Like I said, in my town we now have 21 seat plus standing room level 4 autonomous buses picking up and dropping off passengers

They still have a driver on board them?

They still have a driver on board them?

Yes. As far as I know, the idea in the future is to have the driver monitor remotely and then monitor more than one bus at a time.

Let me guess, this proves the entire enterprise is pointless and a failure?

An example – the entire dashboard screen display in a relatively, ie less than two year old, Mercedes A-Class failing completely while being driven out of the workshop after minor bodywork repairs. The thought of that happening on a motorway in the dark, in poor weather really makes me feel queasy.

How would a driver cope in that situation? Given that many are incompetent already.

Its often a false equivalence when we consider the possible risks of autonomous vehicles. In the above scenario the car may come to a safe stop and call the emergency services etc. What would a panicking driver do? Cars kill 5 a day on our roads and injure hundreds of thousands a year.

Let me guess, this proves the entire enterprise is pointless and a failure?

You guess wrongly. I’m not against automation, I just don’t think that a fully automated/no ownership model is the future. I think it’ll be electric cars that aren’t massively different in appearance then now that will mostly be owned and will have limited automation (m-ways and trunk roads) but will be driven by humans everywhere else.  I think that buses that go the same places at the same speed every day is a very good use of automation – like trains, but I don’t think that’s a model for all transport.

I like @BruceWee’s internet analogy. On a personal level, I’m excited about the possibility of sleeping in automated vehicles as they transport me overnight.

I think that buses that go the same places at the same speed every day is a very good use of automation

Most drivers also go at the same speed to the same place every day.

Personally, I don’t think that we can really continue consuming at the same rate we are at the moment for the planet’s sake. Maybe you’re right and the world will continue as it always has except now engines will be electric rather than ICE but if that’s the case I don’t think the planet will thank us.

Most drivers also go at the same speed to the same place every day.

Yep, and there’s often (not always) a cheaper, less polluting and equally convenient transport alternative now, and yet people don’t use it. Often for a variety of reasons that don’t always make much sense, and probably bottom of the list is that they’re a mindless drone who can’t think for themselves and always does the easy thing. People are used to having their own transport. I can’t see a future that doesn’t involve some measure of personal autonomy.

I think the internet analogy is an interesting one though. Given the intrusion of privacy issues that are now being thrown up by it, how will the self drive lobby ensure that big brother’s (google and apple and the like) not watching them in their cars as well? who’s that data going to be sold to? And who’s going to have access to it? I can’t imagine a system that knows where every car is at all times wouldn’t see some court challenges.

how will the self drive lobby ensure that big brother’s (google and apple and the like) not watching them in their cars as well? who’s that data going to be sold to? And who’s going to have access to it? I can’t imagine a system that knows where every car is at all times wouldn’t see some court challenges.

Well the “Self Drive Lobby” is probably made up of many of the same organisations and people that have already contributed to the current Personal data concerns. Google, Apple and Co. have a stake in SDVs and can already track people pretty accurately, probably work out what modes of transport they are habitually using. Once they know you are enough of a high roller to afford an SDV (or not) I’m sure they’ll Taylor their advertising to you and adjust the companies they sell your personal data to accordingly…

“Spys built into your car” have long been discussed, but they already exist and who have been the biggest fans/users of such technologies already? Insurance companies, using it as a way to monitor and hopefully influence driver’s behaviour positively while dangling the potential carrot of reduced premiums. I don’t know how this would work for SDVs that you’re not apparently not going to be driving, do you just give the car permission to share telemetric data with your insurance Co, or any prospective insurer to demonstrate you’re not taking over and booting it over the speed limit on the way to work every day?

Or do you just opt out of owning a car? Even then every time you use an app to summon an SDV, they’ll know and be able to gather data from that activity…

Is the convenience worth knowing they’re big-brothering you with the technologies you’ve come to rely on? SDV would just be another tool for that, but probably not all that controversial considering the spy potentially in your pocket or sat listening in your kitchen…

Teslas stopping of their own accord on the freeway:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/03/tesla-cars-autopilot-stopped-highways-without-cause

Cities seem a great place for them. Won’t worry me, I avoid any city where I can’t park free or I have to use a P&R. In prinicple though I like the idea but I see several big problems.
I can’t see it working (well enough) in rural areas and more importantly , why bother?
What many people forget is that most people don’t give a toss and like it or not that is their right.