New bike has Yari. Pondering damper upgrade by either buying Charger 2.1 or swapping it with my Charger damper in my old Lyriks.

Cheap option is using old Charger damper.

Expensive option is new Charger 2.1 damper. In fact there is not a lot in buying a Lyrik or even a Pike Ultimate and selling the Yari.

Or do I just ride the Yari? (and accept that I am the weakest link in the whole bicycle equation…)

Does it have the motion control damper or the charger RC damper? If the former, a charger will be a big improvement.

I ran one of the first versions of the Yari, it was a great fork, especially after I fitted a luffkape, so good I didn’t bother upgrading the damper.

I’ve got a Lyrik RC2 now, I have to admit it’s leagues better, especially if you’re have to brake and turn through a rough section, the Yari would get all upset and blow through it’s travel, the Lyrik laughs at that sort of thing, it’s really magic.

Has anyone upgraded to the debonair shaft and fitted a luftkappe?

It looks like Motion Control for the damping – spec says:

RockShox Yari RC, DebonAir, Motion Control RC damper

On the the upside it is Debonair

There are better but more expensive options, but for bang per buck I was very pleased with a luftkappe – more mid stroke support and plush off the top. No need for tokens too for me at 160 travel. Only downside is it still gets iffy on fast Rocky repetitive hits.

Has anyone upgraded to the debonair shaft and fitted a luftkappe?

Unless I’m wrong there wouldn’t be any point. The Lufftkappe replaces the bit that makes debonair, debonair. (or, copies it).

@P-Jay – yes just realised what the debonair shaft does….. that’s saved me £65 😀

Here is my musing on a very similar quandary:

https://go.skimresources.com/?id=91808X1545679&xs=1&isjs=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fclient%3Dinternal-uds-cse%26cx%3Dpartner-pub-4159764050565757%3A4462134906%26q%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsingletrackworld.com%2Fforum%2Ftopic%2Frs-yari-transformation-mrp-debonair-charger-2-1-upgrades%2F%26sa%3DU%26ved%3D2ahUKEwj0tuSyzqzjAhXUVBUIHW5sDm0QFjACegQIIBAC%26usg%3DAOvVaw0E-xkSaxR1LpikkWFMr91P&xguid=&xuuid=04b706bfc8e3a092417392a843152aa9&xsessid=&xcreo=0&xed=0&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fsingletrackworld.com%2Fsearch-test%3Fq%3Dcharger%2B2.1%23gsc.tab%3D0%26gsc.q%3Dcharger%25202.1%26gsc.page%3D1&pref=https%3A%2F%2Fsingletrackworld.com%2Fforum%2Fforum%2Fbike-forum%2F&xtz=-60&jv=3.21.4-stackpath&bv=2.5.1

What additional adjustment do you get on the charger over the standard moco?

Has anyone tried the FAST Yari-Up Damper?

https://www.tftuned.com/new-2019-v2-fast-yarirevelation-up-3-way-damper-upgrade/p3365

Obviously more expensive then the charger but has more adjustment.

I went to the Charger 2 damper (RCT3) on a Yari from a Charger(at least that’s what it said on the top cap adjuster), difference was night and day. Could be as much related to the lower leg service that I also did BUT before it was spiky, nasty and harsh and I could not get it to feel any better than awful.

I’d get to the end of any run feeling like I’d been beaten up. Now, it’s great!

I chose the Charger 2 over the 2.1 purely on cost.

following as I’m also pondering this. I’ve been fettling my 140 Yari to try and get the travel and the support I want from it and can’t quite get it there.

Bike Discount have the Charger 2.1 RCT3 for £180 delivered, RC2 is more expensive so is it the same damper but different range of adjustment?

What additional adjustment do you get on the charger over the standard moco?

MoCo has compression and rebound adjsutment. Chargers come in a few specs, but essentially the same, bar the compression is just low speed, the RCT3 has a DH/Trail/Climb style adjustment too.

But it’s not about adjustment, it’s pure performance advantage. I hate to say it, I am a huge Yari fan, but Charger is massively better.

Not sure how I’d feel about a Yari Charger, they chassis would be the same as my Lyrik, I’d say it would be closer to a Lyrik in performance than a Yari Moco.

Leave it, see how it rides, upgrade the damper if necessary. Spend the money on beer if you’re happy with how it rides.

Thanks all. I am gonna ride the forks and see how the summer goes. If I can notice a negative difference from how my old Lyriks felt, then I’ll buy a Charger 2 or 2.1 damper.

I’ve ridden the Motion Control Yari for a couple of years. Never felt like it was holding me back, especially once it had the 2019 Debonair spring in it. However, the Charger 2.1 is an absolute bargain on Bike Discount at the moment, so I installed that a few days ago. Initial impressions are that it is better, but it’s not night and day. I’m going to do some longer runs later today and see what the times are like over a range of trails.

