Wood burners under attack again

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 111 total)
  • Wood burners under attack again
  • sharkbait
    Member

    Anybody know what the difference is between a ‘dirty’ stove and a ‘clean’ stove?

    I thought that the issue was more related to the actual wood/fuel that was being burnt – wet wood is worse then properly dry wood.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Looks like the real criticism is it’s not specific or going far enough!!

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Subscriber

    This has been in local Law for sometime, quite why this current government are making a headline about it is odd.

    Agree with the selling of wet wood, and the fertilisers close to cities… but really it’s not enough. How local councils will enforce the ban on selling wet wood is questionable, likewise if you have a stack and it’s damp who the hell is going to pop round and say “oi, you can’t use that”? erm… no-one.

    There are local laws about what type of wood burner you are allowed, if it doesn’t meet with the local council bye-laws they can ask you to remove it. It’s been Law since 2011. Obviously local councils have only recently had the power to enforce, but if you are renovating or intending to and an architect or building surveyor pops round you will need to show all the detail/data for the proposed wood burner.

    We recently renovated a property, thankfully no wood burner (I hate them) and yet the building inspector wanted to know all about the heating proposals and was delighted when we said “under floor – wet” he breathed a sign of relief.. (that’s Harrogate BC, by the way)

    drnosh
    Member

    Huh.

    Wood burners around me are called bonfires.

    One particular neighbour, git, is often setting fire to piles of garden cuttings etc. 200′ from his house, but only 50 – 60 feet from mine. Last weekend,I looked at the smoke blowing around and 10 houses would have been effected………

    Who’s gonna enforce it? Local councils, similarly to the polis, are stripped bare as it is.

    Meh.

    whitestone
    Member

    @bikebouy – he was probably delighted as there’d be less paperwork for him to do.

    Presumably all recent woodburners meet the current regs, it would be long term installations or second hand purchases that might be dodgy.

    Reminds me: need to order some more coal.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Subscriber

    I agree, but he was interested non-the-less.

    We’ve got a huge burner at the Farm, oddly that didn’t come under any Regs… I wonder why? And it was put in early last year…

    andyl
    Member

    Removed the wood burner from our plans. Shame as we have the land to coppice lots of wood to burn.

    don’t get me started on people burning garden waste. it used to be “fine” but these days people seem to have lost all notion of how to do it properly, we have too many people and too many people who don’t give a crap about others.

    Every autumn we have a guy down the road who burns wet stuff on muggy damp autumnal days and it just ends up finding it’s way into our front room and hall. The only way for it I can see is to ban garden rubbish fires for everyone. Burning stuff may well be Co2 neutral but it still gives off particulates and other nasties from the painted/creosoted wood they are often burning.

    Premier Icon vincienup
    Subscriber

    Tbf, this really shouldn’t be a news flash. A hundred odd years ago, everyone pretty well burnt solid fuel for heating and the result was horrendous air quality conditions that lead to clean air bills and ‘no burn’ zones that aren’t entirely observed these days.

    The fact that solid fuel burning is not universal these days and that a salesman called it ‘biomass’ possibly backing it up with voodoo maths doesn’t really make this any better. If anything is going to be burnt, natural gas is probably still the best option but not burning fuel for heat is always better.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    We’ve got a huge burner at the Farm, oddly that didn’t come under any Regs… I wonder why? And it was put in early last year…

    Location potentially in a factor in that. However back on my folks farm they have got shot of all the fires and wood burners for a Wood Chip system, much cleaner, much more efficient and heats 3 houses & various outbuildings for a lot less wood and emissions.

    Edukator
    Member

    Ban open fires, yup.
    Impose standards on stoves, yup.
    Define areas with high levels of pollution and ban wood, coal, lignite, peat, diesel and domestic heating oil in those areas.

    Wood has it’s part in the energy mix, it just needs to be regulated.

    wrightyson
    Member

    The laws are a load of rubbish, councils haven’t got the time or money to enforce them. The laughable thing at my house is the fact my side of the street can have open fires, the other can’t.

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Subscriber

    Surely any law will simply effect new sales through regulation/classification?

