Viewing 36 posts - 521 through 556 (of 556 total)
  • Zone 2 on a turbo trainer…
  • elray89
    Free Member

    Only way I can do it is on a Zwift group ride at a pace that matches what Z2 is for me. Otherwise the boredom far outweighs the joy despite the benefit, and I would rather try and approximate a Z2 run or climb a hill or something

    asbrooks
    Full Member

    I’ve been trying to do this in a spin bike at the gym. Bruised ribs keeping me off the mtb.
    Anyway I can’t seem to stay in zone 2, I run into zone 3 someway around 25mins. The remainder of the hour is spent with my heart rate tracking up and down between the two.

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    I’ve been trying to do this in a spin bike at the gym. Bruised ribs keeping me off the mtb.
    Anyway I can’t seem to stay in zone 2, I run into zone 3 someway around 25mins. The remainder of the hour is spent with my heart rate tracking up and down between the two.

    Could your heart rate be slightly too high to begin with?

    I get so much conflicting information about what Zone 2 actually is.  I eventually found out about drift tests and have been using it to try to fine tune what heart rate I should actually be aiming for during my zone 2 work.

    Heart Rate Drift Test – Simple Method

    Haze
    Full Member

    Can’t remember where I read it or if/how accurate it is, but believe it’s something like 0.75 x Max HR

    Stay below that, if you’re drifting over back off a touch so your HR levels and your power drifts downwards

    jkomo
    Full Member

    I bought an ebike to commute the 40 mile round trip to work 4 days a week instead of the 2 I was doing on a bike. I wasn’t expecting much fitness improvement, it was more to avoid driving. Being on an ebike meant I was in z2 a lot, unless I was belting along on the flat. Anyway, I’d arrive at work a lot less sweaty and not battered. I looked like I’d lost a fair bit of weight, and my Sunday ride fitness was loads better, so a nice ebike road might work- you go at a decent pace, get outside and stay in Z2.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    Only way I can do it is on a Zwift group ride at a pace that matches what Z2 is for me. Otherwise the boredom far outweighs the joy despite the benefit, and I would rather try and approximate a Z2 run or climb a hill or something

    I’ve only just caved in and started Zwifting in the last couple of weeks, I can see the appeal but it’s quite easy to get sucked into the habit of flogging yourself unnecessarily, I’ve not tried group rides yet, but I have tried a couple of ramping workout sessions just to see how I am able o hold a given target power. Because it seemingly estimates default zones based on power not %HR I reckon my Zones are all currently a bit high, last night it suggested I need to do a ramp test to recalibrate my zones.

    Having said that after I’d done a 25 min ramping workout that topped out at Z6 I just sat and span round wattopia for an hour at about what my normal Z2-Z3 HR level is IRL, mostly ignoring the wattage, and it was OK, it’s just hard to resist jumping on as a big groups come by or chasing people down, but I just don’t have the legs for it currently and that isn’t why I’ve taken Zwift up.

    I still think I’d struggle to do the 12hrs a week on a trainer regime described a page back, but I suppose if the goal is to cram in massive Z2 volume irrespective of weather and around a normal life, that’s just what you have to do right(?).

    I’ve been trying to do this in a spin bike at the gym. Bruised ribs keeping me off the mtb.
    Anyway I can’t seem to stay in zone 2, I run into zone 3 someway around 25mins. The remainder of the hour is spent with my heart rate tracking up and down between the two.

    Is this just you solo on a spin bike, or a led session? IME the Gym bunnies that lead spinning classes tend to be trying to get attendees to dip in and out of Z4/Z5. But do you want to be just holding Z2? If you’re trying to maintain strength/stamina for a return to real life MTBing perhaps a bit of ramped up efforts with recovery inbetween is appropriate?

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    the paced rides on zwift are great for this sort of thing. pick the right bot for the power output you want and there is enough movement in the group to keep some interest.

    iainc
    Full Member

    jam-boFull Member
    the paced rides on zwift are great for this sort of thing. pick the right bot for the power output you want and there is enough movement in the group to keep some interest.

    +1.  I do these a few times a week, on my Wattbike.  I do have a few custom 60 min Z2 workouts, but find them really boring, just spinning along in ERG mode and keeping the Zwift Companion App needle in the blue Z2 Power zone.

    My Wattbike setup has Zwift on Ipad, Companion on phone and Spotify on Air pods. I find that a paced ride of 60 mins passes pretty quickly, with other riders, hills, gears etc, compared to the monotony of an ERG workout of the same duration.

    asbrooks
    Full Member

    Can’t remember where I read it or if/how accurate it is, but believe it’s something like 0.75 x Max HR

    I should have worked this out earlier, using that calculation, Zone 2 for my age is around 123bpm. Now for the most part I try to keep my heart rate at around 110 to 115bpm, which is what my garmin + chest strap is telling me. The last session my heart peaked at 136bpm twice during the session but the average is given as 118bpm. Either the calculation is incorrect or I have my thresholds set incorrectly.

