[url= http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/04/15/oneup-goes-bigger-with-new-44-tooth-xx1-replacement-cog/ ]http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/04/15/oneup-goes-bigger-with-new-44-tooth-xx1-replacement-cog/[/url]
Is that too big to fit a 26" wheel?
Nice to be able to replace the alloy sprocket from one of those eye wateringly expensive cassettes so I'm surprised if they aren't offering a 42. Unless such big alloy cogs don't in reality wear any faster than the rest of the cassette.
Seems a good idea.
I run 1x10 and find I pedal out on the flats, but still need my 32x36 for the very steep bits. So Id go for a larger front ring and some sort of expander like this to still do the steep bits but have more speed for the flats.
Just put a bloody motor on your bike. That'll solve it, especially when you get some 'real climbing'
Good idea, means you can run a larger front ring and still have climbing ability.
I'm quite a big fan of 1x drivetrains, especially for racing, and I use them on several bikes, but I think there's a point where you have to just admit that a double might be a better choice, and I think this might be getting very close to that point!
Is that ourselves we can see in the distance?
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Expanders are a good thing - they mean you can alter your gearing to suit your riding style, area and ability. What's not to like ?
Also means you don't have redundant gears that you would get with a 2x or 3x set up, plus you can ditch the front mech.
Win, win win 🙂
I think there's a point where you have to just admit that a double might be a better choice, and I think this might be getting very close to that point!
THIS
some of this looks like a desperate attempt to stick to 1 x whatever whilst openly admitting it does not actually provide the required range
FWIW i ride 1 x [ 36 at th e back] locally but I would not attempt to ride the lakes with it as it an inadequate range for me weak legs
YMMV
Not a bad idea for many riders at all.
It's more a replacement for the 42 on an XX1/X01 cassette that happens to be slightly bigger. You're talking less than 5% lower than the current largest sprocket. It's not like a 'normal' expander which are up to 17% extra.
Personally I can't see that it'll open XX1 to many more people, not in the same way as 10 speed set ups.
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I think it's a good idea, the bigger the range of sequential gears without multiple chain rings the better. Shimano's electronic shifting where the front/rear ratio is handled by computer would also do it for me but is even further out of my price bracket.
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thing is, how much chain would you need to get around that thing, and then what size cage on the mech to take up the slack when you want the smallest sprocket ??? I wouldn't put it on my bike, I'd rather put some effort into pedaling up hill.
I quite like the idea that someone mentioned in another thread of running 1x10 with a normal cassette and a NW ring, and having a granny ring fitted that you can manually drop the chain onto if you need an extra low gear. Cheaper and easier than a large cassette.
@keva, while I'm not sold on the idea of continuing to go bigger and bigger at the back, that argument doesn't hold up on *this* product, if you read the article you'll see the answers to both your questions are 'the same amount of chain as you were running before' and 'the same mech as you were running before'
I quite like the idea that someone mentioned in another thread of running 1x10 with a normal cassette and a NW ring, and having a granny ring fitted that you can manually drop the chain onto if you need an extra low gear. Cheaper and easier than a large cassette.
I've got exactly that on a bike I use for bikepacking, 1x10 for normal, and then a ghost granny for hauling it laden up something long and steep (like Haytor)
If your chain and mech can handle the full range on your double or triple then it's no different. If it can't and you must avoid the big/big combination then I suggest you never let an incompetent **** have a go on your bike. Bitter experience from many years ago 🙂
thing is, how much chain would you need to get around that thing, and then what size cage on the mech to take up the slack when you want the smallest sprocket ??? I wouldn't put it on my bike, I'd rather put some effort into pedaling up hill.
As amedias says, this isn't a conventional expander. It's a replacement sprocket for XX1 or X01 cassettes. So you need an X01, XX1, GX or X1 mech, which are only available in one length. Non issue.
Why on earth would you set up a system where you have to manually move the chain from chain ring to chain ring? A front mech will do that for you.
Honestly, front mechs are ok, they don't bite and are not evil. If you need the range then use one even if your hipster friends will laugh at you.
Why on earth would you set up a system where you have to manually move the chain from chain ring to chain ring? A front mech will do that for you.Honestly, front mechs are ok, they don't bite and are not evil. If you need the range then use one even if your hipster friends will laugh at you.
Because some full-suss bikes have no room for a front mech, and if you're using a NW ring you can't use a front mech anyway. The 'ghost' granny is only there to be used as a last resort, so maybe only once or twice a ride.
I have no problem with a front mech as such, but my frame can't run one, so this would be a solution if I don't fit an extender cog on the back. Currently though I'm managing fine with 1x10 (36 front, 11-36 back)
[i]Why on earth would you set up a system where you have to manually move the chain from chain ring to chain ring? A front mech will do that for you.
