Nixie – you are a little quicker (my ftp is 318w) than me and a little lighter and i generally race towards the pointy end of B. Strangely i did the CHOP race today and was dq’d, i think it suggested i should upgrade even though i only finished with stats of 3.8w/kg and 307w avg. i think you will find the upgrade to A isnt a massive difference until you race the top A’s. I have done a few races in A and managed to hold my own in the pack but just didnt get near the trophy end. In small fields i did struggle and ended up in no mans land.

260w for 30 mins is a fairly strong C mate…. with a bit of drafting thrown in there you should be at the pointy end on a Richmond flat with them numbers.

@weeksy – I can only seem to generate those numbers on hills hence I think I need to make It harder for myself by changing gear or upping the realism. At my weight 260W only gives 2.2 W/kg though so still not challenging the upper reaches of D. I guess speed is only based on W/kg rather than just W.

@blader1611 I wonder if it was the 5m effort that put you over or the weight testing the other day. Sure I’ve read a thread in the ZP forum today that suggests it is more than just the 95% in the current event that may put you over. You also seem to have got an A upgrade for the Auz KISS crit race the other day.

Or actually is it that ZP thinks you should be A (your skill is listed as A). Pretty sure another thread specified that if the event organiser turns on a setting you have to race in the cat ZP thinks you should be in or you get an automatic DQ.

There is no way I’m going to get near the top A’s, just don’t have the time. Maybe I should go all in and eat pies will my weight goes up :D.

I saw you in the B’s last night @Nixie I was supposed to be in that race but the little ‘un woke up and I drew the short straw (by that I mean i’d been out on the MTB on Tuesday night so it was my wifes turn to ride!)

Looked like a good race though, i was fol.owing on the companion app while trying to get the little sod back to sleep!

@scaled I noticed you in the list before the start and wondered where you’d gone. Fortunately my little terror was just asleep enough for me to race.

Ive just joined Zwift in a bid to get fit. I’ve only done one ride and its telling me i have an FTP of 179, which i gather is pretty pants??

Still, at least i know my starting point.

 I’ve only done one ride and its telling me i have an FTP of 179, which i gather is pretty pants??

It’s higher than that, you’ve just not learned to suffer properly yet 😉

It’s higher than that, you’ve just not learned to suffer properly yet

Ha ha. Well it wasn’t from one of the FTP tests its just on that huge climb out of Innsbruck. But i was trying to the point of being seriously light headed afterwards.

That’s a big climb though with some nasty steep sections, well done getting up there as a first ride!

The light headed and jelly legs does get better. The first few events I did I could barely walk downstairs afterwards.

LOL it’s a good point from Scaled, you’ll be amazed how many people go “wow i’ve improved by 40w in the first 2 weeks..” Odds are, they’ve probably not… as he says, you just learn and your body learns…. You just get the rsults quickly…

I guess speed is only based on W/kg rather than just W.

Nope. It’s more like real life. Your w/kg (power to weight) is the main determinant of your speed on climbs, the steeper the climb, the more it matters. But on flat stuff, the main factor slowing you down is wind resistance rather than gravity, so raw wattage is more important.

That’s why a very light rider with a good power to weight ratio can still struggle to make ground on the flat – just like real life – but will fly away from you when you hit a hill. It’s also why group rides based on w/kg are a nonsense on Zwift. If I weigh 50kg (I don’t) and am putting out 2 w/kg that’ll be 100 watts. If you weigh 100kg, at the same w/kg figure, you’ll be churning out 200 watts. On a climb we’d go roughly at the same pace once things got steep enough, but on the flat, you’d romp off into the distance unless drafting comes into play.

You can generally suss out people’s weight both by looking at their avatar and, if you can be bothered, clicking on their name on the rider list, at which point you’ll see their actual power output and can relate it to the w/kg figure. You can then work out where you’re likely to be able to drop them (or not…) HR is handy too, in that if they’re putting out really high figures, they’re probably working hard, though obviously you don’t know what their range is.