    I think if I have go slower, I’ll lose the will to live. I tend to listen to pod casts as a distraction, no amount podcast will distract me from a slower pace.

    I’ll be back out riding my bike soon, but would like to keep this up for the odd session in the week when I’m short on time. I intend to have a spin bike in the garage and def off the gym (at least in the summer months) subscription.

    Haze
    Full Member

    I generally use ERG to help pace the Z2 stuff, set at varying intensities between 56-75% FTP.

    Have to watch the HR dosn’t drift above target (I use the three zone polarised model) and knock the intensity down if it strays (fatigue etc).

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    There’s also a calculation that takes into account your resting heart rate as well as your max heart rate.  When I used that one I suspect it was slightly on the high side based on doing a drift test.

    https://theathleteblog.com/heart-rate-zone-calculator/

    iainc
    Full Member

    I think if I have go slower, I’ll lose the will to live.

    can you not just change gear ?  My HR Z2 is 120, with an upper limit of about 135 and lower about 110.  I can do an hour on Zwift workout at a cadence of about 90rpm and120bpm in either ERG or using Wattbike gears on a pacer ride – late 50’s and not very fit.

    Jamz
    Free Member
    GoatKarma
    Free Member

    RE: Zone 2 in Zwift.  I tend to do three things:

    • For 90mins Z2 sessions, I try to find a high-end group C ride(2.8-3.2wkg), either 90mins or 60(plus 30 extra at end), then ride in the bunch.  Favorites are the 12.05 DIRT 90min rides.
    • For 3hr Z2 sessions, either try to find a B-group 100KM ride (and top it up), or join Yumi (2.9wkg) for the time. There’s a decent 100km 3R steady state ride (B or C) at 1745 on Wednesdays.
    • For 8-10hr Z2 sessions, I tend to start with a morning 100-160KM C ride (2.5-4.5hrs), then when that’s finished join Yumi for the remainder. For those I usually have 2 or 3 coffee stops for toilet, and then 15mins proper stop for lunch and a coffee. Decent rides are all around 7am on a Saturday (Evo being the best bunch out of those ones).

    Key things for me are: don’t do completely flat routes, even something like waistband is better than the tempus fugit. You need to the small rises and changes in gradient to help you move around the bike and adjust cadence etc.   I also hardly do ERG for the same reason, as definitely prefer the small changes in power and cadence to keep feeling comfortable on the bike.

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    i think your Z2 would be my Z-dyingmyarse

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    You do 8-10 hours on a turbo?  😱😱😱😱😱😱

    So glad people are all different, I get bored after an hour and can only last that long if I do a race which certainly won’t be zone two.

    asbrooks
    Full Member

    I’ll add that I don’t join the spin classes, it’s just me later in the evenings.

    If I calculate Z2 using my resting heart rate, then it suggests that the high end of z2 is around 132

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    I had a pop at doing one of the condensed ramp tests last night, my FTP came out lower than I’d have liked, but I wasn’t surprised. I just couldn’t hang on above 200W and shifting position/dropping gears to try and up cadence simply messes with ERG mode and then I kind of lost my rhythm, finished the test, but it wasn’t exactly a stunner. I think I’ll do another one in a couple of weeks, maybe when I’m better rested/prepared.

    I’ve not been able to do the miles I’d have liked during the last few months and I’d already noticed a general drop off in strength during the summer. Having picked up Zwift a bit late, I’m just trying to make sense of how to use it constructively. it feels like I can get in in 60-90 mins 4 or 5 evenings a week, but I don’t think I want to spend all of that time just bulking out my Z2 time.

    I think a lot of the issues I currently have come down to the fact that Zwift doesn’t really seem to pay much attention to HR, it looks at Watts and W/kg so the ‘Zones’ I’m used to, based on HR don’t really align, and I’m not used to training to power.

    Hopefully now it’s got a recalibrated idea of my FTP Zwift will adjust things accordingly(?)

    So I think I’ll try a couple of the paced rides, at a ‘Z2’ power level (Circa 2W/kg for me I think), and I might start trying the ‘FTP builder’ and/or ‘Climbing power’ focused Workouts.

    Or does it all HAVE to be Z2 to build/maintain endurance?
    Will I be doing myself more harm than good mixing things up like this?

