Kilo

Don’t see any joke looks like a valid prosecution.

He’s conflating Hitler, the genocidal dictator with a pug.

Hitler

   …a pug.

It’s the juxtaposition you see. Hitler killed a lot of people. As far as I know, this pug did not. Now if he had actually trained this dog to gas jews there might have been an issue but as far as I can see, the dog did not posses the means to gas the jews.

aracer

jimjam wrote:

Edukator

At the same level of technology I’m convinced that the railways and airlines have already shown us the best solution: a human driving or flying but automatic systems to help them.

That’s a terrible idea.

Not least because studies seem to show that the intermediate stages in autonomous cars have significant issues with the human paying less attention when you give them lots of aids.

Exactly. An airline pilot or a train driver is paid specifically to deliver their passengers safely to their destination. Their livelihood and hundreds of lives depend on them paying attention to what they are doing and not say, checking Facebook or texting. Jack or Jill on the other hand, on their way to the gym, coffee shop, work etc are on their own time, in their own space and the only life they are concerned with at any given time is their own. Give them a chance to spend more time on snapchat and they’ll be all over it.

Edukator

Speed limits aren’t based on reaction times, they’re based on the consequences of collisions in different environments. In France at least the limits correspond to:

50kmh urban limit – most

Please….even if it’s based on the consequences (which it’s not) the determining factor as to whether theses consequences are suffered or avoided is a human’s ability to perceive and/or react to a hazard. are you seriously suggesting that the 60mph National speed limit is based on survive-ability of an impact at that speed? For who exactly? How many pedestrians will survive a 60mph collision with a car? How many cyclists? How many horses? How many drivers will survive a 60mph collision with a brick wall or a tractor.

Edukator

At the same level of technology I’m convinced that the railways and airlines have already shown us the best solution: a human driving or flying but automatic systems to help them.

That’s a terrible idea.

Edukator

No way will a manufacturer produce a vehicle that goes faster than our current cras Jimjim.

Of course they will. If all cars are fully autonomous, homogeneous grey boxes you instantly kill the premium/luxury half of the car industry which is worth hundreds of billions a year. No one is going to pay £40,000 to sit passively in an Audi at an autonomously driven, GPS limited 60mph when a £20,000 Skoda will do the same.  When people are removed from the equation there’s no logical reason to adhere to speedlimits based on human reaction times.

The only reason they produce cars that will go far too fast now is that the ethical dilemmas are with the drivers not the manufacturers. Here is the nature of the dilemma. Imagine ………….

Nope. People have always been willing to pay more to travel faster or in more luxury than the next guy. The reason we can buy a 1000bhp car (if money wasn’t a barrier) is nothing to do with ethics, in many ways it’s completely unethical, it’s because there’s a market there. The ethical concerns / trolley tests have been discussed here in multiple threads going back years. It’s a red herring. The reality will be that AV’s will kill and when they do it’ll because they interpreted their data one way, not another and acted in what they percieved to be the best way. It’ll be a novel headline, which slowly becomes reality. There are much bigger and potentially more insidious implications of Ai systems makig decisions which no one is discussing because they’re not as obvious, or as superficially dramatic.

Edukator

My main worry with self-driving vehicles is not with whatever new perfectly functionning models are put on the roads, it’s what happens when stuff goes wrong.

Limp mode.

 Will the car stop every time there’s a bit of mud on the lens or the radar signal is jammed. Will it just slow down or stop in the middle of the lane or will it continue.

Self cleaning lenses aside, perhaps in the event of a sensor failure the car might prompt the useless meatbag in the driver’s seat to put down his or her phone and drive the car?

I can see a future for autonomous traffic systems but I think that speed limits will have to be dropped to make it work.

I know you live in eternal hope of lowered speedlimits Edukator but AV’s will mean speed limits are increased massively – current speed limits are based around general human reaction times and abilities. Once this tech becomes common place it’ll only be old dumb, human drivers who have to adhere to current limits. Everyone else will be able to go as fast as their tax band allows.

martinhutch

What about mathematics? Can a machine be better at calculations than a human? What about chess? Can a machine be better than the best human at chess? What about Go?

If you can turn my High Street into a board where grannies can only go forwards, not backwards, and schoolkids move three steps forward and one to the side, then you’re onto a winner. Chess is a game with very simple rules and multiple possibilities all deriving from those simple rules.

That wasn’t really my point. In really simple terms driving is about judging speed and distance. Every conceivable variable that a human is considering will be judged by a computer that isn’t guessing, or if it is, it’s guessing based on better information that the average driver has, and they won’t get distracted, tired or angry.

Autonomous cars will be anticipating every possible scenario and variable and using information a human doesn’t have access to – a really simple example, people don’t have night vision or 360 degree vision.

