What Full Suspension bike for a seasoned Hardtail rider?

I will try to avoid asking a question too open to make any sense:
– I’ve been riding hardtails for years on end and love them
– I fancy having a 2nd proper bike
– going for a 29er hardtail in addition to my 26er hardtail seems like getting not enough difference to make it worthwhile, I would probably end up using one of them the whole time and neglecting the other
– so I’m willing to take the plunge and invest into a full suspension bike
– but I’m worried that I won’t like it (energy sapping, lack of feedback, heavy, complicated, the usual)
– I am probably your average STW trail biker with a 100mm Cotic Soul and won’t do much different things with the FS bike I guess
– then again – and that’s part of the question – I might change my preferred riding style when I have a different bike
– I sat on a Cotic Rocket today, it felt plush like a sofa, riding position like a 30s motorbike (wide, long, low) and I had mixed feelings about it a) whoah that’s really different b) arrgh, that might be too different

Question 1: Which bike would you recommend to me? short-travel, long-travel, slack or CC
I know, there are myriads of FS bikes out there, but just give it a go and share your exeperience

Question 2: did you change from Hardtail to FS and what did it do for you? Would you do it again? Did it change your riding style? A lot?

Curious I am. And yes, in the end only going for a test ride will do. But I’d like to narrow things down before next weekend.

Cheers!

hock

P.S.: ahh, forgot to add 2-3 things
– longer travel on Cotic Soul than 100mm made it feel to me like a wheel-barrow (slow steering somewhere to far in front of me)
– my bikes need to be agile, I want to flic-flac them through the twisties even if they are FS
– I kind of like: 1) the Rocket because it’s a Cotic 😉 2) Liteville 301 3) Whyte M-109 tests were an inspiring read 3) Whyte S-129 too though… 4) Bionicon Golden Willow anyone?

Giant Anthem 29er. 100mm of travel, still feels capable. Easy to drop on from a hardtail and will probably be as light as the soul. Mind I dont like 4bar suspension as it relies on shocks to reduce bob!

Jay

I will try to avoid asking a question too open to make any sense:
– I’ve been riding hardtails for years on end and love them
– I fancy having a 2nd proper bike

Well there’s a contradiction in terms straight off. What do you mean by a ‘proper bike’?

& what’s all that crap about, – I sat on a Cotic Rocket today, it felt plush like a sofa, riding position like a 30s motorbike (wide, long, low) and I had mixed feelings about it a) whoah that’s really different b) arrgh, that might be too different?

What a pile of crap. For such a ‘seasoned’ rider you don’t seem to have a clue of what your on about.

EDIT, bugger, you got me to bite didn’t ya??

Don’t really have much by way of particular recommendations, but I moved from hardtail to FS recently.

My only bike was an Evil Sovereign, which I absolutely loved – was pretty much my first ‘proper’ mountain bike, having ridden old Konas and stuff in the past.
I basically learned how to ride and what to ride on the Evil and it definitely made me the relatively rounded, experienced and confident rider I am today, having ridden everything from 24hr XC races to the Mega on it.

Eventually, I got to the point where I felt ready to progress to a suspension bike to move forward with my riding, which sort of coincided with putting a decent crack into the Evil, so I retired it and got myself an Orange Five. Bit of an obvious choice, but the right one for me for various reasons.

The Five’s been my only bike for about 5 months now and I’m getting on with it really well. It’s used for all the same duties as the Evil – from DH to XC and lots of in between. Basically I can do all the same stuff, but harder, faster and for longer. As much as I loved to Evil and hardtails in general, the Five is superior in almost every respect – super keen to skip, pop, manual and rear wheel steer everywhere even more than the HT as well as obviously quicker in the rough stuff.

The main difference I notice is that, the harder you lean on it, the lower and slacker the bike gets as the suspension is compressed, so you can get away with pretty much anything in a way that a HT simply doesn’t encourage or allow.

That’s been my experience anyway – I tend to ride steep/loose/generally ‘rad’ stuff, so it makes sense for me in that context. FWIW, I hope to resurrect the Evil when funds allow, ‘cos I still love it.

I’m moving from a cromo long travel hard tail to a mojo hd. I was in no rush to go fs for the same reasons as you, heavy, sofa like, poor power transfer.