    DickBarton
    Full Member

    I suspect any biking will be good, but it may not be the focussed good you are looking for.
    I’m new to Zwift and can’t quite get my head round it – laptop is out of reach so I’m ignorant whilst riding as people give me thumbs up and I can’t do anything back.
    I’m finishing work soon and going to see how long I can ride round on Zwift at zone 2 and a bit of 3…trying to build a bit more endurance of time in saddle and miles clocked…

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    You do 8-10 hours on a turbo?

    I’ve done the Uber Pretzel in Zwift which was 7 hours and 6 minutes for 88 miles and 7,841ft of climbing. It wasn’t a pleasant experience

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    laptop is out of reach so I’m ignorant whilst riding as people give me thumbs up and I can’t do anything back.

    Download Zwift companion app to your phone. Lets you do a lot of stuff in ride easier than reaching for the laptop or tablet

    iainc
    Full Member

     going to see how long I can ride round on Zwift at zone 2 and a bit of 3…trying to build a bit more endurance of time in saddle and miles clocked…

    if you join an appropriate pacer ride that should be relatively enjoyable and the time should pass quickly.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    laptop is out of reach so I’m ignorant whilst riding as people give me thumbs up and I can’t do anything back.

    I’ve bought a cheapy wireless mini-keyboard and I’m fashioning something to pop it just out front on the bars, signal in the garage is a bit dire for the mobile, I don’t really like the partner app TBH and it generally seems easier to use shortcut keys than podge and swipe at a touchscreen (IMO)…

    susepic
    Full Member

    Zone 2 for my age is around 123bpm.

    Asbrooks,your Z2 is not based on your age, but on your physiology. If you’re basing your HRmax on (220 – your age) you’ll likely be calculating your zones wrong. Better to get a “real you” estimate of HRmax and work your zones from there. And then use a website like crickles to give you data based estimates of your zone boundaries, which will change w fitness levels, your LTHR can improve as you get fitter

    there are different formulae to calculate zones, based on HRmax or HRR(Karvonen) or %LTHR.

    But Zwift is basing it’s zones on Power anyway isn’t it, so you need to be thinking about your FTP more than HR. I’m still trying to get my head around that, as on short rides it feels easy cf HR zones, but on longer rides it starts to feel harder cf HR zones

    joebristol
    Full Member

    For zone 2 on Zwift I just use one of their erg based workouts and run it off my iPhone whilst watching something on Disney channel on my main screen via Apple TV. Although I’m finding the Zwift set workouts aren’t as varied as the TrainerRoad ones I used to use. I need to have a play around and see if I can build my own.

    If I manage to work it out I was going to take my ftp and put in different intervals between 55-75-% of ftp. Maybe a gradual ramp up and ramp back down. For an hour or an hour and a half depending on life / time for exercise.

    I don’t have the free time to spend 2 hours+ exercising really…..so I’m never going to get in hours and hours of zone 2. My fitness out on my real bikes feels pretty good at the moment – although I’m mostly either doing zone 2 or hammering at threshold on a race with Zwift. When I used TrainerRoad I used to do a lot of sweet spot training so maybe I ought to fit some more of that back in really.

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    I just do the pacer group thing. If you fall asleep and drop off the back, just teleport back in rather than doing any actual work is my hot tip. Mostly I choose not to do zone 2 indoors – I choose, fresh air, I choose roads, I choose trails, I choose life… 😉

    I’m sure there’s a market out there for some sort of fast-acting general Mogadon-like drug that will allow you to pedal for hours around Watopia without any awareness that you’re actually there, Zwiftadon?

    I get the general principle mind, I snuck out for a ‘steady ride with a mate yesterday that turned into a two-hour, 1100-metre, half-wheeling climb fest, which was very definitely not zone 2 🙁

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    While I’m here, can I ask how many more intense – VO2 Max type sessions – people are doing a week? My last remaining hangover from long covid is a bit of a top-end deficit compared to before times. I don’t know how much was down to missing 18 months of riding or whether I have some sort of physiological issue. I’m very definitely not recovering as well as I used to, but then again I am older than I was.

    Haze
    Full Member

    @joebristol Loads of those kind of workouts on TrainerDay (lots are lifted from TrainerRoad), if you have TrainingPeaks premium you can send them into your calendar and pick them up in Zwift if your accounts are linked…really easy.

    Or create one in TP calendar then copy it to another date, edit etc.

    Doesn’t need to be complex, just interesting enough to hold your attention – you can try adding some cadence or standing drills or something every few minutes, just watch your HR doesn’t drift somewhere where it’s not supposed to be.

    DickBarton
    Full Member

    Download Zwift companion app to your phone. Lets you do a lot of stuff in ride easier than reaching for the laptop or tablet

    Got that and it seems to just freeze…also then requires me to take a hand off my bars – even though I’m parked on a turbo I’ve terrible balance and when I do manage to look at the phone, my legs stop turning…I’m a bit thick with this turbo malarky!

