.
Also as above you are getting into the realms of considering quite a few other frames once in this price range.
Also, why go from 110mm to 160mm travel. There are a huge amount of forks with 140mm travel which are more than upto tough riding especially on a HT.
Finally and disappointingly, whichever you get (out of all listed above) it really wont improve or change your riding too much over the other.
At the moment I have a mongoose otero fs frame which is upgraded heavily and its ok (rear suspension is shite). So a ragley with pikes would be prob ideal or go 2nd hand lyriks on a ragley?
pikes would be good - it's a long travel xc bike really
Didn't realise this was still going.
I've had both a 456 and now a mmmBop (same geo as the blue pig),I'd honestly say there isn't much difference riding either downhill (the mmmBop is a tad more confidence inspiring on very steep stuff) but its everywhere else that I find the mmBop better. I suspect this is as a result of the seat angle change.
Anybody want to test ride one in Swansea is welcome to contact me to try mine anway.
As for the furor regarding Brants reply, to BillyBob-are you implying that he isn't allowed to relax and chill reading a forum?
I think pritcsa has hit the nail on the head, If Brant were to make direct comparisons it would'nt really be fair to On-One who I'm sure he owes some of his success to, and I like to think he is still friendly with them at least
I built up a Blue Pig a few weeks ago, riding it mostly in the Peak - really like it, it's kind of interesting because of its geometry, low front end, steep seat tube etc. I've ridden a 456 briefly as well. My take on the Pig with a Pike is that it's quite a heavy thing, goes up and downhill like an unstoppable steamroller, with just enough flex out back to sort of go over and around things effectively, but sort of loiters along flatter terrain like a sulky, whining teenager with his hands in his pockets.
If your local riding goes mostly up and down in a techy sort of way, I'd go for a Pig, but don't expect it to be light and sprinty. If you have more flattish singletracky stuff, then the 456 is going to be more of an all-rounder, I think. Then again, if you're going to stick a 160mm fork on whatever it is, you're probably not going to be building a light, agile, singletrack-friendly rapier of a bike whatever frame you use, are you?
Anyhow, that's my very average rider's take on it 
I want to use it all day, either on road or off road. singletracking, climbing, downhilling. So the 456 or the blue pig and 160mm is prob too much for all day riding. so prob pikes, then i can wind them down to 100 and upto 140 plus lock out
Well, based on my experience anyway, the Ragley'll climb and descend really well, be 'so, so' on flattish singletrack - the head angle's pretty slack - and pretty dispiriting on the road. Depends what matters most to you, how much road / flat stuff there is etc.
Where do you mostly ride?
This topic has been closed to new replies.
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