The mojo has none of these traits and a huge list of benefits. ‘cept the outlay 😯

General stuff…

The first full sus you ride, unless it’s a right heap o’crap will feel great plush and fun.

Contrary to popular belief FS can be just as flicky as HT on the right bike.
Try whatever you can get you hands on, have a look at some 140mm stuff just to see, get on your mates bikes

@fortunateson: thanks, that was helpful indeed! Because I like the “you can lean on it and get away with it”-aspect as that would be one of the things that would actually motivate me to buy into something new and different – but a Five? :-/ I don’t know, they look so crude. But I will take your word for it and have a closer look at one of them. Cheers!

@grumpyfuttock: I kind of see what you mean – let me explain:
– a proper 2nd bike was meant to mean: I currently have about 4-6 bikes, but the Soul is the only bike I choose for a proper 3h bike tour, the others are toys (Trailstar, BMX) or retro bikes (Breezer, DEER) which I only use for short stints, ride with the kids, pump-track. The Soul is my only ‘proper’ do-it-all bike and I would love to have a second ‘proper’ do-it-all bike, just different enough to justify having a 2nd one.
– my verdict on the Rocket is somewhat crap because I only sat on it for 3 minutes tooling around on a car park – mentioning it was meant to confirm that I am intrigued on the one hand side and kind of scared on the other because it is so different that I can’t really tell whether I would like it or not – go figure! 😉
– finally I might not seem to have a clue of what I am on about because I have no clue of FS bikes, I mean do the have to be plush sofas to be any good or is there something like a responsive springy FS bike which I think would be more to my liking but is possibly totally pointless as a FS bike to start with
– what I liked about the Rocket was that it had a round steering feel to it despite that mega-slack head angle

@Jason: Anthem, hm?! I am reading good things about them all the time – I will have a closer look again

you can generally tune the shock to make a bike feel as plush or as harsh as you like, there aren’t really any bad designs anymore as the shocks have gotten to the point where they can mask any shortcomings of the frames design.
some people like VP systems some like horst link bikes i’m a big fan of single pivots.
the only way to know is to try a few.

Specialized Camber 29er.

I have both and love both but they are both low n slack with plenty of travel because that’s what I like.

Am I right in presuming that at 100mm a Soul is low but not slack? Maybe that’s what you like so what you should be looking for?

I reckon you might like the new Scott genius… they are a great bike to be honest, and the ability to lock out the suspension from the bars is very useful in my opinion, it makes it feel like a hard tail.

@Mugboo:
– yes, a Medium Soul with 100mm fork, 70mm stem and low-rise bars for a 6ft guy is rather low and not very slack, probably even on the steep side of things by “today’s standards” (will check Cotic HA calculator, but I reckon it’s +/- 70°)
– I like the agility of a steep headangle and found too slack a headangle slow and somewhat isolated doing its own thing somewhere to far in front of me
– then again it might be a riding-style topic, too which I might/want to/will have to adjust to with a different bike
– hence the question should I go proper different or will I hate it
– I mean, seasoned as I am an new bike is also a chance to re-learn, which is good I guess
– am I right that you have to “lean” slack bikes more, lean like: commit more to the corner?!
– I will test a few bikes (thx for the Scott Genius and Spesh Camber hints!)

Sounds like only you can answer your own questions by riding a few.

Hi mate,

I always rode a hardtail, anything from quite racey treks to the orange R8 I have now, probably not hugely different to the cotic, I run 120mm rebas, haven risers and cinder tires so it’s a decent all round trail hardtail.

Three weeks ago (after asking advice on here) I bought an Orange Gyro 29er, and it’s been great. It’s much more capable, fun and stable on rocky and steep descents and it climbs brilliantly. It’s no heavier than my hardtail either.

I originally thought I’d keep my hardtail for rides where I’d need to do road sections, or anything with lots of fire roads that I might have to do with the mrs but to be honest with the shock settings and 29er wheels the gyro is quicker on that terrain too. Definitely gets my vote but if you don’t like orange then I guess anything 29″ with 100-120mm travel.

Oh, and the rocket sounds like a good place to start, by all accounts it feels nice and firm till you hit something big. Pretty sure I read the same about the Yeti SB66.

Complete opposites to your bike. And then the Anthem as suggested.

Good luck.

