I’ll put my cards on the table – I’m not a big fan of car-culture in general. I understand they are useful in certain situations but to me they just seem to be used most often where they would (ideally) be least needed, and there are far, far too many of them.

That said we do own a car (principally for Mrs P who has a disability) – although it sits on the driveway 99% of the time. Yet when I am driving I’m fairy certain want the car to drive me instead? No, I don’t think I would. A much, much better multi-modal transport infrastructure and way less cars on the road – is what I’d prefer. I realise those wishes are somewhat separate to the desirability/urgency(?) of self-driving vehicles.

I’m interested in who and what is driving (!) the push for automation? Is it you/us/the public? Is it ever? As a cycle-commuter it could possibly be welcomed on those pesky roads where you’re most often inches from becoming road-kill. But I’d much prefer some infrastructure that meant I didn’t have to share busy roads with either mad people or robots.

Is increased automation our final boss or our final freedom?

In general yes I’d like driverless cars.

A much, much better multi-modal transport infrastructure and way less cars on the road – is what I’d prefer.

They aren’t exclusive. They are in fact orthogonal ideas. One is a social and government led project using existing tech, and requires planning and societal additude change; the other is purely automotive technology.

In fact they are highly complimentary. The multi modal transport scenario is made easier by driverless cars. For example, your car can drop you off at the station then take itself home instead of needing expensive parking space at the station along with thousands of others. It could then go and collect someone else in your family before collecting you in the evening. Etc etc. Of course you can do this with taxis but it’s far less convenient.

I think cars should be ‘owned’ in the same way I ‘own’ a plane…
Call for it when I need it.

An automated self driving car could meet me WHEN I need it. Then drive off to the next person who needs it.
Going away with the family – call for a van.
Me and the missus – sporty drop top…

DrP

Yes please, it can’t happen soon enough for me. A pool of regularly cleaned and maintained vehicles that you can just order with your phone or whatever, then when it’s done with you it buggers off to its next booking or back to the depot for a recharge if it needed to would be great. There’d be no need to actually own a car.

Was thinking about this the other day

my youngest have just turned 6, wonder if theyll even have to take a driving test!

personally, I cant wait until long distance car journeys just involve me going for a doze or reading a book for a few hours!

Me and the missus – sporty drop top…

Whats the point in sporty if you’re not driving it?

I’m happy for driverless cars if they’re not stupidly expensive ot buy or hire along with the reformed public transport systems that will need to go along with it, and we can also get rid of idiot drivers and pollution. I just can’t see it happening in my lifetime and i’m only 46.

What DrP said. I really hope it happens, but suspect it’ll be private ownership of too many cars.

 A much, much better multi-modal transport infrastructure and way less cars on the road – is what I’d prefer

There’s no getting away from the fact that much of modern life is arranged as it is; because personalised transport allows people to live like they do, they’re used to doing it, and largely, I think, would be resistant to change, I don’t mind travelling by train, but it’s mostly a crap experience, and won’t always go to where I want or at the time I want or whatever. Like you my car sits on the drive for a large percentage of it’s time, but when we do use it, it’s fantastically convenient, useful, practical, cheap, private (I think lots of folks underestimate how important that is) and generally fast.

Remove the pollution from the equation, and I think most folks would go on driving.

I’d be fine with driving to a motorway or long dual carriage way, and have the care take over. I could see that being a useful and easy (er) thing to accomplish that most folks would be OK with.

Yes please.
As long as they are well tested 😉

An automated self driving car could meet me WHEN I need it. Then drive off to the next person who needs it.
Going away with the family – call for a van.
Me and the missus – sporty drop top…

Which again raises the question of who is actually pushing for these automated cars?

And what does it spell for the (as of now) extortionate and unimpressive rail services in countries such as the UK?

Judging by the current crop of driverless vehicles then no. Outside of extremely regulated private spaces the reliable use of driverless cars is still 10-15 years away. I’m not keen to share roads with something programmed by an idiot who’s not interested in cyclists or pedestrians.

Driverless cars already outperform humans in terms of fatalities. Just thought I’d throw that one out there.

But yes – I want fully driverless cars. No steering wheel.

I want a round bubble-car, with a table in the middle so we can throw our bikes on the back, set it to “Alps” and then sit about and play card games and get wasted (it’ll have a fully-stocked bar, of course). When we’re knackered the table will fold into the floor, the seats will fold up in the middle, the glass will become opaque and the whole car will become a big bed.

Then we’ll wake up in France, get the bikes out and play.

I can think of a few problems with shared cars.

Limited choice. Specific needs like dog cage, roof rack, large estate format, etc may well not be catered for.

Allergies. Our car carries two dogs with associated blankets, water bowls etc. Will everyone want to use a car a couple of large wet dogs have used for the previous journey.

Litter/dirt/general crap. Reality is that a perecentage of the population have no respect for shared property. Expect the car to turn uo with McDonalds cartons and coffee cups littered about.

