Hi,

Can someone give me advice on consumer law with regards to my giant e bike please?

Bought a 2021 trance e for £4650 brand new in July 2022 from Paul’s cycles online.

October 2022 I got the inevitable water ingress that plagues giants.

Local bike shop (giant dealer) had to wait for wait for giant to approve warranty and the fix took 3 weeks+

The was bike is temperamental and the electrics have gremlins. It’s a theme for giants apparently.

Bike packed up again mid Jan 2023 and was sent to the lbs who spoke with giant and giant requested it to go to them.

I was told early February by the giant rider support email that the bike had been fixed, had had a new loom and had been “waterproofed” and was on its way back to the lbs/me.

It didn’t materialise.

I liaised with the lbs who contacted giant themselves who told the lbs that last week (20th) it was having a new motor fitted and hopefully it would be back to me by end of week/early this week.

I’ve emailed giant to ask which is true.

They’ve stated now that it’s not even been looked at.

*The bike has been gone 42 days now.
*It’s been broken/out of use for >25% of my ownership.
*I expressed the wish to reject the bike upon the start of this fault having no faith in the product. I wrote a long letter to giant stating such. That’s been ignored.
*I’ve been lied to.

So today I expressed a wish to reject the bike again and called the unreliability and the fact that I never get to ride it the main problem. I also stated that 42 days to repair a bike and lie about it to me is unreasonable.

Giants reply is:

*The timeframe and the fact it’s spent more than a quarter of its life away from me broken is not unreasonable.

*I can’t reject it.

I don’t want the damn thing. Zero faith in it or the brand.

To top it off I’ve got a three day ebike holiday with friends up in two weeks. All paid for.

To say I’m upset is an understatement.

Where do I stand?
Who can I contact at giant?

The only contact is the rider support email. You can’t even shame them on Facebook.

First world problems I know.

You need to email Ian…

Me, I’d buy something else today, soon as it’s back I’d sell the giant.

Did you pay with a credit card? You might be able to charge back and/or you might be able to claim on card’s own insurance.

Jeez.
Giant customer service/support just seems absolutely bottom tier, this along with the last thread where they were stipulating silly rules to keep the warranty valid.

Good luck resolving it OP.

I predict 50+ pages.

Popcorn ready.

Culminating in a “We asked these brands what they would consider to be a reasonable eBike warranty turnaround period” editorial on the STW website front page.

ulminating in a “We asked these brands what they would consider to be a reasonable eBike warranty turnaround period” editorial on the STW website front page.

Dammit! Are we that predictable?

🙂

I was so sure that the warranty had been invalidated by the owner charging the battery rather than having it done by a Giant Dealer.

First fault at 3 months second at 6 months. I’d say well with looking at sale of goods act with Paul’s Cycles.

ASAP I would send a recorded delivery letter the Paul’s cycles asking for a refund and explaining why. I would then look for help on how to proceed. CAB could be helpful. Some one on hear might be more up to date than me.

Is 42 days and counting reasonable?

Or am I being difficult?

Certainly don’t like being told twice it’s fixed then being told it’s in a queue to be looked at.

Paid with debit card sadly.

@weeksy: don’t have the funds to buy another and giant ebikes are seemingly hard to pass on unless you take a big hit.

I’ll try to contact ian.

Is 42 days and counting reasonable?

Or am I being difficult?

Reasonable, not really no.

You’re being better than I’d be 🙂

Giant are sort of right, you can’t reject it with them.

Your contract is with Paul’s Cycles, you need to speak with them.

Sounds very much like they have no idea what they are doing and are playing parts darts/swapnostics to get the repair.

Waterproofing sounds like jamming a load of dielectric grease in all the sub standard connectors!

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/10/enacted

Me, I’d buy something else today, soon as it’s back I’d sell the giant.

You’d probably do that even if it was working 😉

So my mate had 2 Giant e-bikes from Rutland ordered online
1st had the water issue and bike was back and forth to Rutland
They returned it to him with huge paint chips and other issues he kicked up a stink and got a replacement
The 2nd bike developed major power issues and it was back and forth to Rutland and then he asked if it could go through local giant dealer
Eventually the Local shop refused due to them being liable for ALL future warranty work
It eventually went back to Rutland for Giant and Rutland to sort issue
16+ weeks it took in total between Giant,Rutland and The local shop
Eventually they replaced mOtor,battery controller and wiring loom
He punted it as soon as it was returned

Popcorn ready.

My Giant E commuter thing played up from day 1. Kept in constant contact with Paul’s, it went back to them. Came back, still probs, they had it back. I couldn’t find anything I wanted/ could afford at Paul’s. They refunded me, they were brilliant.

The first thing to understand is that this is not purely a warranty matter, we’re dealing with the Consumer Rights Act.

Consumer Rights Act

The first six months
If you discover the fault within the first six months after buying the product, it is presumed to have been there since the time of purchase – unless the retailer can prove otherwise. During this time, it’s up to the retailer to prove that the fault wasn’t there when you bought it – it’s not up to you to prove that it was.

​

If an attempt at repair or replacement has failed, you have the right to reject the goods for a full refund or price reduction – if you wish to keep the product. The retailer can’t make any deductions from your refund in the first six months following an unsuccessful attempt at repair or replacement. The only exception to this rule is motor vehicles, where the retailer may make a reasonable reduction for the use you’ve already had of the vehicle after the first 30 days. If you’d prefer to keep the goods in question, you can request an appropriate price reduction.

So the question is whether St Paul’s Cycles and, by proxy, Giant, have had a reasonable opportunity to either repair or replace the item. Most people would say that they have, and that in the absence of a working bike at this point, you should have the right to reject the goods for a full refund under the CRA.

How did you pay?

