That is a well known example of the logical fallacy of a loaded question and is googleable. I am not suggesting you do this and you have completely misunderstood my point  ;it has been used multiple times on here as the standard example.

I think we both might need to apologise

I apologise for you reading that as me actually meaning that. It was not my intention and  I do not think you would or have ever beat your wife.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html

So we have fabricated evidence and sent it to our Nato allies, Zokes?

Apology accepted John, and sorry for calling you a four asterisk in response. Classic example of nuance lost in text. Sorry about that.

Tom: yes, fabrication of evidence. Boris made up the fact that he had scientific proof of the source of the toxin. This is something we discussed at length two weeks ago. The FO has been handily deleting tweets to emphasise this point further.

I think BoJo was muddled and ambiguous in his language, as is his wont, rather than lying outright. He has certainly played into the Russians’ hands though; a little more confusion, discord and division!

Re the FO’s tweets, possibly a bit of institutional confusion there too, ie person running the social media believing Porton had confirmed the source. There’s not many scientifically trained folk in our institutions, more’s the pity!

And I would be somewhat surprised that we provided information to our allies via Twitter and German TV

Precisely Mefty, as has been stated, classified intel has been shared with our NATO partners. Junkyard is right in saying that the Ruesians are doing a Ninfan.

Airtragic wrote:

“I think BoJo was muddled and ambiguous in his language”

Not even slightly. Here’s the transcript, there’s no ambiguity at all and no room for confusion.

“you argue that the source of this nerve agent, Novichok, is Russia. How did you manage to find it out so quickly? Does Britain possess samples of it?

“Let me be clear with you … When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory,”

“So they have the samples?”

“They do. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt,”

But when you listen to it, it’s his normal rambling chat. It’s much less clear than it looks there. I think it’s plausible that he was conflating the scientist confirming the identity of the nerve agent with the supporting evidence of its origin.

BloHard supporter then are you..

Why, do I have to leave if I am? As it happens I’ve got no time for the man. But that’s how I see what has happened here.

Leave if you like, free country.

Apology accepted John, and sorry for calling you a four asterisk in response. Classic example of nuance lost in text. Sorry about that.

No worries I understand your reaction given what you thought I had called you

I can see that he was ‘mistaken’ and overspoke the evidence he had to hand at the time. Or at least maybe he also knew the secret intelligence evidence that I’m pretty sure also exists but we obvs can’t be told about and conflated that with the scientific evidence.

However – on matters like this misspeaks and confusion are not really acceptable. We see it with Trump unable to follow the script, we see it here with Boris regularly going off course and then backtracking, it just isn’t good enough from the people we ‘elected’ to run these matters for us.

And yes, I know the Whitehall mandarins / White House special advisors run it really, they too must be in despair every time their bosses fail to follow a simple instruction.

Leave if you like, free country.

Not until after Brexit.

“I think it’s plausible that he was conflating the scientist confirming the identity of the nerve agent with the supporting evidence of its origin.”

How? He was asked “How did you find out the source of the nerve agent was Russia so quickly” and responded “Porton Down told me so”. There’s no ambiguity at all and no room for confusion. Just because he had some trouble reaching the end of the sentence, it doesn’t change the setup or the response.

Theotherjonv put it better than me. I hear it as [after being interrupted with a question specifically about the samples] “Are you sure [it’s Novichok] ?” [conflates with evidence from other sources] “and he said there’s no doubt”.

Why didn’t they (whoever they maybe) just shoot or simply run the ex-spook over with a car, hit and run.

Would have saved them with this diplomatic gas out.

I wonder what this evidence that Corbyn hasn’t seen is?  The Tories game playing over this is pretty **** despicable.  I wish there were some grown-ups in charge or at least some in the media who would call them out over it.  I despair at politics at the moment.

Why didn’t they (whoever they maybe) just shoot or simply run the ex-spook over with a car, hit and run.

the russian security services an the state  want all traitors to know they will get you. How any do they need to kill for you to realise this ?

No comments on the alleged phone call? What is going on with that?

Not Sarcasm:

What phone call are you hinting at ? I have not heard anything

Genuinely not  sarcasm

Yulia apparently called her Cousin in Russia, There’s a published transcript of it on the net somewhere.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2018/apr/05/russian-tv-broadcasts-call-from-yulia-skripal-video

everyone is fine, according to the phonecall she made to her cousin, who happened to be recording it 😉

without getting too tinfoil hat, is it not surprising that yulia has recovered from a nerve agent attack, I was under the impression that effects would be much more serious

& the police killed their guinea pigs & cat!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/06/sergei-skripal-cat-guinea-pigs-die-police-sealed-house-salisbury-spy

without getting too tinfoil hat, is it not surprising that yulia has recovered from a nerve agent attack, I was under the impression that effects would be much more serious

It’s Easter. Miracles happen.

But when you listen to it, it’s his normal rambling chat. It’s much less clear than it looks there. I think it’s plausible that he was conflating the scientist confirming the identity of the nerve agent with the supporting evidence of its origin.

This is such a pathetic argument, and yet another example of how normal standards apparently don’t apply to Boris.

He lied – stop making excuses. He said a thing he knew wasn’t true, in order to support the argument he was trying to make. Where I come from that’s called lying.