Peak Demand. Congestion won’t be eased if the same number of people are trying to get somewhere for 9am. Potentially it could get worse if autocars are doing there and back trips so the whole family is using the car rather than some using alt walk/cycle/bus methods.

Convenience. It will never be as instant as having a car sitting outside the house 24/7.

How will shared cars work for weekends away in the remote bits of the highlands. Hired for whole time? Called for from a hour’s journey away?

Cost? Who knows. Running costs per mile would be much the same. Depreciation and some fixed costs would be shared and so a saving. For me a couple of hundred quid a month extra to have my own car is worth it.

If I lived in a congested urban area with no parking then I would be interested. But then maybe bus/train/bike/taxi are better.

Currently – I’m out.

I like the idea of just being able to summon a suitable vehicle that drives itself and is clean and ready to go.

BUT…

Wouldn’t it be MUCH easier to achieve that with a more advanced taxi service?

Seems the only blocker for that is having to talk to a taxi driver.

Yeah I think they have place hopefully they may increase car safety.

my youngest have just turned 6, wonder if theyll even have to take a driving test!

Pretty sure that they will. Unless in 11 year they remove all car that require a driver off the roads and driverless are 100% driverless.

Perhaps a more realistic use case is that private ownership continues, but you reduce parking issues because your car can drop you outside your destination then go park itself in a windowless inhuman multi-storey until you summon it for the return trip.

yep, shared cars is definitely a no-no. Who wants to summon a car that someone’s just 💩 in? 🤣

Autonomous privately owned cars though (only – no human-controlled cars at all) – yes! When they’re safe enough, obvs. Despite those who doubt the tech, there inevitably will come a time when they’re safer and will result in less accidents than what we have now.

Driverless very light rail is a really interesting proposal that could week be on the streets within 3-5 years. Autonomous VLR battery powered vehicles only have to work about not running into stuff as opposed to directional changes and other things following irrational paths.
Rail is an ideal transportation system to automate, as long as there’s a consistent and robust last mile system.

What DrP said, this would make me happy. Though that does sound much like a taxi now and i still use my own vehicles.

Driver a van but as little as possible, mixture of bikes/train mostly.

I live on a one-way street, and going by the amount of people who drive the wrong way down it (at double the speed limit so they can hopefully be out the other end before anyone else comes onto the road, obvs) I think self-driving cars can’t come soon enough.

Allergies. Our car carries two dogs with associated blankets, water bowls etc. Will everyone want to use a car a couple of large wet dogs have used for the previous journey.

Litter/dirt/general crap. Reality is that a perecentage of the population have no respect for shared property. Expect the car to turn uo with McDonalds cartons and coffee cups littered about.

Cars that smell of mcdonalds = bad/selfish, cars that smell of wet dog = just an intractable problem with shared cars? Got it 😉

Peak Demand. Congestion won’t be eased if the same number of people are trying to get somewhere for 9am. Potentially it could get worse if autocars are doing there and back trips

I do think this is a potential issue. At moment, 000’s of people drive to work and park up. If they all used self-driving cars, those cars would then potentially also make a return journey into town to do other jobs. It could make rush hour a lot worse!

I’ve already been in a driverless around an industrial estate and shopping area, and more of that please. Replacing taxis – yes please.

I’ve done enough long drives to like the idea of driverless for that too. I drove some long tunnels in a car with 1/2 decent autopilot, and it did a very good job, and better than most people i.m.e.

Isaac Asimov “Sally”

my youngest have just turned 6, wonder if theyll even have to take a driving test!

Pretty sure that they will. Unless in 11 year they remove all car that require a driver off the roads and driverless are 100% driverless

.

I couldn’t afford to learn to drive until I was 33. If those 6 year olds are as financially challenged as I was, maybe they won’t need to!

@irc so shared cars are a non- starter. Which just reinforces my prediction of more and more individual cars for most all journeys (albeit also wiping out employment opportunities for drivers)

Also less reasons to use more environmentally sustainable options such as electric rail transit/mass transit systems?

Car culture in this country has a hell of a long way to go before people will accept the book an autonomous vehicle situation. People just love their fancy status symbols too much. I mean look how car leasing has taken off! I’ve got a colleague – works from home 3 days a week, only ever drives 5-10miles to his mum’s and back and on the few trips into the office actually moans about using petrol! The rest of the time he’s leasing a car (£350 a month?) to sit outside his flat.
Totally baffles me. And I’m sure there are 100s of thousands of households doing the same.
Yes, I’d like automated vehicles. I drove a new Yaris with lane control and adaptive cruise and it was the most relaxing drive I’ve ever had.. But, as a cyclist, I can bet I’d be a lot less irritated by selfish ignorant **** if the cars were making the decisions!

I couldn’t afford to learn to drive until I was 33. If those 6 year olds are as financially challenged as I was, maybe they won’t need to!

Yes there’s always the other extreme. Well done.

But, as a cyclist, I can bet I’d be a lot less irritated by selfish ignorant **** if the cars were making the decisions!