Specialized Epic Carbon 29er range.
I borrowed one from the bike shop for a week whilst my Enduro was in for a week. Incredible bike! It is the fastest bike I have ever ridden on flat, uphill and tamer downhill. I kept thinking that for a XC race bike it just feels inspiring, fast and playful. The rear end with the bolt through was really noticeable. I ended up selling my Enduro to get a 29er (couldn’t afford the Epic at the time). I’d love to have one.

I went from xc hardtails to whyte T129s and totally love it..

So you want a similar style bike to your HT and not a slacked out long winch plumet bike. Anthem 29er. Fast pedalling fast handling responsive and light. And it won’t beat you up when you ride on rougher trails.

Anthem 26/29 but put some 120mm forks on the front.

I wouldn’t bother with the Five. Great bikes but, with your history, if you liked it you’d be bound to like the Rocket more. The Gyro is a bit closer to what you are after, but is still more XC/Trail than the sort of Race/XC that might suit you better. More T129/Trance than M109/Anthem, which is where I’d start if I were you.

It might also be worth waiting to see what the forthcoming shorter travel Rocket is like.

I changed from a 26 HT to a FS purely because of my knackered lower back.

I was worried at first about the “energy sapping” and pedal bob related issues that FS can have but have found that my Turner Flux is excellent and doesn’t suffer from said problems.

I briefly rode an Anthem & Trance before the Turner. For me they didnt even come close to the Turner. In fact I like the Flux that much that im buying the longer travel Turner 5 spot this week for more knarlier stuff

Stu

First of all, I think you need to be clearer about what it is you intend to ride with the new bike. More technical stuff, faster, bigger jumps?

Until you have more of an idea of what you would like to do with the bike, you will get people recommending you all sorts of different stuff that you might not get on with.

3) Whyte M-109 tests were an inspiring read 3) Whyte S-129 too though..

The M-109 overlaps a lot with your HT in terms of functionality, the T-129S is a bigger gap. If you’re going to have > 1 bike, make them as different as possible.

What I would do (& did) first in your situation though is dump the Soul and buy a 29er HT. Ride that for a bit then come back to the process.

I’ve recently made the jump to fs having ridden santacruz chameleons for the last 15 years.

Picked up a 2008 intense 5.5evp frame for bugger all money and in all honesty it feels just like the chameleon but it’s faster with more control and far more comfortable. Granted it’s a fair bit heavier but I haven’t started paring the component weights down yet, total build is a touch over 32lbs but it isn’t noticeably heavy.

For me the vpp system works incredibly well, it doesn’t bob, accelerates almost as quick as the chameleon did and will find traction where the chameleon couldn’t. On the whole is a whole lot more capable 🙂

First of all, I think you need to be clearer about what it is you intend to ride with the new bike.

Fair enough:
I do ride Singletracks enthusiastically, but not too technical, not too steep, no rock-gardens, only minor jumps, no drops. Once or twice a year I go to the Alps. And coped fine on the Soul. I wouldn’t mind going to Bike Parks more often.

Then again, one man’s technical is another man’s boring, isn’t it?
I ride with guys who ride all-mountain full sussers a lot and am at least as quick as they are but what does that tell you? :-/ They might be slow by your standards anyway.

My point is in a way, that I might not know what I will be riding as soon as I have a different bike. I might start feeling more confident, do more jumps etc.

Thus all the shared experience here, especially from those who did the move themselves, is valuable forme. I’m not after the definite answer to my question anyway as I know that ultimately only I can answer my own questions by riding a few bikes.

So keep it coming!
Did someone for example move from Soul to Rocket?
What was it like? Initially awkward, ultimately perfect and the Soul was never used again?

On the 29er topic: I had an Inbred29 before the Soul. I’m still missing the traction in corners but I didn’t like the comparatively slow steering. Then again 29er might have moved on and I could do two things in one step: from 26HT to 29FS.

By the way: the thing that currently annoys me most about the Soul is lack of front-end stiffness. So I’m thinking of getting a stiffer fork, through axle, stiff front-wheel for the Soul anyway (currently running DT Swiss M1600 with QR in Magura Durin). But that’s another topic.

If you’re worried you wont like it just get a few test rides. Plenty of nice efficient light FS bikes out there to choose from, but I can only personally recommend the Anthem X 26er – light efficient good value for money.

I had an Inbred29 before the Soul. I’m still missing the traction in corners but I didn’t like the comparatively slow steering.

