Base model Shimano SPD – under £20
Base model Time ATAC – about £50

Both are basically an axle, a couple of bearings and some springy bits. Why the difference in cost?

It’s dodgy knee-ist, that’s what it is. Grrr… 🙁

Economies of scale.

Basically the cheap shimano pedals are rubbish and the time pedals aren’t.
Due to a slight mix up in March I ended up having to buy some cheap shimano pedals in Spain as I appeared to have left my time pedals in London. On first impressions I thought they were good – until last sunday when I remembered why I’d stopped using shimano pedals in 1995. They don’t work in mud.
I’m still using time pedals I bought in 95/96 – I’d bet that no one can say the same about shimano pedals.

Got my last pair of Atacs from Ribble for £30-odd.

Think they might have a sale on again now actually.

Economies of scale

Hmm, it’s not like the Time one’s are handcrafted by French artisans…

One a related note, has anyone changed the bearings in a Time pedal? My set have gone a bit wobbly, and it seems a waste/expensive to ditch the whole pedal for the want of a few pence worth of bearings.

One a related note, has anyone changed the bearings in a Time pedal? My set have gone a bit wobbly, and it seems a waste/expensive to ditch the whole pedal for the want of a few pence worth of bearings.

not recently, it was remove pedal from bike, remove circlip, pull axle out, remove second circlip, hit bearing off with hammer. gently push new bearing on, replace circlip, insert axle, insert second circlip. reattach to bike. took 5-10mins to do.

Because time pedals are better, the free float saves your knees, and they work in ice and mud.

If something works better, or is better you can charge more…. Haircuts range in price massively but it’s still 30 minutes and some scissors.

Haircuts range in price massively but it’s still 30 minutes and some scissors.

I don’t think either of us are in a position to comment about how much people spend on their hair 😉

If something works better, or is better you can charge more…. Haircuts range in price massively but it’s still 30 minutes and some scissors.

Agree, this seems to be a strategy used by Crank Bros as well.

Hmmm… the mud and snow in yorkshire must be different* to elsewhere. They seem to work absolutely fine here.

*better, naturally.

Yeah good point…. About a tenner every couple of years for me.

Would cakes be a better example?

Shimano also don’t have a great degree of control of their distribution. The market is constantly flooded with grey imports, stock intended for complete bikes, but being sold at massive discount in a poly bag and no box.

Other brands have more control over where their products end up, and at what price they sell for.

They don’t work in mud.

That’s the one thing I’m always impressed with about SPD’s. Never a problem for me, and I know mud.

shimano SPD’s for cyclocross… yup they work in mud.

Because time pedals are better, the free float saves your knees,

As good as time pedals are, they certainly aren’t free float. They have a large amount of float, but it is spring centering.

One a related note, has anyone changed the bearings in a Time pedal? My set have gone a bit wobbly, and it seems a waste/expensive to ditch the whole pedal for the want of a few pence worth of bearings.

I’ve done a few, I usually change the bearing and the bush

They have a large amount of float, but it is spring centering.

No it isn’t, is it? Maybe at the very extremes, when you’re starting to push the bars apart (i.e. just before it releases), but not in the ‘main’ bit of the cleat/shoe movement

I’ve done a few, I usually change the bearing and the bush

Do you know where I can get replacements?

If something works better, or is better you can charge more…. Haircuts range in price massively but it’s still 30 minutes and some scissors.
Agree, this seems to be a strategy used by Crank Bros as well.

Ahh if Crank Bros did haircuts: they would be the most amazing best looking haircuts in the world. Until 2 weeks later when all you hair fell out.

The really basic Shimano SPD’s that don’t have the open design really are shite in muddy conditions but beyond this they are all pretty good.

Hmm, it’s not like the Time one’s are handcrafted by French artisans…

No, but they still don’t make as many. NOWHERE NEAR as many. Maybe not even 5% as many. And Shimano are a MASSIVE company with the clout to make lots of things very cheaply.
So it’s economies of scale, innit?

I have not used SPDs for over ten years, maybe 15, so maybe they are better in mud than they used to be. I remember being frozen into a pedal once, and also frozen out of a pedal.

The really basic Shimano SPD’s that don’t have the open design really are shite in muddy conditions but beyond this they are all pretty good.

Really? I think you’re overstating the problem slightly. I’ve had M520s for the past 5 years or so and can think of maybe one or two occasions where I’ve struggled to clip in due to mud or snow. With Time ATACs those may well not have happened but for the 10 seconds I’m not sure I’d go as far as calling them “shite”.

