- This topic has 122 replies, 60 voices, and was last updated 13 years ago by Kamakazie.
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2011 Orange Five SE £4,400 !!!!
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cycleworldukFree MemberPosted 13 years ago
when the pro went upto £2800 i thought we’d sell hardly any…its my best selling orange in only a couple of months…orange themselves were also worried as to how sales would be affected due to the price rise and its had no effect(in fact the opposite has happened hence the 4 week leadtime at the mo)
i sell hardly any five s’s as most guys have done the research and will go upto the pro…weve probably sold 4 se’s since ive been a dealer(4years)not a big part of their market..
i still think they present very good value for money…try building a intense tracer for less than 4400..if you dont like em dont buy one and tell everyone on here once a month.. 😆
my LBS 2p worth
funkynickFull MemberPosted 13 years agoI’m having trouble working on their maths… as if the frame price of £1400 is correct, then I can’t seem to find £3k of extra cost in there…
The 2011 groupset seems to be coming in at about £900 or so on pre-order.
The forks are probably what, £1k at the very most.
So, that leaves about £1100 for some wheels, in this case 819s on Hope (£260), some brakes (Hope X2 Race – £300?).
So, where does about £500 go on the rest of the bits?
Wouldn’t it just be cheaper to buy the bits and build it yourself? I always thought that it was generally cheaper buying a complete bike than doing it yourself…
oscillatewildlyFree MemberPosted 13 years agonot really sure whats been said before on this – but its a fair old price hike, i guess if you could stretch to that sort of money then you shouldnt even be quibbling about the price anyways….
but i genuinely believe that you could build that bike up for a hell of a lot less than than that price tag with pretty much the same spec….ok so maybe have to ditch the xtr new cranks or the hope brakes (which i dont like anwyays) and do a few custom bargain quality bits (elixir cr carbon brakes onone etc) and i reckon you would easily get a nice 5 from the frame up for easily under 3 grand! and mine below if i was to build a custom spec wise it probably wouldnt be much off there se!
frame – 1400
forks – 500ish (grabbing some bargain fox, or even rochshox maxle ones)
wheels xm819s on pro2 – 300ish
xtr chainset – 9 speeds all below – 290ish
xtr rear mech – 100ish
xtr front mech – 50ish
xtr shifters – 120 ish
xtr brakes – 300 ish
xt cassette / chain – 60 ish
xtr pedals – 80ish
hope headset – 50ish
thomson stem – 60ish
easton bars – 80ish
mud x tyres – 40ish
thomson seat post – 60ish
fizik gobi seat – 50ish
skewers – 40ish
hope rotors – 60ishthats 3560 grand!
not sure if ive missed any thing, and mines is with pedals 😆
3500 custom build for a very similar specced as there 4499….only major difference being xtr 2011 compared to the 2010 9 speed stuff ive just included
ianpinderFree MemberPosted 13 years agoSo you should be comparing it to 2010 prices and not 2011 prices.
j_meFree MemberPosted 13 years agoSo, where does about £500 go on the rest of the bits
headset,stem,bars,grips,seatpost,saddle,bottom bracket,pedals,tyres,reflectors
oscillatewildlyFree MemberPosted 13 years agoyeah i agree, just saying that if i had that sort of money id gladly save 1000quid and run the xtr 9 speed stuff…..nothing else is different…..guess they have to as new xtr is dearer, but im just stating i wouldnt spend 4500 on it when i could build up and equally as good machine with the same spec and pocket the 1000quid!
i undertand your point though dont get me wrong, just if i had that sort of cash that would defo be a custom build jobby for me
oscillatewildlyFree MemberPosted 13 years agoian thats a 2009 model 😆
the custom one i did would be pretty much 2011 components (less forks) and the frame would be a 2011 not 2009!
ianpinderFree MemberPosted 13 years agoYup agree with you there, if I’m spending £4400 on an orange 5 I would hand pick the part myself, on the other hand that build makes my custom look cheap, and my frame was only £500 more then the orange 😈
funkynickFull MemberPosted 13 years agoHeadset… about £60 for a Hope?
Seatpost and stem about £100 for the pair..