And ftp on its own doesn’t tell you if someone’s quicker than you. Maybe in a one hour TT, but in a race situation, you could have equal ftp outputs and weight, but if you’re better able to recover from repeated efforts above threshold, for example, you could potentially drag them up there repeatedly until they can’t respond.

All of which is pretty obvious once you think it through, but oddly fascinating if your head works that way.

Blackflag – seriously light headed is only the first rung of the pain ladder. The top rung is when you have to ask your partner to pick up your lungs from the floor and put them back down your throat. Thats not a bad start though and you will find as you gain experience of the routes and tactics it will be easier to suffer more and progress through the ranks.

Badlywired is spot on as my experiment proved  the other day. I weight doped and flew up the hills like a mountain goat but on the flats in between i was either losing time or hanging on for grim death. Its one of the many reasons why i see it as pointless to cheat by weight as the races are generally a mix of climbing and flat and i would say more flat. I simply couldnt be bothered to alter my weight for every race i went in,its easier to just be fat and pedal a bit faster.

@blader1611 don’t forget the ‘urgent trip to the en-suite/window/door’ rung.

blader – interesting because that shouldn’t be how it worked. Your power is obviously what it is – say nominal 300w.

At 100kg you’d be 3w/kg for climbing and 300w / cross section area based on 100kg/height on the flat

At 50kg you’d be 6w/kg for climbing and 300w / a smaller cross section area (or at least no bigger) on the flat

So you’d be much faster climbing and a little quicker on the flat

In theory at least

I thought avatar size, i.e. your frontal drag had an effect as well. So taller/shorter would make a difference as well as more drag for a heavier rider (based on more weight probably meaning a larger profile). Clearly this will not be as pronounced as weight on a hill.

Also don’t forget equipment variance.

Sure so assuming he kept height the same, the frontal area would be at worst the same (or less if Zwift modifies it for weight too which I suspect it does – eg fatter = more frontal area for a given height).

Either way, it’s surprising if it really results in the flats being harder.

@blader1611 don’t forget the ‘urgent trip to the en-suite/window/door’ rung.

I was eyeing up the builders trug next to the bike the other day, there were a few tools in it that i’d have had to clean the sick off but I figured at least I could take them out to the hose pipe and clean them off there, where as if I just puked on the floor of the garage it’d stink for ages 😀

With regards to avatars, mine has a HUGE arse (76KG and 6’2)

just rejoined after seeing the weather forecast for the next week

looking forward to an e-kicking sometime soon

HUGE arse (76KG and 6’2)

unless you’ve unlocked some Kardashian implant, yo’ ass ain’t all that, sister !

Either way, it’s surprising if it really results in the flats being harder.

Yeah, I suspect it’s a relative thing. If you’re flying past people on the climbs, the flats probably feel slower by comparison. And obviously it’s a continuum as far as climbing goes, the steeper the hills, the more w/kg is going to be the prime determinant, but on gentler gradients, it’s going to be less of a factor.

Where it’s interesting is, say, on a stepped climb, where if you’re heavier but capable of putting out more watts than a lightweight climber, you can maybe hold them on the steep bits, but then hammer the flats, to put time into them there. And vice versa.

Definitely. With my lardy arse but high power output (when sprinting at least) I’ve used that in races – up to about 5% I can burn off the skinnies so long as the climb isn’t too long -eg the little hill in Innsbruck – and then if there’s a flat or better still a DH the other side, really set that gap in – useful tactic I find. Doesn’t look so smart on Alpe du Zwift though 😆

That hill, hell, every time up it I need 4.5w/kg or more just hold hold the group of B/C I find myself in. That’s 410w or more up it for me, that’s just a killer.

If you do more power though weeksy you don’t have to hold it for as long 😉

That hill is only 60s of effort……

And your point? It takes me from 165 to over my red line at 180. After that, I’m struggling ! It then has a domino effect of killing me for the rest of the race.

Yeah me too, I max out my HR on that hill most times up it. I force myself to push the extra 5-10s out around the corner as the payoff is worth it but it’s a killer overall.