It’s quite simple Times are just better designed all round therefore cost more 🙂 Nothing really wrong with SPD’s if they’re what floats ya boat. I just don’t like the lack of float at all.

I originally changed from SPD to Time as I found them more comfortable with the float, and cleared better in mud and snow. I’ve got an old (10+ year) set which are still very good and a newer (~6 year) Atac XS which seem lower quality. I’ve replaced the axle bushings on the XS, and they’re due again now; it’s not hard, but it took ages for Chicken to supply the parts via LBS, and at relatively high cost.

It looks like the XS bars and the pins which hold these into pedal body also need changing now, so contemplating new Atacs or try SPDs again. Anyone completely overhauled these or have comments on quality of the latest models?

Anyone completely overhauled these or have comments on quality of the latest models?

Based on a sample size of 1 if each I’ve found the Roc Atac wear better than the Atac XS.

I don’t know if it is still possible but i basically built a mark one ATAC from spares, replaced bearings, washers, bars, covers. All easily done with a hammer and a circlip spanner. Never had to touch the mark two’s i have currently.

Really? I think you’re overstating the problem slightly. I’ve had M520s for the past 5 years or so and can think of maybe one or two occasions where I’ve struggled to clip in due to mud or snow. With Time ATACs those may well not have happened but for the 10 seconds I’m not sure I’d go as far as calling them “shite”.

I guess it depends whether you bothered to consider the phrases “really basic” and “open design”

Here are some pretty pictures to help you out:

Shite: (not open design – really basic)

Pretty good: (open design – still basic but decent pedals)

Do you know where I can get replacements?

Scribbled in my [very secret] workshop note book…..
The bearings are 696ZZ and should be available at any bearing supplier
The bushes are 10mm x14mm x16mm and appear to be available here

Smashing, cheers 🙂

I’ve just stopped using a pair of cheap Shimano pedals that I got nine or ten years ago. They’ve been replaced with another pair of Shimano pedals. There are lighter and nicer looking pedals but for reliability and value for money I don’t think much can beat Shimano.

I think my first upgrade on my M2 Stumpjumper, so maybe 2000 i.e. 12 years ago, was a pair of 959 SPDs. Still going like clockwork..

so much so that when I was in the market for another pair of SPDs, rather than buy 540s for 35/40 quid, bought a nearly new pair of 959s again..

French food is better and more expensive than Japanese food, hence R&D cost are Higher. Plus it’s marketing, from my experience in the UK, anything with the bleu, blanc , rouge label on it is overprice factomundo 😉

I’ve had Time Atac pedals clog jam packed with snow before now making it impossible to clip in. Never any problems with Shimano.

Plus the cleats on Shimano seem to be harder wearing.

As has been mentioned, cost is all down to economy of scale.

Regarding “better” – use whichever you get on with best. Personally SPDs do awful things to my dodgy knees, so have been running ATACs for years.

I had a very old plastic set that refused to die and only went when the bike they were attached to was stolen. The more recent metal ones seemed a bit lower quality.

Currently running Roc ATACs which seem pretty good. Haven’t worn them out or managed to break them yet, despite many heavy pedal strikes on rocks.

Time cleats do need replacing every 12-18 months though, as they’re made of relatively soft brass. Not sure why this is, other than to provide a lucrative spares market for Time.

Must be the rare lucky crank brothers customer because mine out perform shimano IBM every way except purchase price. The last linger work better in the wet the mud in snow and most other places. When the bearings fail they are replaced unlike the new xtr. Happy to pay more for something that works fir longer. Purchase cost is not lifetime cost.

Time cleats do need replacing every 12-18 months though, as they’re made of relatively soft brass. Not sure why this is, other than to provide a lucrative spares market for Time.

Just for standard STW contradiction, I have never changed a pair of Time cleats. I threw a pair of shoes away last year that had the original 8 or 9 year old cleats still attached.

Simple the cleat wears not the pedal

As good as time pedals are, they certainly aren’t free float. They have a large amount of float, but it is spring centering.

you can of course on ATAC move you foot laterally in line with the axle a little + rotate

SPD only allows rotate that said not a meag difference in use i have a mixture of atac on SPD on a few bikes

Furry muff. Cleat wear is probably affected by shoe design too.
I’m currently using Time shoes and the cleats do seem to be lasting longer, presumably because they’re less exposed when walking?

Surely you’re comparing apples and oranges. Bentleys entry level car costs more than Fords entry level car for example. Just because it’s a companies entry level doesn’t mean it should be “basic”, does it?