    Edukator
    Member

    There are obvious points at which rules can be enforced. At the start of every rental contract the poperty has to be certified as compliant with regard to electricity, gas and stove regulations – and asbestos, and fire risks etc. No certificate, illegal to rent out, big fines and/or confiscation of the property for non-complianace.

    And at house sale, illegal to sell a non-compliant property except to a local authority for £1 in the case of refusing to do the work.

    Premier Icon edhornby
    Subscriber

    Our climate change targets are going to be missed, but ‘the government needs to do something’ so here’s a small token so we don’t have to tackle the astronomical amount of car and airplane generated pollution

    footflaps
    Member

    To be fair, we have an approved ‘clean’ wood burner, but you can still taste smoke in the garden when it’s running (even at full whack). Not as clean as I’d expected…

    Still better than the open coal fire it replaced….

    Premier Icon edhornby
    Subscriber

    wrong thread

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    here’s a small token so we don’t have to tackle the astronomical amount of car and airplane generated pollution

    Year on year improvements on car emissions for new vehicles, scrappage schemes, emmision exclusion zones in cities, variable speed limits on Motorways being used to control car emissions, incentives for low emission and EV’s are way more than nothing. Wood burners and burning of bad material in built up areas can have a significant impact on local health issues.

    Edukator
    Member

    Wood burners and burning of bad material in built up areas

    And people moan too when there’s fly tipping and have to pay to take an old window frame to the tip.

    Make waste disposal free and you’ll find there’s less incentive to spend an hour sawing up the furniture so it can be burned in the old fire place.

    Tax buying new stuff not the dsiposal of old stuff.

    Rockape63
    Member

    Ive got a Defra Approved double sided woodburner:

    A Defra Approved stove, or to give it the correct name, a Defra Smoke Exempt Appliance, is a wood burning stove which has been tested and passed the UK Government’s Department of Environment, Farming and Rural Affairs (Defra) criteria for emission levels and the amount of smoke that it will be allowed to produce during all stages of normal operation.

    Generally, a ‘Defra Approved’ stove has been modified by the manufacturer to limit the amount that it can be ‘closed down’ or in other words, by how much it can be starved of air which creates smoky combustion. A Defra Approved stove will therefore always provide the minimum level of combustion air so that the wood burns efficiently without producing unnecessary smoke, thus ensuring that the appliance complies with the Clean Air Act. A Defra Approved wood burner will therefore allow you to burn wood legally in a UK Smoke Control Area – most of the UK’s cities and large towns.

    locum76
    Member

    Surely the cleanest, most ecological and likely the cheapest kind of heating is all electric on a green tariff?

    Edukator
    Member

    Depends what’s being burnt to produce that electricity, locum76. The day that there are no fossil fuels used in electricity generation is the day I stop using my wood burner.

    Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Subscriber

    Surely the cleanest, most ecological and likely the cheapest kind of heating is all electric on a green tariff?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Yes there are existing laws. No they don’t work. Yes cutting off supply chains, both of rubbish stoves and the worst fuels, seems wise.

    Now, what about that fuel duty escalator that’s been frozen for most of my kids’ lives…?

    Premier Icon Jamze
    Subscriber

    Very interested what’s going to happen to older/historic places in the uk, both with heating and also EV charging (another thread I know). Our place is solid flag floors, sarson stone and chalk, and reliant on oil/open fires for heat. But I know this is going to have to change over the next 10-15 years.

    footflaps
    Member

    A Defra Approved stove, or to give it the correct name, a Defra Smoke Exempt Appliance

    Still pumps out pm2.5 etc…

    Plus they’re self certify, so I suspect a lot of gaming the system to get them to pass….

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Then buy stoves made where the standards and compliance schemes are far stricter. Consumers need to stop being lazy and source the good stuff, not the minimum.

    Now, what about that fuel duty escalator that’s been frozen for most of my kids’ lives…?

    And proper emissions tests for cars, and doing away with optional Start/stop systems on cars, and, well you get the message…

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    And, in a bit more whataboutery… the government could be taking shitty diesel rolling stock out of action… so much more that urgently needs doing.