Look at Canfield Yelli Screamy, upcoming Singular Buzzard, anything with similar geometry especially the short chainstays. Kona Honzo is one I’ve seen mentioned.

I bought a Yelli Screamy a couple of weeks ago (my third 29er HT) I assure you the steering is anything but slow, in fact it’s near telepathic.

The Whyte T129S is as short as they go on a rear boinger, but they’re still longer than the HTs of course because the wheel has to move somewhere.

Try a Solaris. You might reconsider the need for a FS. Probably find FS is a step too far on the squishy side… 😕
29er HT (for me), has a foot in both camps as long as its specc’ed right. A lot of off-the-peg 29er HT’s have a XC race bike type slant to them. Keep the Solaris at 100mm & I reckon you’d be a happy chap.
(I dont have a Solaris by the way).

If you don’t really know what you want then a series of test rides and/or a trawl through the classifieds for something used where you can experiment without too big an outlay / financial re-sale risk. A decent new FS is going to be at least £1,000 more than equivalent Soul – that could be an expensive lesson in “what I have is fine” especially as you don’t intend to ride it anywhere particularly different.

Ok so it sounds like you want something that can let you get away with a bit more, while not being too barge like or smoothing everything out and feeling like a sofa.

A 29’er will feel like a barge compared to a bmx and will take more effort in the tight twisty stuff compared to a 26’er, so I’d discount that option.

Anything long travel will feel a bit disconnected compared to what you are used to so I’d discount that also.

That leaves short(ish) travel 26’ers as a possible option.

Have a gander at the whyte 120 and giant trance x. Both amazingly good fun and great to ride if you have come from a hardtail.

My two cents, I think you could go two ways, either get a big full sus, which is markedly different from the soul, something like an alpine, rocket, or nomad, big forks up front, and use that for bigger stuff…

Or go for a fairly light, poppy full sus with about 120-140mm travel. I just got a Genesis Grapil, yes new bike syndrome, but I do absolutely love it. Very stiff, 120mm on the rear so feels poppy and responsive, 140mm up front and you can even put a longer stroked shock if you want to take it to the alps…it really flies when you start putting the pedal strokes in. Cotic has a similar idea coming out soon, and theres always a Blur tr, if you can aford it!

Probably not your kinda bike but I really love my Scott Voltage. It’s not as plush and wallowy as other fs bikes I’ve ridden so it still feels pretty nimble but can soak up bigger hits if you need to. I suspect the fairly “dead” feeling manitou shock may play a big part in that as well, though. Effortless to jump and whip, I love it 😀 Maybe a bit heavy duty for the kind of riding you seem to do though.

I’m going to resist responding to that chap saying “29er = barge” and just say try a few for yourself.

I’m going to resist responding to that chap saying “29er = barge” and just say try a few for yourself.

The guy rides bmx. A 29’er will feel like a barge in comparison.

the short Rocket starts to make more and more sense
Anthem will definitely get further investigation
Blur? yes, but costly as you say

I wouldn’t mind a 29er HT as a do it all “bah, I don’t need full suspension”-bike. I actually have a soft-spot for fun Trail 29er as a concept BUT I guess I’m ripe to give FS a go, so a 29er HT got to wait until I return to HT as the only way to go (if I will return that is)

By the way: I don’t really get the difference in concept between Giant Trance and Anthem. Trance has a little more travel and a little slacker HA. It seems to be only a little different is that right?

Trance is slightly heavier, longer travel with better standover design – more “Trail” orientated.
Anthem is an XC race bike that feels “OK” on the trails – more likely to feel like a HT!

Both are good for long days in the saddle, but then I like the Maestro suspension so I would say that!

Horses for Courses…

Trance is slightly heavier, longer travel with better standover design – more “Trail” orientated.
Anthem is an XC race bike that feels “OK” on the trails – more likely to feel like a HT!

and while I read that something says “Go TRAIL! If you do FS don’t try to stick to XC too much.” 🙂

The anthem is snappier. The Trance is more MOR/adaptable ( you can turn it into a lighter Reign or a heavier Anthem)

Turner 5 spot – I’ve just moved to this from a Blur LT

DW link is really stiff – like a vpp you get no bob, like a horst link you get no brake jack.

Bit spendy mind – I managed to pick up an ex display frame for a good price though.

Not particularly slack so doesn’t feel like a barge