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    requires me to take a hand off my bars

    I use a cheap handle bar mount for my phone. Can keep one hand on the bars

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grefay-Universal-Motorcycle-Handlebar-Smartphone-Black/dp/B08RD62QRX

    DickBarton
    Full Member

    That looks ok but does introduce something else for me to think about…I’m already fighting the boredom of indoor stuff…hahahaha.

    I’m seeing benefits to doing this but I’m struggling to stick to the training plan sessions…I’m fine if the effort is <5 mins but there are several sessions with efforts of 10 or 15 minutes and I struggle to not switch off…

    I think I need to spend more time in the saddle, so need to mix that up with turbo and outdoor.

    Zwift has helped increase the time before utter boredom kicks in, but I need to find training sessions with a lot of variety so the changes keep me engaged – which I suspect isn’t going to help improve things for me properly (however my vo2max has increased 6 points in last 4 weeks according to Garmin so that is good to see, but it is still a long way off where I’d like it to be!).

    This is all still pretty new to me so I suspect things will improve with more time spent on it.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    But Zwift is basing it’s zones on Power anyway isn’t it, so you need to be thinking about your FTP more than HR. I’m still trying to get my head around that, as on short rides it feels easy cf HR zones, but on longer rides it starts to feel harder cf HR zones

    While I’m here, can I ask how many more intense – VO2 Max type sessions – people are doing a week? My last remaining hangover from long covid is a bit of a top-end deficit compared to before times. I don’t know how much was down to missing 18 months of riding or whether I have some sort of physiological issue. I’m very definitely not recovering as well as I used to, but then again I am older than I was.

    Yeah I’m in a similar position, getting weaker and older and wanting to regain some power and recovery capacity for summer but struggling to Piece together a useful ‘training plan’ with Zwift. There are shed loads of workouts available but I’m not totally sure which ones suit my goals/needs and how to block out a plan using them through the next couple of months, and then I went and watched this:

    Plus I’m not really keen to go down a Rabbit hole, I just want to click on a cookie cutter plan that fits my available time that just helps raise my FTP and endurance a wee bit. But I can’t help thinking there’s lots of “Junk workouts” in the Zwift library and I’m not really equipped to differentiate ‘Junk’ from a ‘Goodun’.

    Got that and it seems to just freeze…also then requires me to take a hand off my bars – even though I’m parked on a turbo I’ve terrible balance and when I do manage to look at the phone, my legs stop turning…I’m a bit thick with this turbo malarky!

    Yeah I found the Companion app buggy (more down to WiFi connection in the Garage I think), here’s my solution:

    IMG_20240219_225504425

    Popped it on last night and tried it briefly. It seems to work nicely, but you do have to remember all the Keyboard shortcuts, and to chuck a towel over it when I’m heaving on a big interval.

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    I don’t bother with the workouts or training plans.

    either bot rides at the Z2/3 pace I feel like, or races. quite liking the short lap crit races at the moment.

    stevious
    Full Member

    I spotted this from Andy Coggan (who has *some* knowledge of how training zones work) on the TR forum talking about Z2:

    https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/lactate-and-lipolysis-zone-2-mania/88066/5?u=stevious

    It’s quite long but he does summarise:

    TL, DR: It’s all good! In particular, training at a VERY wide range of intensities leads to an increase in mitochondrial respiratory capacity. There is absolutely nothing special about so-called “zone 2” in this regard, except perhaps the fact that you can do more of it, resulting in a greater overall “dose” of training (i.e., combination of volume and intensity).* Anybody touting the “magical” nature of zone 2 and mitochondria simply doesn’t know what they’re talking about (this includes folks like ISM and Attia).

    I personally fnd this really reassuring when I’m sweating over whether I’m in the right zone or not.

    susepic
    Full Member

    I just want to click on a cookie cutter plan that fits my available time that just helps raise my FTP and endurance a wee bit.

    Yes, i’m doing the GranFondo 8 week plan, and seeing how that goes, but not sure how well it adapts. Will watch that video later and see what that has to say. May just have to go and do reps on the Beacon to see how my fitness is improving….
    My BiL used a Zwift plan synched from a TraiiingPeaks coahed plan – and that seemed to work for him, but he is a bit more committed than me. This year he is using Zwift in conjuntion with the JOIN ai coaching app. He says that is usfeul as it is adaptive to your sufferscore and if you miss a workout. It’s yet another £10 a month so not sure if i can be bovvered.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    Will watch that video later and see what that has to say.

    Don’t, He’s just saying Zwift training plans are too complex and/or use badly structured workouts.

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