Honestly, front mechs are ok, they don't bite and are not evil. If you need the range then use one even if your hipster friends will laugh at you.
[/i]
Because you can't use N/W chainrings, and therefore at far greater risk of losing the chain.
Why on earth would you set up a system where you have to manually move the chain from chain ring to chain ring? A front mech will do that for you.
because I have used it precisely twice (ever), and I don't want the added weight and complexity of a shifter and mech for the other 99.999% of the time. It really is a proper emergency/bail out option for when I'm otherwise faced with a 40min+ walk with a 45lb+ bike
Having the granny there causes next to no additional weight, no shifter or mech or cable required, I've even thought about taking it off again but since the impact of leaving it there is almost zero it's stayed, and I've been glad of it (twice)
Why are people getting so up tight about this product? It's only a tiny bit bigger, but you'd think it was something like a 54T by the comments.
For me a single ring is far better because a double is noisy and the chain drops off the chainring. All the arguing about range of doubles doesn't get away from that, so I cannot see why you wouldn't want the choice of a larger range, or a narrow ratio depending on your requirements.
amedias. For similar reasons to you I ran a middle and a granny ring for about a year with a front mech fitted but no shifter. I set front mech set in the middle position by using a section of brake inner from the last frame cable guide stop to the pinch bolt and to change gear all I had to do was pull the front mech outwards a little releasing the cable from the slot and the lower limit screw would hold the mech in the granny gear position. The mech was there for chain retention more than anything. (this was pre-Narrow/wide days)
had exactly that setup* for a while too mtbel (before NW rings) in my student days when I bust a shifter and was too skint to replace it 🙂
* well almost, mine had a really cool ziptie loop on the cable so I could pull it out of the frame stop while riding as well, bodgetastic rudimentary shifter, worked fine too, for about 3 goes until the ziptie snapped, but zipties were cheaper than shifters!
I set front mech set in the middle position by using a section of brake inner from the last frame cable guide stop to the pinch bolt and to change gear all I had to do was pull the front mech outwards a little releasing the cable from the slot and the lower limit screw would hold the mech in the granny gear position.
Nice idea, wondered if that would work.
a broken shifter may well have been my inspiration too. 😳
Pssst wanna buy some magic beans?
@brakes - genuine laugh out loud moment there, cheers!
I was shocked to find my bike came with a 36t after previously only ever having a 28t or 32t on the back. I moved from 26" triple to a 29" double setup and found that this was the norm.
I know riding up hills is unfashionable however there has to come a point where maintaing sufficient forward momentum becomes impossible as the cadence required to do so is stupidly high.
It isn't about hill climbing gears, it's about range. What is the biggest and smallest gear you need, does the set up cover that once you've chosen a chainring? If 11-34 has you covered then you don't need one of these.
I was shocked to find my bike came with a 36t after previously only ever having a 28t or 32t on the back. I moved from 26" triple to a 29" double setup and found that this was the norm.
10 speed cassettes introduced 36s as the norm, just as 9 speed introduced 34s. If you want to run 26/36/48 with an 11-28 cassette like off of the 90s then do, no one's stopping you!
Not about climbing? Where else would you use a 44t gear?
44 isn't that big...in the olden days we used to run 48s...on 26" wheels...it'll be fine.
[i]I quite like the idea that someone mentioned in another thread of running 1x10 with a normal cassette and a NW ring, and having a granny ring fitted that you can manually drop the chain onto if you need an extra low gear. Cheaper and easier than a large cassette.[/i]
Raced EWS last year with a guy using this method for the climbs to the start of the stages, you needed a big range as some of the downhills were pretty quick.
Nice simple idea.
Whats needed is some method of fixing the cassette to the bottom bracket and the crank to the rear hub. that would really solve the problem of image and lack of climbing prowess; )
I run a 'cheater' granny on my 1*10 hard tail too. It's specifically there for big days when my legs have blown and I just need to sit and winch.
I originally did this for the same reasons on my single speed where I used a rohloff tensioner to take up the slack, and I've carried it though. In two years of single speeding I used it twice but was extremely glad it was there when I needed it.
I've been running my current hardtail since September, and used it once.
For those saying 'why not just fit a front mech', it's not about having a gear that's easily accessible at all times, it about having the gear equivalent of a survival blanket for those times when nothing but the easiest gear will do because you're exhausted, wet, cold and have the bonk but just need to keep going.
44 isn't that big...in the olden days we used to run 48s...on 26" wheels...it'll be fine.
Not on the back, unless I'm missing some kerazy invention!