    It’s not really whataboutery, it’s more that it should be a part of an overall plan, not just green dart chucking.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Yes, I agree … just arming the comment against the normal critism.

    Premier Icon slackalice
    Subscriber

    It’s a non story dragged up to avert our full attention from something else, whatever that maybe, yes, the government spin and pr departments really do think that the British public are that thick.

    Aeroplanes. They’ll be heavy polluters I dare say, possibly more than wood stoves*, unfortunately for the planet and it’s residents national administrations have found then to be a very handy and lucrative revenue source. Why do we need so many flights so often? Why do they need to be so cheap? Supply and demand I suppose, lots of supply – lower price to meet demand, except our current demand to explore our planet and have a full English brekkie in the tropics seems insatiable.

    People need to accept that being propelled at the 35,000 feet burning Nav Gas doesn’t do the atmosphere much in the way of good in the quantities that are being spewed into it.

    Whilst mobility of labour is a good thing for the global capitalist economy and the new religion of money, not everyone who flies is commuting, I’d hope.

    While you m here… Why is it cheaper to go abroad by plane than to Scotland from London by train?

    * except maybe for the cheap shite found on eBay which are cheap for a reason but everyone who buys one thinks they are getting a deal and saving some quids over the branded stoves.

    Premier Icon dmorts
    Subscriber

    A Defra Approved stove, or to give it the correct name, a Defra Smoke Exempt Appliance

    Still pumps out pm2.5 etc…

    Exactly.

    Household solid fuel burning is top of the PM2.5 polluting list. I hope this is at least partly why the regulation has come about

    According to government figures, wood, coal and solid fuel fires in the home generate 40% of total PM2.5 – the smallest and most dangerous particulate. This is more than double the PM2.5 emissions from industrial combustion (16%) and more than three times as much as from road transport (12%).

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/11/people-burning-wet-wood-on-inefficient-stoves-poisoning-themselves

    I posted this before here

    Premier Icon tomd
    Subscriber

    I appreciate that for some they’re practical / essential but stoves have become really fashionable and popular beyond all reason. Regulations and enforcement aside, once having them becomes linked with all kind of bad stuff I think the popularity will drop off. Look at what happened to diesel cars – people’s buying behaviour changed basically overnight once there was some vague idea that they might not be the best and maybe the law would change.

    Na, interest in diesels dropped off because folks thought they were gonna get taxed out the game, most don’t give a **** about the environment.

    According to government figures, wood, coal and solid fuel fires in the home generate 40% of total PM2.5 – the smallest and most dangerous particulate. This is more than double the PM2.5 emissions from industrial combustion (16%) and more than three times as much as from road transport (12%).

    Blimey! Didnt know that.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    On a ride the other day I rode through a patch of acrid fug from someone’s wood fire and it was a pretty stark reminder of the pollution they can cause. I could really feel it in my lungs and throat, and this was a road ride so I’d been mixing with the cars for a few hours already.

    trail_rat
    Member

    You an estate agent now Molly.

    You knew it was a wood stove just from riding past.

    Acrid smoke sounds much much more likely to be coal or a derivative .

    fossy
    Member

    We are in a clean air zone, so the stoves have to be Defra approved and burn the correct fuels.

    Not that the ar$e of my bob builder neighbour cared. Was burning any old crap on it, black smoke. Went round to complain as my house stunk all day. Threatened to deck me, I laughed, and phoned the council. They were round next day, and his ‘stove’ didn’t have building regs – which he would know it needed. He was warned about what ‘wood’ he burns on it. He hasn’t been much of a problem in the year since, although there are days when I’m outside and the place stinks of badly burnt wood, but no bellowing black smoke. What possesses someone to stick a metal flue on the outside of your house that looks like an eyesore, I don’t know -fine with a proper chimney, but a stainless steel flu ?

    PS he also has a ‘dwelling’ in his back garden that does not have planning (brick build, plumbed in, and had his son living in it) – his direct neighbours complained (built in lovely breeze block) and he threatened them – ‘it’s a wendy house’. Fortunately, he is the only idiot everyone has to tolerate. he has a habit of hissing everyone off. Leaves abandoned cars on the road outside his house for months etc.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 111 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.