Martinhutch

My view is that there is no way an autonomous vehicle can interpret the road and its surroundings as well as a good, experienced, driver.

What about mathematics? Can a machine be better at calculations than a human? What about chess? Can a machine be better than the best human at chess? What about Go?

There are superhuman AI’s which are better than humans in many ways. Driving will just be the next thing on the list machines will be better at.

Trimix

Butcher, that right.  But software wont be the answer when used in the real world.

In the real world software will fail.

Better training of drivers would be a good idea.  Or we just accept that driving can be dangerous.  Bit like riding a mountain bike, you can kill yourself.

In the real world people fail all the time. Like it or not, this is happening.

ndthornton

As a software engineer – I think its a bonkers idea for so many reasons.

Top reason – machine vision just isn’t sophisticated enough. I don’t mean the cameras…no processer and software algorithm will ever get anywhere close to beating the human brain in its ability to make sense of the world around it.

A number of massive tech corporations (not least of which Google) disagree with you. As above, this is going to happen. It won’t happen for every household, everywhere in the world at once, but it is happening.

Second Reason…this is primarily because machine vision doesn’t work – The framework that the car exists in (the roads) needs to be vastly simplified and standardised before you even try this…

They are already trying it. There are fully autonomous cars on our roads and more and more US states and countries are opening up their legislation in order to facilitate the testing and ultimately the switch to autonomous cars. The ipad generation aren’t interested in driving, they’d rather play with their phone, which is what they do now, while driving.

Perhaps now they’ll honour warranties when their £90 jackets delaminate after minimal use. Thieving cretinous shitlords.

Holly Christ!

You picked the wrong photo to post.. put the one showing it sitting on those mahooosive 22” rims,.

No I definitely picked the right photo. The seller is offering a choice of wheels and tyres and tbh I don’t know what he’s thinking with the other ones.

Kryton57

Playing a game with myself on the motorway this morning which I though I’d extend to STW.  So what mid life crisis car/Dads Taxi with the suggested brief:

a) Its Sporty, grrrr

b) Its thought to be attractive to the object of your sexual preference at the School/Sports kids drop off

c) Is practical for Dads hobby, lets say biking in this instance, and reliable.

d) Surfs the motorways in comfort in work time

e) Doesn’t cost more than £10k.

?

Here’s my suggestion

which ignores most of your criteria because

a) Very subjective. Do you mean sporty as in fun, nimble handling etc or do you mean a big engine and a good noise? For your budget you’ll struggle to have both.

b) Why would you want this? Honestly, you’re probably better off trying to impress the dads and the sons and you might get a knock on effect from that but I could think of nothing weirder than wanting to impress the school run milfs. Besides most women aren’t really interested in cars other than the badge and the colour and they’ll probably just think you’re a pathetic loser trying to peacock with your noisey/sporty/flashy car regardless. Might as well have something fun.

c) Well it’s perfect for C. Check.

d) Auto box with loads of torque. Check.

e) Check.

Someone bought me a grinder and fresh artisanal beans (presumably from the remote highland forests of somewhere exotic because they were bloody expensive). It made nice coffee but I couldn’t really tell much difference between it and the lavazza oro vacuum packed stuff I normally buy.  Clearly good coffee is wasted on me.

Yak

There’s some nice options above ^ but not cheap.

Or just get a 6 or 8lb roughneck maul from screwfix and be done with it.

Which is still £35 and nearly three times as heavy as something which performs ten times better. Too bad if you can’t spend another £15 on something that’ll do the job quicker, with less effort and pain to your joints and which is infinitely tuneable, customiseable and recyclable.

It’s worth remembering that fiberglass handled mauls break too – the resin holding the handle on cracks after a while leaving you with more plastic for the landfill and a lump of steel that doesn’t conform to traditional axe handle patterns (and is worthless anyway).

What was parked outside and did you shit on it?

Charred human remains. What’s your point?

Stoner

Dont buy an “Axe”.

Absolutely do buy an “Axe”. A “Splitting Axe” to be specific.

I split considerably more than Stoner with one of these.

This was Monday’s

I also have a maul. Hateful and unnecessary things.

yunki

I’m very sorry but why should I feel obligated to enter into your drama at your demand?

It’s a forum, for debate, discussion and chat. You chose to post in the thread presumably to engage in the discussion, unless you thought your statement would be so profound you’d win the internet today and people would marvel at it, in which case you should have thought about what you were posting.

Why would I possibly be afraid of exposing a lack of consistent thought or clarity on a mildly entertaining anonymous cycling forum?

What the hell even makes you think that a life of well thought through and defensible moral standpoints is a way of life that I subscribe to or even respect?

If you’re just posting random noise that doesn’t represent your opinions, or your thoughts then why bother posting? If you’re not trying to express your own opinions you’re basically trolling and of little use to any community. If you don’t respect that, or can’t grasp that, fine, but you forfeit the right to call bullshit on any other posters or anyone else you might be commenting on who’s posts or statements lack truth or consistency.

