[Closed] What Full Suspension bike for a seasoned Hardtail rider?

ah, OK, I somehow thought only those with a link in the chainstays are actual 4-bars

[u]again while reading your words - and that's how helpful forum questions/answers can be - something became clearer to me:[/u]
- I certainly want to be able to stand up and pedal uphill
- and I definitely want to be able to sprint out of corners and on flat sections

For climbing out of the saddle, any boinger becomes near rigid with the shock locked.

- I certainly want to be able to stand up and pedal uphill
- and I definitely want to be able to sprint out of corners and on flat sections

That would be a hardtail then! 😉

That would be a hardtail then!

Damn! 😉

"That would be a hardtail then!"

Damn! 😉

Which one do you fancy? You know really.

Get that one.

sod the 29inch wheels, get a meta4x and be happy, like I was. Its a hardtail that bails you out when it all goes wrong 🙂

http://wideopenmag.co.uk/news/18448/commencal-announce-the-2013-meta-4x

http://wideopenmag.co.uk/news/18448/commencal-announce-the-2013-meta-4x

Want!

the Meta 4X looks like A LOT of fun for going into the nearest neck of woods and let it rip
but would you take into the Alps for epic day-trips?

Which one do you fancy? You know really.

and that's the thing: I don't!
I would be so much easier to say: sod the good advise - deep in my heart I want [i]that[/i] one anyway! Just because it looks right! And just because I like the brand or something.

And with hardtails it would be easy: I could list at least five 26 and 29 hardtails I really would love to have! [this is where takisawa2 would say: Easy, forget FS, go Solaris! 🙂 ]

But with FS bikes I am pretty much clueless (and somewhat want-less). While I am still struggling to define what I [i]need[/i] I don't even know what I would [i]want[/i]. Poor me! 😉

Look, as a Cotice fan-boy I kind of like the idea of getting a Cotic Rocket, but I am not sure if it's the right bike for me (too much travel, weight, slack). So I kind of wait for the short-travel one. But it's also expensive just to find out that I might not like it.

Anyway: it's probably one of the best problems to have and an exciting phase where you think about getting a new bike and are still searching.

🙂

takisawa2 would say get a Niner SIR9.

It's fun talking about it, yeah.

I do think you should be looking at a trailsy bike, otherwise you're not getting anything your Soul can't do anyway. Well your Soul can do it, but I mean something different.

I decided in Feb to get a 29er FS trail bike to replace my 9 year old Blur, as soon as I walked away from stupid money carbon a whole world of choice opened up in the 1500 to 3 grand price bracket.

Current version of WhatMTB has their 'trail bike of the year' feature, it covers about 30 bikes. Worth a dig maybe.

takisawa2 would say get a Niner SIR9.

-> which would be on my dream hardtail list (and a Pace RC129, a Solaris, a Canfield Nimble9, current Soul...)

Current version of WhatMTB has their 'trail bike of the year'

-> which I have right at the side of my bed 🙂

Norco, Whyte, Santa Cruz, Giant...
the answers in this thread have been more helpful though

how much are you actually looking to spend though? that will limit options considerably. On a personal note i went from a 2001 GT Zaskar to a 2013 Whyte 146 and have found it awesome, still use the GT, but only for flatter trails/long days in the saddle, the Whyte is perfect when it requires more ups and downs.

Like you I wanted to go from HT (Indian Fire Trail - fairly light and quick) to a full suss. I tried briefly a Trek Fuel Ex9 in the LBS, and had pretty much decided on it, even though it felt a bit 'soft'. Mu wife wanted an anthem and so we went to Rutland and hired a couple. As soon as I started riding one I knew it was for me. It just made me want to nail everything - standing up to climb - yep, sprint out of corners - yep. I also tried a trance (car park only), but it felt like the Fuel.

I tried the X2 and bought an X1 (2011). And I ride it on the road lots. My poor IFT has been used a couple of times since I got it.

I think that the moral of the story is try a few, but I'd say include an Anthem.

Too much choice.

Nice problem to have.

You need to make an honest list of what's important to you, which is actually harder than it sounds. I've been going through a similar process. I started by thinking it was obvious; of course what I wanted was the best bike for the type of riding I do. So I spent some time thinking about the type of riding I do and the type of riding I'd like to do, before realizing that I was the wrong track. In fact it turns out that I don't want the best bike for xyz at all. It has to be a capable bike of course (as most options are), but after that I have a long list of wants, most of which have very little to do with how the bike rides if I'm honest.

You clearly like Cotic for whatever reason. So, maybe start by thinking about why you like Cotic bikes and whether you are ever going to feel the same way about a bike from another manufacturer. If not, then it's pretty easy; you either buy a Rocket or wait and see what Cy brings out over the summer. If other brands would float your boat just as well then you've got more options, but at least then you'll know a bit more about what you want in a bike.