This thread reminds me of the early threads about uppydowny posts when the first came out.
Some clearly love the new fangled invention, some hate it, some slag it off and say you don't need it and some just don't have a clue.
Probably would have had the same threads about forks and discs if there had been a forum back then.
it's not really though is it?
it's equivalent to someone bringing out a 15" dropper post.
Great shot of the XX1 cassette shows why is so expensive look at the CNC work going into that!
it's equivalent to someone bringing out a 15" dropper post.
People obviously feel they need the range because they need a double or triple setup and cannot manage with a single ring. So if a single ring setup comes out with the same range, then it's a win.
To use your analogy, Like a dropper post which comes out with as much drop as you manage with a quick release. So not really like a 15" dropper at all.
brakes - some people like an easy ride up hill.
Give them all the choice they want. Some will soon learn what works for them and what doesn't.
I'm at BPW today with a hardtail on a double chainset.....admittedly it's only the morning and I've only been using the blues so far but.....no dropped chain.
I don't use a clutch mech or N/W rings or a retention device...I know I'm not fast (although I'm keeping up with the pyjama wearing DHers today) but what has my LBS done that is so magical that the front mech works as intended and the chain doesn't come off?!....I really don't get people's problems with a 2x setup.
I was shocked to find my bike came with a 36t after previously only ever having a 28t or 32t on the back. I moved from 26" triple to a 29" double setup and found that this was the norm.I know riding up hills is unfashionable however there has to come a point where maintaing[sic] sufficient forward momentum becomes impossible as the cadence required to do so is stupidly high.
Is 22-32 on 26" wheels not a smaller gear than 28-36 on 29"?
To use your analogy, Like a dropper post which comes out with as much drop as you manage with a quick release. So not really like a 15" dropper at all.
it's like a dropper post with the words "MUG" written on the side 😀
Its one of those IMHO its sometimes people so intent on having a 1 x set up that they overlook the fact its not the best fit and just keep engineering "solutions" to give it the range of 2 x and not quite managing it [or requiring new bits to achieve it like cages or freewheeels and the like]
The dropper post anaology would be to buy a dropper and then having to keep buying/engineering things to make the drop bigger and bigger. After doing this the drop is still not as good as just undoing your QR and dropping the post anyway but it will almost work as well as that.
Confused by the snake oil/magic beans references. Its a bigger gear. That's engineering and scientific fact. About as far from snake oil as you can get.
As others have mentioned it not just about easier climbing. You get a bigger range so could fit a bigger front, keep the climbing gear the same and have a faster top gear.
The dropper post anaology would be to buy a dropper and then having to keep buying/engineering things to make the drop bigger and bigger. After doing this the drop is still not as good as just undoing your QR and dropping the post anyway but it will almost work as well as that
Yeah, like a product which will give you a bit more drop of your post.
And yet people will be saying "but I can still drop it an inch further with my qr". What's the point. And thus completely missing the point that they have to stop and get off to change it.
Perhaps it is a good analogy after all!
That's engineering and scientific fact.
a solution without a problem
Dont get me wrong I think 1x works well for hilly areas but I would not want it in a mountainous area
YMMV
And of course we all know the next one will be 46t 😉
so we can have this discussion again later, woo hoo!
so there is nobody that wants a higher top gear or a lower bottom gear. You learn something new every day.a solution without a problem
I was out on my XC HT tail last night, my Whyte's awaiting an insurance evaluation :-(, which I run 3 x 9 with 22/32/42 up front and a 11-34 cassette. I found that I only used middle ring and never needed granny. Comparing to my Whyte which is 1 x 11 running a 32T chain ring and a 10 - 42 cassette the main difference is I spin out in top the lower range is good for the hills around Winchester.
Overall I'm happy with my 11 speed setup but when I go to mid-Wales in June I might change my mind.
I have no problem with 1x and can see how it works for some people it's just I lol at the attempts of many to justify it for everything. I also lol at the idea of spending a huge amount of cash to get less range. It's an option but is not a huge stride forward and is not the second coming.
As for bikes not being able to run a front mech, surely that's as a result of the fashion for 1x? There's plenty of bikes that can and I'm yet to read a review that states any bike is significantly better then another because it's designed to not have a fm.
I liked the response to my earlier post that mentioned the weight saving benefit of dropping the fm, shifter and cable on a 45lbs+ bike.
As with all bike stuff, as long as you can afford it then wanting it is enough of a justification. You don't need to make up loads of negligible arguments to supplement your choice.
I liked the response to my earlier post that mentioned the weight saving benefit of dropping the fm, shifter and cable on a 45lbs+ bike
I think you misunderstood!