However, if I heard that CG had poo’ed on the backseat of a Bentley convertible I imagine that I would quite possibly LOL with pride

If you’d heard that CG had defecated on the backseat of a Mini convertible would you lol with pride? What’s the threshold here? Where are you setting the bar for things you applaud shitting on?

yunki

yup

if that offends you it only pleases me more

However I’m not the type to get upset by obscene displays of wealth.

You don’t get upset by obscene displays of wealth, but you comment that “cars like that are obscene” and they should be shit upon. That seems consistent.

Now stop asking me stupid questions

There’s nothing stupid about the question I asked, you referred to a certain type of car as obscene without knowing the value of the car. In reply I asked what would be the maximum you would allow people to spend on a car, since you clearly think expensive cars are wrong.  Are you afraid to answer since it’ll expose the complete lack of thought or clarity in your earlier post?

Constant pop ups on my android phone / chrome browser.  About every 3 minutes or so.

yunki

Cars like that are obscene.

Cars like what? Without knowing the year and model it might be a second hand car worth £30k, might be a rental, might be someone’s pride and joy even though they have a modest house? They might be financed up to the eyeballs. Why do you care?

If you were in charge what’s the maximum you would allow people to spend on a car?

I would have applauded you if you’d taken a dump on the back seat while they were in getting tacky ornaments and ill-fitting clothes.

Would you generally applaud someone for defecating on another person’s property just so long as you perceive it to be an indulgence?

A bargain at £33,950   ….just the thing for convincing people you’re too posh for TK Maxx.

..coupes are going for about £20,000. A lot of car for the money.

bodgy

If a thing, person or thought really annoys DM readers then I instinctively like and trust it.

What a strange way to think.

geetee1972

but beyond that I have no clue as to who or what she is.

She’s the woman Prince Harry is marrying. You know who Prince Harry is right?

Heck even the most ardent anti-royalist has to like Prince Harry.

I am aware of Prince Harry, yes. Beyond that I have no idea what he does, and I am at a loss as to why anyone would have to like him. If he was to star in his own reality tv show like Keeping up with the Kardashians then I might be able to get a batter sense of how he spends his time and what kind of person he is but without that I don’t have a clue.

I learned a lot more about Meghan Merkel from this thread than I did previously. Did she star in anything good?

Joining a dual carriageway this moring an Audi pulled out in front of an ambulance to overtake me……almost thread worthy I thought but 12 hours later I just can’t summon the ire.

I know who this woman is because I see her face on the front of tabloid newspapers and I see that she is marrying one of your exalted and beloved royal family, but beyond that I have no clue as to who or what she is.

45,000ish trouble free miles in our 125bhp 6 speed Focus. Great engine, perfect for the car. We got an overall average of 39/40 when we lived in the city. Rural living it delivers an average of about 44mpg. It’ll do high 50s/60mpg on a flat motorway and I got an average 49mpg over a 300 mile roundtrip to Dublin which encompassed country roads, B roads, motorway and city driving and I was in a hurry.

The only thing making me want to get something else is a growing family. Great engine, fantastic powerband, does almost everything well.

Just finished it and my initial reaction – I loved it. It’s far from a perfect film (under developed characters, some miscastings) but I loved the fact that it generally didn’t feel like a “typical” Hollywood sci-fi or action movie in that it took time to build tension, scares were built either on repulsion or tension as opposed to loud noises and it was lovely to look at. It has a unique (to major films) visual style which I loved and a genuine sense of exploration or mystery which builds throughout the film.

It does kind of fall back on some well worn troupes but it does so in such a way as to make them feel fresh. In my opinion this felt like the film Prometheus should have been. My initial reaction to this getting bought by Netflix and losing world wide cinema release would be a blow to Alex Garland but having watched it, and assuming it’ll get a massive audience with genuine sci-fi and film fans all over the world I think this will really help his career.

wiggles

I’d still say that by definition killing someone when you mean to is murder even if you are an armed police officer… However if you killing is going to immediately stop them killing Someone else that would be justified,

Well the actual definition is “The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another” so going by that a lawful killing is not murder.

As far as Fred west, he killed him self so nobody can really change that can they

Yes he killed himself. I’m asking if society is better off because he killed himself vs how we would be had he been prevented from killing himself and still in jail. It’s slightly rhetorical, but people will say he cheated justice, the inference being that suicide is preferable to life imprisonment.

If Anders Brevik had been shot and killed rather than taken alive would Norway have been better or worse off? You’re allowed to form an opinion based on something hypothetical.

“An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind” as the man in sandles once said

That’s just another empty platitude though. It doesn’t represent the full complexity of the argument.

on1973

There is a meme doing the rounds on FB comparing the pollution of a cruise ship to a million cars. Not sure of the truth behind it though.