@martinhutch

I paid half deposit then took v12 finance for the rest but settled after two weeks as I put the rest on a 0% card for 24 months which I’ve also paid off.

Paul’s website states the warranty is with the manufacturer and up until now they’ve not been helpful.

Hey ho.

I’ll think about it tomorrow.

It’s not simply a warranty issue. It’s a CRA issue between you and St Paul’s. You may also have some recourse via the finance company, even though it’s paid off. Good luck.
You may find that asking the retailer directly whether they are denying you your statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act focuses their minds. They have a reasonable right to attempt a repair. What you describe is not reasonable.

Paul’s website states the warranty is with the manufacturer and up until now they’ve not been helpful.

It is, but this is no longer just a warranty issue and so the dealer must accept responsibility. Unacceptable.

Ahh well,

I got on my high horse gone midnight and sent an email to Paul’s, giant UK and Ian at giant.

Stated my case. Consumer goods act etc.

I’ll update with an outcome.

Cheers.

Good luck.
Buying a new bike and having it gone for that long is not right.
Hope you get it sorted

I don’t see you getting a refund… but hopefully you’ll get a fixed bike to sell and buy something that serves you better this time.

Update:

Giant told me to suck it basically.
Apparently 51 days and counting is reasonable.

No ETA for the bike to be returned or repaired.
No refund.
No rejection.

No response at all from Paul’s cycles in Norwich.
No response from Ian at giant.

Don’t buy a giant people.

Don’t buy anything from Paul’s Cycles either.

Fark, that’s bullocks!

Can’t you just ring Paul’s Cycles given you have a contract with them?

you need to tell the shop where you bought it that you reject it.

Your best bet is a letter to the principal of Pauls Cycles i.e the CEO/owner rejecting the bike on the grounds that it is not fit for purpose because of the water ingress/amount of time it has been unavailable for you to ride. You should give them 2 weeks to reply or comply with this and state that will take legal action if they don’t respond. Your contact is with him/her not Giant… The CEO may try and call your bluff, probably won’t want to go to court though. After that it’s how far you’re prepared to take it. I think you have a good case. Hope you get it sorted…

I think I’d be as cross about being ignored as the faulty bike TBH. If the retailer still won’t engage after reasonable attempts have been made on your part I think @ruffrider is on the right track. If you do decide that approach, this may be helpful Rejection letter

Good luck.

Good shout with the letter @LimboJimbo…

Letter before action then Small Claims IMO

So my mate had a Giant Trance(I think) blueish chameleon colour
Had issues with the motor etc and was in the shop twice to be fixed suffering the same issues
He contacted the CEO of said company with regards to bike being in shop for work as much as he had it to ride
He was informed that due to it being in twice to be fixed and still had the same fault he was legally in his rights to ask for
1:Replacement
2:Refund
So he asked for refund and put extra towards his original price and bought the 2022/23 giant reign that was totally redesigned
Also he was told bh the mechanic there was meant to be a recall on Giant e-bikes due to wiring harness not being fully up to standard as the wires were not properly insulated

Just for balance I have a 22 giant reign e+1 with 2700 miles on it. It’s been the most reliable bike I’ve owned in 25 years, bloody love the thing and it’s never missed a beat.

Your contract is with the shop – nothing to do with Giant.

“which” has good guides on this but given the age of the bike the onus is on you.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product-aTTEK2g0YuEy

If a defect develops after the first six months, the burden is on you to prove that the product was faulty at the time the goods were delivered to you.

In practice, this may require some form of expert report, opinion or evidence of similar problems or defects across the product range.The retailer can also make a deduction from any refund for fair use after the first six months of ownership if an attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful.
You have up to six years to take a claim to the small claims court for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and five years in Scotland.<
This doesn’t mean that a product has to last six years – just that you have this length of time in which to make a claim if a retailer refuses to repair or replace a faulty product.

As a couple of others have said your contract is with Paul’s not Giant.

The warranty is with Giant, but that doesn’t have anything to do with your contract with Paul’s.
What Giant decide to do under warranty is unrelated.

Because you’re over the initial 30 days period Paul’s are entitled to repair or replace the item at their choice. However if the repair fails or takes too long then you are entitled to a refund.
This seems to be where you are.

What if you’ve taken longer to return the goods?

If you take longer than 30 days to return the item, you’ll have to choose between a repair or a replacement. The retailer can veto either though if it’s impossible to carry out a repair or the cost of a replacement is much higher than that of a repair.

If the item is still dodgy after just one attempt at a repair or replacement, the repair or replacement isn’t possible or it hasn’t been carried out quickly enough you’re then entitled to ask for a refund – this could be the full amount within the first six months, or otherwise is likely to be a partial refund

All covered on Money saving expert

I would start with an email stating that Paul’s have failed to repair the first time and then have not returned it to you second time. Including the links and quotes from MSE.

If they don’t respond or respond in your favour then follow up with a further email explaining you will proceed to charge back or small claims court.

If you live near to Paul’s having this conversation loudly, but politely on Saturday at 14:00 in the shop might also persuade them.

The key thing is that this is all with Paul’s not Giant.

Had a similar issue with a sofa from Cream Cornwall. It took 8 months but we eventually got a refund

following as i have had the same issues with a 2020 reign and are now at the end of my rope with it

As I said before you need to write a letter to Paul’s Cycles ASAP asking for refund under the sale of goods act. There is good advice about this above. The letter must be recorded delivery.

You need to be able to demonstrate that you rejected the bike, why you rejected and that Paul’s cycles know this.

Ignoring you is just them trying to time you out. A recorded delivery letter proves they knew you weren’t happy and when.

A citizens advice bureau can help with this for free

its not the sale of goods act anymore and hasn’t been for years

A welcome correction TJ. But the letter advice is still crucial. They’ll know they can claim they didn’t receive or read emails