Round here it doesn't need to be snowing or be a 4×4 for any arrogant knob end in any type of vehicle to do that. They seem to think they own the road and you should automatically move over for them. I've taken to driving at them letting their reflexes take their vehicle where good manners and consideration should have in the first place. Wouldn't try it in snow though.

Actually in 4×4 off-roaders with decent M&S tyres, yup, I'd venture to say that in my experience it does. Certainly better than my 2wd normal car with normal tyres, better in accel, cornering and decel. Of course on pure ice, no it's as much of a nightmare (though has the lovely tendency to maintain momentum which can have positive and negative effects – keeps it more stable when other cars tend to squirm and spin but also means understeer in bends rarely can be corrected). You just have to know your car, have a car kitted out properly (tyres) and have experience using it PROPERLY. 4x4s have much better snow clearance, don't get stuck in drifts as easily, can pass in tricky situations where cars must stay on more level ground, can pull other cars out of hedges/ditches etc where other cars sit and spin (kinda proves the point about traction). Why do you think they use landcruisers offroad in iceland, rather than Passat estates?

4×4 normal cars – much better than 2wd, the extra cornering and traction for accel is very noticable, but ultimately it's on road tyres so it stops just as badly as my 2wd.

2wd FWD TD estate – plods along, can't be overly adventurous, gets stuck where the 4x4s wouldn't, can't pass in drifts if required, can't brake any better than the others, but at least it's cheap if it gets crumpled.

I wish my works 4×4 weighed 2 ton mine weighs closer to 3 ton. I hate the thing it's gutless uncomfortable to drive, turning circle of an oil tanker but doing my off-road refresher course last year I couldn't fault it went anywhere I pointed it's been great in this weather.
Oh what I don't like is when driving down narrow lanes the cars coming the opposite direction automatically thinking you are going to drive up the verge to let them through even if there is a three foot drop into the ditch.

Not so much 4wd hating from me at the moment – more just a question why do they drive them like 2wd cars and expect those of us with 2wd to get out the way. Not even following basic rules like give way to uphill traffic which should go double for winter conditions.

Anyway, take heart in some parts of the country there is always something bigger round the corner for them to meet.

And some times something even bigger than that.

(its a very big tractor driven by a very big chap – John is a 6'6" and built like a brick shit house.)

There's never a tractor trumps thread about when you want it.

Adam_h my L200 went every where a Landrover went last year on a 4×4 course with the added bounus of not leaking water into the cab 😉

Never mind the fookwits on the roads theres a few fookwits on tinterweb forums!

Agree adam_h totally gutless.

I really like my x-trail it's been ace over the past few weeks and have had the option of 2WD or 4WD. However I'm not too enamoured with the bellend who owns the 4wd Celica down the road as he insists on wheelspinning every morning and evening in the turning circle polishing the snow/ice making it much worse for everyone else….except me.

<i>I learnt some great tips when I did a basic course so I could drive my company 4X4 in a certain companies sites </i>

'Experience' by any chance?

I've driven all theirs including this at DVD this year (Millbrook – according to anyone you ask the best 4×4 proving ground in Europe).

Yes we managed to get it stuck. Computer decided it knew best and shut it down.

4x4s have their place, they are useful on the odd occasion but if anything that just goes to prove how way over-engineered they are for normal everyday road use – nothing justifies buying one instead of average family saloon car.

80 on a motorway. Prat

Although in a crash you really don't want to be in most 4x4s… especially a Navara, so I don't buy the "safety" reasoning. And I drive the things!

I had a Navara for about a year, it broke down… lots. The computer claimed I was getting 34mpg, but it was lying. I know this because I changed it for a Grand Vitara which claims I am getting 32mpg with a much smaller tank and yet I go to the fuel pumps less often.

Pickups are just waaay to flawed for use as a private car, given my work there are times I miss them – usually when I have a "dirty" sewage pump that needs taken to the workshop. It now goes in the boot, which is less than pleasant! But manouverability was pants with very poor turning circles and physical size that is verging on the rediculous. Nah… I can live without that (though it was fun to drive the Navara, but I think the Suzuki has better handling even if it is a lot slower).

For what it's worth – in the snow and ice I do drive quite slowly. Momentum is not your friend in these conditions. Keep it smooth, keep the speed down and everything is fine (within reason – I am supposed to head up to a site half way up the back of Skiddaw today, not sure if I am going to make it up the narrow lane to the place with all the sheet ice around, but will take a look).

Biggest problem I see with 4x4s is people misunderstanding them and thinking that it allows them to drive as normal in any conditions. Which is why you see BMW/Posh Landie/RangeRovers/Landcruisers etc all parked delicately in walls, snowdrifts and ditches at the moment. I was told in all seriousness yesterday that the best way down a lane with a 4×4 in this weather was, and I quote, to "Just Welly It". Oddly I didn't follow said advice and had no problems at all… unlike the X3 that deposited itself in a hedge going the other way.

Right – I am off up the north of the county. Wish me luck!

80 on a motorway. Prat

Why? Its not 'speed' that kills.

Having said that, if your 4×4 regularly gets muddy at least once a week, then I have no problem with you 😉

Yes, but a 4×4 on road tyres (not all terrains) is still going to get whipped by a FWD car on winter tyres, all things being equal. Until you reach the point where ground clearance becomes an issue.

Once you get to the proper kit like Defenders you have the massive advantage of diff locks & the fact that they generally have at least all terrain tyres, whilst most road cars don't even come with an LSD.

My 4x4s don't go off road at all.
Well, this one has done a few forest tracks and muddy point to point car parks,

and the A4 convertible never goes off road, but it's still a 4×4

😉

Me to Oldgit. I too did a whole lot of 4×4 driving in the Army, even did my test in a short wheel base Land Rover in Colchester!

We've been thinking of trading in the 6yr old XC90 for a normal estate, decided now just to get another one, been brilliant this winter.

You cant drive a 4×4 like you would a lower car. I dont want to crush someone in their Corsa and I certainly dont want to hit an immovable object like a tree in a great big car. When you have 3 kids, a dog, old parents and like doing outdoor stuff they make just loads of sense, just dont be a dick about it ok?

..Salvation 😆

ignoring all the discussion above, i'd just like to say i had a good laugh at a bloke in a evo vii this morning. despite your car having 4wd the quickest way to get away from the lights when on a road covered in sheet ice, all that will happen is you'll spin all 4 wheels, as he found out. idiot.

Oh. I understand now. 4x4s are defined as vehicles with locking diffs, 12 foot of suspension articulation, winter tyres, and owned by someone possessed with a "4×4 mentality". Any other vehicle that happens to have drive and braking on all 4 wheels is now recategorised as a poser car. Should a 4×4 be sold to an ordinary person, it instantly enters the poser car category.

And front wheel drive cars are always fitted with road legal slicks.

Got it.

stumpy your telling me simple winter tyres on two front wheel drive cars were fine ontop of snow? Parts of Austria/Alps etc they use tyres with steel or snowchains when there is snow between the tarmac and the wheel?

tron I was clarifying what my understanding of 4×4 is. To me, a 4×4 was designed 4×4 first/with 4×4 in mind. Production cars that have 4motion etc were designed as cars first with 4wd added after as an option.