Thanks for still being with me in this thread! I do appreciate it!

how much are you actually looking to spend though?

but after that I have a long list of wants

I clearly have a soft spot for none-mainstream brands. Like Cotic, maybe Kona, Salsa but also some Genesis bikes. Then there are brands I don't know very well yet, so I am more open. Like Whyte. And I wouldn't want to be seen on a Canyon even though/because it might be the perfect bike.

With Whyte it's the reviews and the "looks right"-looks combined with that 430mm chainstay (by the way: I want a low frame, long top tube, short chainstay).

Side note:
my wife asked if I would be any safer on a FS compared to my current HT

Good question, eh?

Would I? Initially maybe. Ultimately I might start doing things at speeds I shouldn't do at all no matter at which speed.

But that's only a side note.

You could argue that an FS bike is safer. It will let you get away with some mistakes that you'd be punished for on an HT. But due to [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation ]risk compensation[/url] you'd almost certainly just ride it harder. In practice a more capable bike often just means higher speed crashes.

Good to see that you are being honest about your brand loyalties. Many people seem reluctant to admit to this, preferring to pretend that their decision is entirely rational. Maybe it is for some people, but I bet most of us have preferred brands if we are honest.

You need to test ride a few to get to know what you like. Try different suspension linkage as well. Deffo try the BMC four stroke 29er really nice bike iv test rode the top end carbon one and it rode really well, it was the first 29er I'd rode and thought yea that was fun it didn't feel much different than an 26.

http://m.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/article/bmc-fourstroke-fs01-29-first-look-36286/

[u]risk compensation[/u]

!that was the term I was looking for 🙂
well, I guess I won't tell my wife about it

[there might be a parallel to cars here, a low-tech car can be a lot of fun at relative low speed whereas a perfect modern car can be boring at insane speeds]

concerning brands and image: it's not all marketing bullshit, brands do have an important role of being an orientation in any market where the number of product variants/makes/modells and the perceived product variety is huge while actual product differentiation is pretty low

brands do have an important role of being an orientation in any market where the number of product variants/makes/modells and the perceived product variety is huge while actual product differentiation is pretty low

I like that. Not sure I understand it, but I like it 🙂 The last bit certainly seems to apply to mountain bikes in my experience. In practice, for most of us, most of the time, there is bugger all difference between lots of them and it's only bike geeks with too much time on their hands who pretend that there is.

I think there's an easy way of showing that brand is not just hot air but an actual part of the product experience:
- imagine you would have hundreds of bike brands like today, but legal regulations would ban any branding, e.g. bikes would all come in white and instead of the brand there would be numbers and instead of modells letters
- for sure the genius of some companies would shine through and the "357 K" would still be a cult bike for those who know, just like the "427 N"
- but we would still miss something, wouldn't we?

Now we have those who de-decal their bikes and components. What about them? Well, it only works for them, because most bikes are branded. It wouldn't be very cool in a world with unbranded bikes. People would probably invent their own branding.

🙂

but I am digressing slightly...

Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket. Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Anthem? Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket. Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket, Whyte, Whyte, Norco, Rocket... (to be continued)

Work out a drum sequence, hire some dancers and I reckon you've got the makings of the next Youtube hit there 🙂

Part of what appealed to me re the Whyte was it's a bit quirky and British, I also liked the attention to detail such as the seat clamp and the bearing covers. (It also helped that I bought it from a local dealer so have service backup, whereas a HT I can do myself).

Branding is part of how something is, no point denying it.

Ps I didn't ride the Giants but it's rare to find someone who has and doesn't like them. The silly stem size put me off a bit, I can see that being a b**lache. I prefer interchangeable parts.

Get a few test rides sorted & give the bikes a decent test on terrain that you like to ride on.It's much better than listening to people tell you about their own,their mates,or the bike they'd like to buy....Which is about as useful as a biased MTB mag review,it's probably worse thinking about it...........

I am currently trying to get test-rides for the weekend sorted. Not so easy to get hold of the exact bikes though. Whytes not available at all.

Might have to start with testing any available full suspension bike. But that should give me at least an initial idea whether I might like it or not and I can take things from there.

Many thanks for all the advise - I'll keep you posted!

Has someone suggested a Santa Cruz Superlight yet?

Santa Cruz Superlight

well, I am aware of it but somehow assumed that it would be not very sophisticated in the way it reacts to impacts etc. I read a review somewhere that wasn't too enthusiastic.

do you reckon it could fit?

I have a Superlight 29er which I am enjoying. I come from a hardtail background. I'm sure it's not as sophisticated as more modern designs but it does the job and I am very happy. It climbs well, will little bob even out of the saddle climbing. With 120mm fork it descends well too.

Not a very good pic. Now has Reverb.
[img] [/img]

it looks ace on that pic - that's for sure!

Why thankyou! Mate has just bought a SC LT Carbon Tallboy - now that is VERY nice!