The bike weighs about 23lbs, but when I use it for bikepacking and camping trips it can have 20+lbs of gear attached to it, and its for those trips that the phantom granny is left on as a rarely used bail out option, for the other 99.999% of the time I'm enjoying the benefit of a 1x with a NW ring.
I'm not going to bolt a shifter, mech and cable on, and remove the NW ring every time I go off on a trip where I might once in a blue moon need to use the granny, now THAT would be silly, for me a manual shift 2-3 times a year is worth it for the rest of the time.
So we are going backwards in tech. As they say there is little new in bicycle design
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does it come in anodized purple?
Oooh, how on trend with flats and a short cage mech as well 🙂
The other issue is you will need wider bars to fit your dropper lever, your front mech, your fork lockout and rear suspension lockout..............not to mention brakes. Where will it end ?
If I had the money I think I'd go with a DI2 double setup and just use 1 shifter in syncro shift mode, seems a ****ing brilliant idea.
A quick fag packet calc suggests than a 10-44 cassette actually comes pretty close to matching the overall range that my old 2x9 managed (11-32 + 36/22, i.e. You can either have the same bottom or top ratio depending on weather you prefer a 30t or a 32t chairing, and give away about two tooths worth of extra gear at the other end... So 10-46 might just do it.
Like I say same overall range, obviously not all the same possible ratio combinations, but as people often like to point out due to "duplication of ratios" there's probably only about 12 to 14 useful gears in amongst the supposed 20 a 2x10 drive offers, I don't reckon 11 sequential gears is such an awful compromise set against that.
for my own part In have learned to love a lower range shimano 1x10; MTFU for hills and accept "spinning out" on the odd boring flat bit...
Different strokes for different folks innit...
It's not like multiple ring setups will vanish, flogging extra parts to the luddites is still profitable... 😉
I don't reckon 11 sequential gears is such an awful compromise set against that.
But even the adherents have to admit it is a compromise and that is for gearing as yet not available
I would rather compromise on a 2x set up if I needed a 44 rear.
Its personal choice though but the while point of gears is to increase the range of gears. Self limiting them to almost enough [ with some faffing and in 1 x 10 additional components and much expense] is not my opinion of an advancement.
YMMV
its not a new thing.. ARI have had them out for a while.. I replaced the 42T on my xx1 cassette when it cracked..
http://www.aribike.it/pignone%20sram%20XX1%20html/ari%20cog%20for%20sram%20xx1%20cassette%20eng.htm
[quote=Junkyard]even the adherents have to admit it is a compromise and that is for gearing as yet not available
Everything is a compromise, you just have to pick your one.
[quote=Junkyard]Its personal choice though but the while point of gears is to increase the range of gears.
The point of gears is to give you the option of more than one gear.
[quote=Junkyard]Self limiting them to almost enough [ with some faffing and in 1 x 10 additional components and much expense] is not my opinion of an advancement.
It is just a different compromise. Some people don't much like the extra noise and complexity and weight of a front shifter and multiple chainrings. They also feel that they can ride most of what they want with a more limited set of gears.
[i]
"I applaud this test, but I still feel that variable gears are only for people over 45. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailleur? We are getting soft. Come on fellows. Let's say that the test was a fine demonstration - for our grandparents! As for me, give me a fixed gear!"[/i]
The other issue is you will need wider bars to fit your dropper lever, your front mech, your fork lockout and rear suspension lockout..............not to mention brakes. Where will it end ?
You're forgetting that those that think anyone who doesn't run 1x is an idiot and front mechs are the work of the devil will already have 1.5m bars with plenty of room. I would suggest front and rear lockouts would be scoffed at in a similar fashion to a proper range of gears though.
[i]Probably would have had the same threads about forks and discs if there had been a forum back then.[/i]
you have no idea.... 😐
wish i could "spin out" 32×11 ... I'm lucky if i can hold 120rpm
for more than a few seconds 😉
The other issue is you will need wider bars to fit your dropper lever, your front mech, your fork lockout and rear suspension lockout..............not to mention brakes. Where will it end ?
I manage to fit 2 brake levers, 2 gear levers, 2 lockout levers, 2 bar ends and 2 grips on 60cm bars (no dropper, grumble, grumble, new fangled technology).
Can I just check, are bar ends still allowed if you're running 1x?
Can I just check, are bar ends still allowed [s]if you're running 1x?[/s]
No.
Not even gold anodised ones?
[i]Especially [/i]gold anodised ones!
And of course we all know the next one will be 46tso we can have this discussion again later, woo hoo!
[url= http://int.oneupcomponents.com/collections/all-products/products/45t-sprocket-18t ]OK, so I was wrong, the next one is a 45T[/url], can't be long now though 😉