JP

Another bump on this.
Been playing with the Yari on the new build and noticed I’m ‘missing’ about 10-15mm of travel (160mm and currently about 145-150).
When I fully deflate the forks they don’t go all the way down – they pop back up about 10-15mm.
Is this air trapped in the negative side of the spring?
I tried bouncing it a few times but was only getting a small amount of air out if I pressed the valve core in.
What’s the solution?

I’ve had two sets of Yaris and they’ve never got full travel. I’ve no idea why.

Another bump on this.
Been playing with the Yari on the new build and noticed I’m ‘missing’ about 10-15mm of travel (160mm and currently about 145-150).
When I fully deflate the forks they don’t go all the way down – they pop back up about 10-15mm.
Is this air trapped in the negative side of the spring?
I tried bouncing it a few times but was only getting a small amount of air out if I pressed the valve core in.
What’s the solution?

Most RS stuff in my limited experience is prone to getting air in the negative chamber. Perhaps fox do too, you just can’t spot it as easily.

I always try to make sire the shaft is all the way down when I reinstall it, can be easier said than done.

The Yari is sublimely easy to home service, apart from the sodding circlips.

2.1 RCT3 from bikediscount is the way to go, then slik graphics for some lyrik decals.

I’ve had two sets of Yaris and they’ve never got full travel. I’ve no idea why.

Yes, I’ve tried all kinds of combos of tokens, pressure and settings and if I run them soft enough (and with fewer tokens) to get most of the travel then they tend to get hung up on sharp compressions. Admittedly I’m no suspension expert but I’m thinking of giving the Charger 2.1 a go. Best price on bike-discount as endomick says.

If it helps I just changed the oil in my Yari from the standard 5wt to 2.5wt using reverb oil. They feel so much better now. Much less harsh on smaller bumps. I read a lot of peoe saying they feel harsh on smaller bumps so thought it give this a try and it’s made a good improvement.

Yaris will hit full travel – you just need to remove the tokens and run them at the right pressure. This said, I’d generally only achieve full travel when hitting the bigger drops at Wind Hill or BPW.

JP

Moco isn’t a bad damper, I feel it gets binned a bit too quickly just because there is an easy upgrade path available. It’s not as good as a charger, but you can make it totally acceptable with a bit of effort.

The window of “good” is narrower than a charger. You can throw a charger in and have all your compression settings out and it stil feels o.k. The Moco needs proper setup to get close, so you need to make the effort. It could be just 2 clicks of rebound from crap to decent. Start with rockshox trailhead and work from there making minor adjustments during a ride.

It does go off if you don’t service it to schedule. And it’s best not to assume oil levels are bang on from the factory. You can put lighter oil in to make it more sensitive, but beware if you are a big lad/lass as it might just blow through.

You won’t fix issues of travel with a new damper. It’s on the spring side and for me, adding a few psi of air while rebuilding and then inflating gradually seems to sort out the negative air issues. Beyond that you just need to get the setup right and then look at your riding position – most people seem to hang off the back on descents and then wonder why the fork isn’t working!

When it’s working, it does an acceptable job. It tracks well, takes the big hits well and should hold you up while braking if setup properly. It won’t feel ultraplush and turn the trail into a pool table for you. It won’t be performing quite as well at the bottom of a long rocky decscent as it was at the top. Depending on where you ride regualarly that might not matter.

Charger 2.1 upgrade… if I was considering it on my Yari, will I miss the extra compression adjustability of the RCT3 over the RC2 version?

Rode my other bike with Pike RCT3s and Charger damper last night and definitely an improvement over the Yari MoCo damper.

PSA – bike discount are out of stock but bike-components.de price matched them at €190. Only downside is the shipping is €9 more expensive. I have one on the way….

@a11y from what I’ve read the RC2 gives you a 5 position high speed compression adjustment compared to 3 position on the rct3. 3 of those 5 settings are equivalent to the rct3 but it has 2 ‘more open’ open settings. If that makes sense

@joemmo, thanks for the heads up re bike-components. I was close to ordering the RCT3 version from them earlier and have just submitted a price alert. We’ll see.

I did a bit of searching on RC2 vs RCT3. Yes the RC2 has more adjustability, quite a price difference though… but if I’m spending the money on a new damper I might just go for the top banana… argh I’m undecided.

What about the FAST Yari-Up?
At £230 it’s about the same price as the 2.1 Charger RC2.

Just on the point above about not using all the travel on the Yari. It’s not a spring side issue necessarily – the moco is prone to ramp up so it depends on your weight as to whether you can overcome this. I couldn’t get into the last inch of travel with the moco in (all tokens removed and fork running 30% sag) – changed for an rct3 charger and found I then could get full travel without it being so soft / so sagged.