I think they look good, would be a candidate if I wanted a XC boinger. Simple is good.

Simple is good.

😕 I will grab that review when I'm home
brand-wise it would fit 😉

I was a die hard HT rider, but last year I went for a Scott Spark 35 to ease my aching old bones. Love it. Good allrounder I think.

But then I'm a crap rider so I wouldn't know anything. }:8)

OK, I started doing some reading... I read VPP and DW-link and drop link...
VPP, DW, drop... VPP, DW, drop, VPP, DW, drop...

(it's a little bit like having been locked in the early 90s and now discovering the wonders of full suspension development in time lapse mode)

Personally I'm absolutely baffled by all the various suspension designs and I doubt if I could tell the difference (much) when riding. Perhaps it matters at the top of the professional sport, when tiny differences in performance could affect results, but for the typical weekend warrior (that's us by the way), I doubt it.

A lot of this is really businesses fighting over patents and intellectual property rights IMO.

true, but as I don't like the idea of the single pivot swingarm concept and superficially grasp the benefits of multi-link systems it tickles my technical curiosity to at least start to understand the differences 🙂

I went from riding for 5 years on a 11kg HT to a 180mm Full Susser weighing 14.5kg. They both put a smile on my face for the opposite reasons. In about 4 years I will probably replace the full susser with a 140/150mm bike. I do find I ride the HT less and less, but every time I do, I am amazed by it!

There are sooo many choices out there! Good luck! 😉

[u]Quick update:[/u]
only got one test-bike arranged but it stays with me for the whole weekend and might provide a pretty comprehensive full-suspension experience as it is a Bionicon Golden Willow:
- integrated travel adjustability from 2.8-5.5 upfront(rear stay at 4.7in)
- according headangle range from 74° to 67° and everything inbetween
- apart from that classic 4-bar with chainstay joint

I will try to get the most out of it!

First ride on full-suspenson today, usual loop, but very muddy so don't know how much that dilutes the experience.

Initial thoughts:
- it encourages a non-jumper to jump more
- a lot of bulk and faff (weight not so much, but things to adjust, things that move, things that isolate you from what's going on)
- stayed in uphill position a lot because it felt natural and right
- downhill position sacrifices front-end bite due to weight being shifted to the rear

Not sold to the idea of FS yet, but will keep trying to like it.
Definitely not ready yet to spend any money on it!

Cheers!

hock

Superlights are simple but great, and if you want the evolved version go for the Blur XC (pricey though) - but the most hardtail-like FS bikes are a) the Cannondale Scalpel, and b) the Specialized Epic. Someone mentioned the Scott Genius - yes, you have bar mounted full lockout, but it's a bit long travel perhaps for you. The Scott Spark is shorter travel and still has full bar mounted front and rear lockout.

Bet you're confused after all these suggestions........!

Went out for another brief test ride on almost dry, flat singletrack. Definitely terrain that doesn't need a FS bike. While this is my preferred terrain, it's a bit of a shame that I didn't have the chance yet to test it on rougher stuff.

Locked out rear damper and the bike felt right: more agile, more positive feedback, less irritating geometry/position changes. BUT even with the rear damper locked it still encouraged to jump more than my hardtail because the rear would still allow for some give in the rear on harder impact.

[u]Which leads me to 2 conclusions:[/u]

1) I obviously like my hardtails. Main benefit of a FS bike accessible to me so far seems to be the safety net effect when jumping/landing. This could suggest a FS bike that behaves like a hardtail most of the time. I know that you can tune the damper to achieve that behaviour but while I have the chance to buy a bike I would rather choose one that's inclined to a more HT behaviour anyway.

- the Commencal Meta 4X has been suggested, but I am not sure about it's everyday-do-it-all-qualities.
- the SC Superlight seems to fit the bill (just read an older long-term test by Steve Worland in WMTB).
- Scalpels, Epics and Genius have been suggested: will they be fun and trail-"smart" in a Soul way?
- are there others that would fit the "HT with safety-net" bill?
- Anthem anybody? in the end I might buy one despite brand reservations...
- the short-travel Cotic Rocket creeps in again, too...

2) So while I could settle for a FS that actually mimics a HT I should probably still try to test a FS bike in more appropriate conditions that might show me whether I might like to ride something new and different etc. rather than reduce a FS to a HT with safety-net. I will try to rent a FS bike at a bike park, in the Alps etc.

While this process will probably take a little more time the Soul will see some LTC and a new stiffer fork, maybe through-axle.

From reading the ramblings in this thread, you seem to suffer from analysis paralysis.

Rather than over thinking every little detail, go and try some bikes that are short travel ie <120mm travel and see how you get on.

Anthem 29er may be more your cup of tea...Some seem to think they're only ok for cross country on here,which is crap.Mine clattered banged & bumped its way around the Dyfi with my 13'n a bit stone on it.It's also had countless trips to other Welsh rocky places....