“They do. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt,”

Which part of this is in any way true?

Kimbers, dependa on the dose she got doesn’t it? Also, it’s entirely plausible that either porton down have classified treatments or the hospital tried something new.

Its pretty hard to tellwith Boris in the actual clip and it reads much worse than it sounds – he is a liar and he lying there to be clear- but he does also appear to be having one of this fumbling bumbling stuttery interviews he does from time to time ;his  mouth is engaged whilst his brain is thinking about  women he wants to be unfaithful with and what  race or region to insult next

The problem is he has set the bar so low you can actually make a case for him inadvertently speaking out his arse. Either way he is unfit to serve in any office never mind high office as  diplomat.

Junkyard +1.

This is such a pathetic argument, and yet another example of how normal standards apparently don’t apply to Boris.

I’d apply the same standards to anyone.  No fan of BoJo.

without getting too tinfoil hat, is it not surprising that yulia has recovered from a nerve agent attack, I was under the impression that effects would be much more serious

AIUI if you don’t die of asphyxiation at the time, you metabolise it out and regenerate your atropine (I think) over time.

I’d apply the same standards to anyone.  No fan of BoJo.

I really don’t believe you. You don’t have to be a fan to buy into this BS ‘oh it’s just Boris being Boris, haha’ narrative. When the reality is he will just say anything he thinks will serve his cause at any given moment. It’s not funny or acceptable, and this is how we end up with people like Trump being president.

I’m not fan of BoJo, at best he’s an embarrassment and shouldn’t be in any position of power. However I also think this is more a stupid over-statement of a link as being proof rather than a deliberate falsification. PD confirms it’s Novichok and they or MI6 likely brief him it was developed under a Soviet-era programme and was only known to have been produced in what was at the time a Soviet territory and anything stockpiled would almost certainly have been returned to Mother Russia.

So bumbling Boris is hearing is a very specialist nerve agent only known to have been developed by Russia and mistakenly phrases it as PD confirms this instance of the agent originated in Russia.

As has been said, given the importance of getting everything right on this even that’s not an excusable mistake to make and he should be fired but to try and make it into some deliberate conspiracy and cast increasing doubt on whether Russia was responsible I think is a mistake.

As to why Russia would use such a specialist nerve agent – well it has parallels with them using Polonium that could be traced to a Russian reactor. They want people to know it was them (to send a message to anyone that crosses the state) without having to admit it and risk facing more severe international retaliation. Unfortunately BoJo being incompetent is just making it easier for them to play their game.

+1 grum

Well, according to R4 Today, which is the closest thing we have to Fox and Friends in this country, it was “clumsy language” by Bozo, which was followed by a “Labour claim” that he had misled the public.

So – we aren’t so far from Trump-land after all.

That’s actually deeply disturbing, DrJ

In other news, the cat might be toast, but it looks like Skripal is recovering rapidly: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/06/sergei-skripal-no-longer-in-critical-condition-and-improving-rapidly?CMP=fb_gu

I guess we can let Russia have its diplomats back now, unless the RSPCA now have international sanctioning powers…

Meanwhile, up the river in Amesbury…

http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16333464.amesbury-incident-police-confirm-novichok-exposure/

As ever, the Journal should be your source for news on this.

Wow…… what is happening in this country. Were they deliberately poisoned, did they come across some reminant from before or are they involed somehow.

Any chemist know how easy it is to make?

And to think, our brave and noble future monarch, who’ll soon be head of state for several of His Majesties Governments the world over was in Salisbury recently!

Democracy in PERIL!!

Shut down the world cup, fly our boys home n bomb Putin and his cronies back to the Tzar age!!

We can’t tolerate the indiscriminate killing of cats and guinea pigs!!!

Wow…… what is happening in this country. Were they deliberately poisoned, did they come across some reminant from before or are they involed somehow.

Any chemist know how easy it is to make?

They are all organophosphorus compounds that at first glance look terrifyingly simple to make, just in terms of the reagents and rudimentary transformations involved. Like a one-armed man with access to a bathtub could be brewing up kilos of the stuff. This is unlikely to occur, fortunately, as the virulent toxicity of the final product (plus stability issues in a lot of cases) makes it very difficult to purify and handle, meaning chemistry expertise and equipment is needed. So it’s in the realm of the state, rather than terrorist, production of chemical weapons [the sarin attack in Japan 20 years ago I guess tests this statement, but that was a singular example of craziness – religious cult leader built a 30 million dollar lab to produce the substance].

The novichoks AFAIK are mixtures of two chemicals (binaries) to solve the problem of handling the nerve agent. One part will be an organophosphorus precursor of much reduced toxicity, that could be claimed to have legitimate use (e.g. as a pesticide) and the other part will be something common and innocuous like an amine or a nitrile, mix them together and you get the weapon on demand.

It’s depressing stuff, tbh, and I hope the Amesbury couple pull through. One for jivehoneyjive – At least they didn’t have to send the samples far for analysis – Porton Down (where VX and many more nerve agents were invented) is only 3 miles away…

Meanwhile, in Swindon, GWH is on lock down. Copper with possible symptoms. Has apparently been transferred to Salisbury.