Bars.. can’t find a price but I’d guess about £100
Tyres.. maybe £100 if they are fancy-pants tyres or £60 for the tyres that are on there..Pedals will be cheapie flats I would imagine, if it has any at all…
Bottom bracket comes with the chainset as it’s HTII
So, that’s £140 for grips and saddle then… oh, and some cables…
That’s all assuming that you can’t get the fork for cheaper than £1k as well… a quick google suggests it’s available for about £700.. so that’s another £300 to spend…
oscillatewildlyFree MemberPosted 13 years agoyeah same here, even if i had 4400 to spend id still custom build it to be honest as i dont like hope brakes, and id gladly take 2010 xtr stuff anyways, as thats a pretty amazing drive train 🙂
ArcticdanFree MemberPosted 13 years agoPeople seem to be missing a couple of obvious points on here:
1. Things get more expensive year-on-year (fact)!
2. Orange take some of the pain away from the buyer, i.e. they source all the parts, screw them together as a bike and send it pretty much ready to ride – surely worth a couple of quid?
3. If your going to ride XTR do you really need a maxle, XTR is for XC Jey work, if you need a maxle then potentially your buying the wrong groupset?
4. Orange are a quality UK outfit, I’ve had the privilege to ride with Steve (one of the co-owners), a top bloke, who’s only interest is make top notch bikes….. not making a mint from us the consumer!
5. As others have pointed out there are a lot of other brands making bikes in this category which are more expensive!It is what it is, either pay or spend several days of your life searching for bits 20p cheaper!
ianpinderFree MemberPosted 13 years agoFully agree with you, apart from xtr being an xc jey groupset, shimano wouldn’t like that.
m970 cranks are pleanty strong enough for all mountain work, so are the shifters, and the rear mech is no weaker. the only bit which wasn’t really powerfull enough were the brakes. However they have rectified this with the new groupset. So yes, I would get the maxle.
ScottCheggFree MemberPosted 13 years agoian – going back in time a bit; I’ve had 819’s on my Orange for about 3 years. They are stright and true. I tried a set of Flows on my Alpine, and they collapsed at Kiroughtree last week. I’ve never collapsed a wheel in 20 years, and these went after 2 weeks. The spokes have pulled out of the bed, and they have gone back under warranty.
But if they are the best rim you can get, I’ll be sticking to Mavic for a bit longer. And I have a triple ring set up on my Alpine, I’m not going double and bash because the fashion police say I should.
nickcFull MemberPosted 13 years agoWe really ought to put the rim debate to bed really. Mavic DT Stans, all these rims will give you decent wheels. Mostly wheel strength comes from the build rather than the choice of rim. OK some rims are a bit heavier than others. Outside of racing it makes no real difference. Doubtless Orange could have specced a different rim but 819 are reliable and a name everyone is familiar with. It’s a top end specced bike with a less than top end price ( in comparison to similar bikes from Trek and Giant)
merc350Free MemberPosted 13 years agoAnd Merc350, the fault is with the Maxle lite axles being tapered inside the Hope hub. Nothing to do with the frame. The Maxle lite axles have now had a re design and are now parallel to eliminate axle failures.
Thanks for clearing that up
EwanFree MemberPosted 13 years agoHmmm, seems a tad over priced – I recall when Orange weren’t a boutique brand, more a good value brand. Seems like they’ve decided to change their market segment whilst doing very little to their designs.
Fundamentally there isn’t much difference between a 5 and a Heckler, but the 5 costs 50% more. If anything, I’d say the Santa Cruz had a bit more bling factor…
That said, i quite fancy a blood…
takisawa2Full MemberPosted 13 years agoI dont think its expensive. Its specced for the sort who want a bike dripping with the best. You could add another £1k & it would still sell. Orange will have paid more attention to the mid range model spec & price. You’ll always get folk who buy on bling not function or need, and they are just offering a product for that sector. To some degree the bottom spec would probably be treated the same way, its a price point they need to offer a product at. They know your typical 5 buyer will want decent kit, but not xtr level.
Be nice to have one though. 🙂BlowerFree MemberPosted 13 years agoRight,but the Heckler is frame only now right? frame cheaper yes,but dont do full build.