Did the BRT Criterium race tonight. Managed to keep in a Group of C’s/D’s for the first 5 miles. My HR was about 160-165, averaging just under 260W but I couldnt keep the pace and was dropped. I then sat around 220W for the rest of the race generally on my own apart from when the A’s came flying past. I was ahead of quite a few D’s but I think they must have dropped out as by the end of the race I was 47th out 62 but wasnt overtaken and I thought I was last across the line.

Still a hell of a work out though!

Nath was in the same race flying along as well.

Good job. Keep it up and it really won’t be that long till you can hang on for the duration :).

Subbed a workout for a race, carrying a lot of fatigue as I’m trying to cram in 3 intense workouts into 4 days as away at the weekend. Worked a lot and couldn’t sprint at the end, think that just about sums up the race but it was in line with expectations.

HR was crazyyyy high throughout, looking forward to a few days rest now!!

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=88428

Gave you a ride on Robbo, keep at it 🙂

So close Nath, you’re in the right ball-park for sure in the results.

Minor change up for me once again. As i’ve scrapped the idea/plan of keeping the Scott CX bike, i’m back needing a slightly revised plan for Zwifting. So the Parkwood is still the beast of choice, but i’ve just purchased a 42T front ring for it. With the 38T fitted i was only using the bottom 2 gears, even for the hill at Insbruck (Admitted it was a click/2 more for the long climb), but for any flat tracks i was spending 90% of my time on the bottom cog… So a 42T has been shipped and i can then give it a decent go 🙂

Ref getting dq’d, keep an eye on races using the enforced ZP categories. This is different to Wkg cat’s. The bigger races are now using these such as the chop, Kiss and WBR to stop people sandbagging in the lower cats.

If you go over the limits you are moved up and cannot go back down(unless you underperform for 90 days) if you enter a lower cat no matter what your power in the race you will be dq’d for dropping below your level.

You will be moved up if you hit the 20 min levels or the 5 min levels. This can be in different races. If you do a hilly race and perform well expect to be moved up. I strongly believe that all races will adopt this soon.

Weight proof is not part of Zada  approval by the way. Just real life rides.

Excellent news on the DQs stuff. I’m getting proper fed up with riders hitting 4W/kg average in Cs… I don’t actually care they’re quicker than me, hell, many people are… I just want fair racing based upon  my ability.  If that means people get bounced out, sure, that’s ace.

Does it stop them entering the lower Cat next time ? or just auto-DQ ? Becasue i’m not convinced these people know/care about the Zwiftpower stuff, they may just race who’s on screen at a given time etc.

Don’t think it stops them entering a lower cat but does mean auto DQ from the ZP results.

WBR are turning off the position board at the end of races like the KISS ones. Only way to see a result will be in zp. With WBR running over 50% of races this might encourage people to both sign up (many still haven’t) and to race in an appropriate cat. All good from my viewpoint although I ďo hate racing without the in race position table.

Its a shame that the two can’e be controlled independently, turn off the final one but leave the in game one as a approx position indicator.

With WBR running over 50% of races this might encourage people to both sign up (many still haven’t)

How will they know though.

If you sign up to Zwift, you won’t necessarily know about Zwiftpower though, they need a way to encourage/force people into signing up for it… At the moment it may simply be they’re not aware.

As people re-join zwift after the summer they will see notes on the race brief informing them that results can be seen on zp and they need to sign up. If people don’t notice this they will probably ask the question “how do I know where I came” to which most will say to look on zp 😊

Had a crack at the 8.10pm EVR 5 laps of the hilly route tonight and moved myself up to group C after my solid performance in group D earlier this week. Holy cra…. that was fast. Most of group C were over the horizon in the first quarter of lap 1. By the 3rd lap I was on my own, adrift from the next group C rider by 2 minutes and the rider behind me, also a C, by 3 minutes. The group A’s lapped me near the end of my fourth lap, hauling out 11 – 12 wkg as I watched them catch me on the leader board.

I finished 9th, 5 mins adrift of 8th place and 9 minutes down from the top 3 C’s. At 33 miles that was a long ride and a bit tedious towards the end. Good to get it done though.

view of weeksy’s garage:

(morning, mate !  😉 )