I thought the 3 big settings on the rct3 are just big low compression setting – open / pedal / firm. The low speed compression dial in the middle gives smaller adjustments for lsc when the 3 position dial is in open.

I believe hex and hsr are fixed. You then have low speed rebound on the bottom of he right leg with either rct3 charger or moco.

Fast Yari Up isn’t a bad cost – when I spoke to tf tuned they said they could get the Fast kit or a charger. The YariUp has more adjustment but the Charger is likely to be more consistent under hard charging through rock gardens.

I think if you’re outside of a standard weight range then the additional control over HSC is worth buying the RC2 version for. If, like me, you’re fairly average in weight then I don’t think you’d need the extra control over HSC, as the standard setting is pretty good.

JP

@joebristol yes I think you’re right about the different adjustment on the RC2 and RCT3, I’d misinterpreted the explanation about what settings the dials controlled

My understanding of RC2 vs RCT3 is the additional adjustment to high-speed compression on RC2:

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/2020-RockShox-Suspension-Overhaul-See-the-New-Signature-Series-Products-Charger-2-1-Damper-Update-an,2657

I’ve only ever ridden the Pike RCT3 (Charger 1 damper) on my other bike in fully open position, so I expect Charger 2.1 RCT3 for my Yari would be more than enough, but I’m only doing this once so went for RC2. Thanks again for the price-match heads-up @joemmo.

I previously used a Pike RCT3 and have been disappointed with Yari performance – mainly on repeated hits – ever since. Spending a lot of time on both my bikes back-to-back on consecutive days on similar terrain just highlighted the difference.

I has a full suss with Pike and then bought a ht with Yari. Was not impressed tbh, they were not a patch on the (older) Pike which in turn have been blown out of the water by my current 36’s. I’d probably sell them and replace with something plusher.

@a11y – you’re welcome. TBH I didn’t expect them to price match when the competitor was out of stock but they did. Hoping to get mine in time for the weekend and a proper ride next week.

@dirkpitt74 – I just installed my Fast Yari-Up V2 on my 2019 Debonair. I configured mine with the “Fast cell foam” that goes around the damper body.(Still not 100% sure what this does yet) So far I am very happy with the upgrade. I ordered directly from Fast Suspension via email. They were excellent to work with and shipped the damper to me in Canada in less than a week! A nice little added bonus was the custom shimmed high speed compression. Fabien asked for my riding style, weight, bike, and to describe my perfect fork. (I thought only the Avalanche cartridge came with custom tuning)

With the stock Moco damper I had to choose between small bump sensitivity and high speed support. Lowering the stock Moco LSC made the fork eat through all of its travel on bigger hits and dialing up the LSC gave me serious wrist pump over small bumps. It always felt like a compromise.

With the Fast Yari-Up I set the LSC and MSC to 15/30 clicks and used the same 5WT oil as stock. The new damper feels worlds better before any adjustment was even made. The bike feels … “slipperier”. Imagine pushing a wheelbarrow with flat tires vs inflated tires. I don’t feel nearly as much resistance going over multiple tree roots at higher speeds. It simply floats over it with no drama.

Of course all of the above could very well be placebo effect from the excitement of shiny new gear. I am still messing around with the dials and tokens. So far I am at 80 PSI with 2 tokens at 160mm travel. I weigh roughly 90kg with full gear and was able to use all but the last 10mm of travel going down local double black diamond trails. I just love being able to charge at rocks/roots full speed without worrying about any wrist destroying spiking.

Reading the above I clearly can’t tell what is going in because I could never feel all that! After one 40km 1350m Lakes ride yesterday I can’t tell the difference between the Yari MoCo damper and my old Lyrik Charger damper.

In other news the Trek Slash suits me well and I was quicker on many trails.

I am just gonna ride it and enjoy it until I can feel some limitations.

I fitted the charger at the weekend (v quick delivery from bike components) along with the new seals, foams and lower leg service. Only had a chance for a short non challenging ride but observations are thus.

– feels buttery smooth – obviously just been serviced so not a surprise.
– straight away getting more travel at least when really pushing hard into the bike, so…
– upped the pressure by 10psi on the previous to get it to 30% sag.

I’m going for a proper ride this week so won’t make any judgement until after that.

Just got back from Wind Hill – first ride there on the Charger 2.1, but have done hundreds of runs there on the Yari. The difference was most noticeable on one of the black trails – Rootiful South – where I’d often manual through a big rooty section to avoid the spiking from the Yari. The Charger is massively better here – you can just barrel through and it skips over everything without the bike losing speed.

JP