I’m guessing it’s no worse then jetting off somewhere in an aeroplane.

Apparently not.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2006/dec/20/cruises.green

…and that’s from the Guardian so it must be true.

wiggles

So if a doctor turns off a a patient’s life support, thus killing them in a premeditated way = murder? Euthanasia clinics where people with terminal degenerative illnesses chose to go to die = murder ? Soldiers planning to attack an enemy location? Also murder?

First one is no because that’s stopped keeping them “alive” rather than killing them.

Euthanasia clinics make it so the patient usually has to press a button/drink something themselves to actually kill them. Also the person dying is consenting and wants it to happen so hardly comparible to cold blooded murder…

Third one it is murder through isn’t it?

You’re getting into arguing semantics and definitions of words. If you assist a suicidal person with all of the aparatus for ending their life you are partly responsible for their death. Anyway, I only wanted to push back against your statement that any premeditated killing automatically equals murder.

I’ll give you an alternative third option. Armed police are on their way to a terror attack. Two men are hacking people to death with machetes. By responding to the call and driving to the scene they are making a conscious decision that may very well result in them killing someone. If they do nothing, they will certainly not kill anyone, only allow more people to be killed. They make the decision to drive to the scene of the attack and kill the terrorists. By your definition they are now murderers. Assuming everything is above board, the state deems this killing to be lawful and society accepts it as a necessary evil for the greater good, so there are circumstances where killing is deemed better than not killing.

Consider Fred West. Is society better or worse for his suicide? If you argue worse, and that he escaped justice, you are making the judgement that life in a cage is worse than death, and you are seeking punishment, not justice.

wiggles

I don’t believe it is… In my eyes killing is killing and just because you decide to do it out of revenge in a state sponsored way you are still killing someone on purpose in a premeditated way = murder.

So if a doctor turns off a a patient’s life support, thus killing them in a premeditated way = murder? Euthanasia clinics where people with terminal degenerative illnesses chose to go to die = murder ? Soldiers planning to attack an enemy location? Also murder?

seadog101

There is a meme doing the rounds on FB comparing the pollution of a cruise ship to a million cars. Not sure of the truth behind it though.

Emmissions per tonne per mile make shipping by far the greenest way to move things around…

It might be the most efficient way to move “things” around, sure. Cars. Televisions. Ipads. But it’s hardly the most efficient way to move 1000 leathery pensioners about.

wiggles

There was a judge (who didn’t believe in the death penalty) who put it quite well by saying something along the lines of

“We don’t steal from theives, we don’t rape rapists, we don’t torch the house of arsonists, so why do we murder murderers”

An empty platitude which imo is an oversimplification of a very complex problem. If the state decides you’re guilty it will remove all your privileges, chief among them your freedom, whether you consent or not. And while few will admit it we tacitly condone or celebrate the fact that a rapist or a child molester is being sent to a place where they can or will be violently attacked, raped or even murdered behind closed doors.

I’m against the death penalty because no legal system is infallible and mistakes would be made. Morally though, I can’t see any reason to keep someone like an Anders Brevik character alive.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/annihilation-new-sci-fi-film-from-alex-garland/

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>jambalaya
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OP definitely get some test drives on rougher roads. Some of the SUVs we have driven recently have been setup like “sports cars” with low profile tyres and firm suspension.

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You’re not wrong but I think the term is so vague/overused/misapplied that it spans everything from a Nissan Juke to a Porsche Cayenne or G-Wagon.

I use an Arbpro Galaxy (also sold as CT X-Arbor) which you can buy with chipper spec ear protection online (there’s only a few places that sell them). It’s lightweight and I find it pretty comfy.

Some people are content to lie on a beach or the deck of a boat and sun bathe. I am not such a person and need to be doing stuff. In laws (late 30s) went on a cruise for their honeymoon. They hated it.

ninfan

still does not solve Ireland and other borders ?

EU have already solved their own problem with that, with an extensive report on how to avoid a hard border that completely undermines all their own posturing:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf

I haven’t read it all but I did skim it and search for a few keywords such as IRA, Republican, Violence, Vandalism, Dissident, Murder, Smuggle, Kill, Intimidation etc but there seems to be no mention or consideration given. It’s as if someone thought they’d just look at borders anywhere else in the world that wasn’t a warzone and thought, yeah, that’ll do rightly.

Op will disappear without further comment.

Apparently we’ll see level 4 autonomous cars in 2 to 4 years with level five soon after that. No doubt they’ll be hugely popular with the tablet addicted generation. It doesn’t take a great deal of imagination to see how mandatory re testing for dumb car ludites would become popular.

At the minute I think you’d just see a huge increase in uninsured and illegal drivers.