EwanFree MemberPosted 13 years agoWell you can buy a build from Jungle if you want. My point was more that Orange used to be good value, but now they’re not.
si-wilsonFree MemberPosted 13 years agoOrange have never been known for good value, but are known for being a top quality and well thought out product. I think the price is fair for the kit involved. If you want to bud your own then so be it, but orange an the dealers need ti make a decent margin on such high value investments. All IMO
backhanderFree MemberPosted 13 years agoI really like orange bikes, I love them.
Si, have you seen the spec on the Lapierre zesty 914?
There is just no way the 5 SE compares at that price point! That is what a £4.5-5K bike should be, not a common frame with generic OEM forks, mid-range wheels (at best) and underpowered brakes.
Sorry man, orange need to do a lot more for their customer IMO.bolFull MemberPosted 13 years agoWhat cycleworlduk says demonstrates that Orange have got their marketing strategy spot on. This is something called “goldilocks pricing” – the expensive one is too excessive, the cheap one too basic, but the middle one is just right. That way they get to sell a whole lot more Pros, and people aren’t as concerned when the price of that goes up, as long as there is a slightly bigger gap between it and the expensive one. It’s basic marketing and it works a treat. Debates like this help sales of the Pro too – I wonder whether the OP works for them 😉
myheadsashedFull MemberPosted 13 years agoI like the way everyones totally the cost up – but nobody is including profit, overheads etc
If they didn’t make money they wouldn’t be around now……..
Also look at the increases on something light a 5 spot £1300 a few years back now a £2000 frame……..it’s all going up that’s life.
myheadsashedFull MemberPosted 13 years agoI have heard this as well from a mate who develops prototypes for orange and another mate came across it in a forum. They have had a problem with the rear maxle causing frame failures on their prototypes…
That’s why they make prototypes……………they don’t use the public as guinea pigs 🙄
Protos cost money to make etc etc
si-wilsonFree MemberPosted 13 years agoIMO the orange is better built frame than the lappierre, though I’m sure others will prefer the lappierre package.
backhanderFree MemberPosted 13 years agoI don’t disagree si. There’s no getting around the fact that lapierre have sold a LOT of bikes in the last few years.
si-wilsonFree MemberPosted 13 years agogetting around the fact that lapierre have sold a LOT of bikes in the last few years.
For sure they are good bikes, just like the previous everyones favourite brand commencal, guess what both brands have in common? Very big backing from large distributors and marketing budgets to suit.
GSuperstarFree MemberPosted 13 years agomyheadsashed – I’m so glad that someone has actually mentioned the whole ‘profit’ bit.
Prototypes, Promotional items, trade stands, advertising… all this costs money, doesnt just come out of thin air.
STW does seem to spawn ignorant people 🙂
backhanderFree MemberPosted 13 years agomarketing budgets to suit.
Quite, and generally lots of ads in the bike mags = very good reviews.
And whats this about profit? The parts listed and priced above aren’t trade prices you know.igmFull MemberPosted 13 years agoIf I had a fiver for every post on here I could have one of those Fives – in a nice colour too.
martinxyzFree MemberPosted 13 years ago::has a chuckle at the “sittin in it rather than on it” talk and pictures my grandma sitting on a Z-Bed we once had::
I wont tell you what happened as it will just open up another can of worms!
SurroundedByZulusFree MemberPosted 13 years agoI’m pretty sure that it doesnt cost Orange £1400 to make a 5 frame and I’m pretty sure that they dont pay retail prices for their components.
taxi25Free MemberPosted 13 years agoEGF
You just proved the point ! You’ve got a great bike for £3336 at well under the component cost. The Se at £4400 seems to be over component cost!!!!! Go figureesselgruntfuttockFree MemberPosted 13 years agoI haven’t actually read all the posts but…there ya go!
grantwayFree MemberPosted 13 years agoLOL £ 1400 is the recommended retail price!
Not the manufacturing price,So yer dont cost £ 1,400 to make
Think you answered your own question thereChrisAFree MemberPosted 13 years agoI would have thought a manufacturer will aim for 40% contribution minimum, they will also be buying at oem not retail.
Thing for me is that even if I spent £4400 on an off the peg bike. I still wouldn’t be satisfied and would feel the need to change bits.
It’s not the price tag that bothers me, for me, it’s just what else I could get for my cash and when the economy is the way it is, I think many people would struggle to justify that price.
However, saying all that, I was looking at road bikes the other day and some of them are serious cash too.
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