Possibly. Would some enterprising coder develop a Gammon 2.0 or B3LL3ND hack/patch for them though?

*want*

It always amuses me when people claim cars are cheap. they are not. they cost thousands per year with the huge subsidies they get. Put that subsidy into public transport instead and see how cheap public transport becomes. I can do and regularly do a 100+mile return trip by train for £14. A car would be £40+ total cost not additional cost. Even the additional cost would be more than the train

Yes please, they are likely to make better driving decisions than the worst third of drivers, and significantly cut congestion by actually driving to the conditions and re-routing in response to issues ahead.

Congestion won’t be eased if the same number of people are trying to get somewhere for 9am.

it would though, purely because autonomous cars wouldn’t drive stupidly/selfishly as some drivers do e.g. blocking junctions/roundabouts, parking where they shouldn’t & sticking the hazards on, purposefully choosing the wrong lane & cutting people up and/or the maddening cycle of accelerate too much/brake which then has the massive knock-on effect on all the cars behind, etc etc. Flow would be hugely improved if all the cars were driving sensibly & in sync and obeying all traffic laws!

Self driving, personally owned vehicles will come first, possibly with some form of connected awareness, rather than all-on-board sensing and computation. The rich will pay for this development whether they want it or not. Next will come fleet ownership and centralised management enabling properly humanless driving – hire cars. Next will be fully autonomous, fully connected, hire on demand for everyday use for those that want it. Think second cars, light usage, holiday usage, etc. I don’t think there’s any chance that we’ll move to a point beyond private ownership/lease unless (maybe) there are tiered/tailored services to cater to each segment of society. Even then – I think there’s too much profit in the selling of cars to individuals for a premium to see this one going away soon.

Automonous vehicles will kill local and regional rail services along with all short haul (less than 600km) air travel that doesn’t go over water as it’s both door-to-door and should be equally as fast once it’s all connected.

I’d love one, mostly so I don’t have to drive myself home after a nightshift.

To be fair I’d also happily get on a train if it were clean, had enough seats and didn’t mean I had to leave over an hour earlier to get there. It would also cost over £100/month more to get us both to work, on the plus side I’d end up fitter as I’d have to walk out ride 4 miles a day as well.

I don’t know if driverless cars are the answer, improving public transport so it actually works properly would probably be a better solution.

I can do and regularly do a 100+mile return trip by train for £14.

Please tell how? I wanted to go to a gig in Bristol last week (which is only 60 miles away) and it was something like £40 for return ticket and no options to return before 6am next day – so we had to drive.

Although (being Brizzle?) I did have a nice surprise leaving the venue and seeing about 100 *notcars* parked outside. That night put the biggest smile on my face I’ve had for ages.

But to get this thread on track again – who/which body/s are pushing for fully automated cars? And with what (if any) input from the population?

I don’t know if driverless cars are the answer, improving public transport so it actually works properly would probably be a better solution.

I have the feeling that increased focus on car-culture/revenue (if that is possible) will only decrease investment in public transport.

Revenue from auto sales worldwide 2020-2030
It is projected that the global automotive industry will generate about 3.8 trillion U.S. dollars from auto sales by 2030. This market is anticipated to increase most significantly between 2025 and 2030.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103008/global-auto-sales-revenue/

Madness.

Don’t worry. This is the future of motoring.

I can do and regularly do a 100+mile return trip by train for £14. A car would be £40+ total cost not additional cost.

If course it does depend on how convenient your public transport is. If I visit my brother it’s about 1.5 hours by car. Public transport involves 3 buses, 2 trains and a fair bit of walking and waiting around, say 3.5 hours minimum. The costs are similar.

Yes please, it can’t happen soon enough for me. A pool of regularly cleaned and maintained vehicles that you can just order with your phone or whatever, then when it’s done with you it buggers off to its next booking or back to the depot for a recharge if it needed to would be great. There’d be no need to actually own a car.

We already have those, we call them taxis.

 I can do and regularly do a 100+mile return trip by train for £14

which is great if it’s convenient. Often it’s not.

I looked at getting a train home from Leicester to Leeds last week, only needed one way as I could get a lift down there with someone already going that way, £50. I ended up driving my van both ways instead as it only cost me about £25 in fuel.

Public transport NEEDS sorting out to change the car culture first, then we can think about other ways of getting about.

Edit: saying that, we got the train up to Headingley for the cricket yesterday, 2 adults and 2 kids, train 1 stop into Leeds then out to Headingley £8.60 return with a family and friends rail card. So it can be good.

But yes – I want fully driverless cars. No steering wheel.

I want a round bubble-car, with a table in the middle so we can throw our bikes on the back, set it to “Alps” and then sit about and play card games and get wasted (it’ll have a fully-stocked bar, of course). When we’re knackered the table will fold into the floor, the seats will fold up in the middle, the glass will become opaque and the whole car will become a big bed.

Then we’ll wake up in France, get the bikes out and play.

We already have those, we call them trains.