Rebel you really sound like the “risk taker” that worries people who
have some idea of what they are talking about .
Get some advanced training soon for the benefit of us all.

finishthat – Member

Rebel you really sound like the “risk taker” that worries people who
have some idea of what they are talking about .hand wringing, high horsing pompous wind bags who have no idea or context what they are talking about and little to worry about.
Get some advanced training soon for the benefit of us all.

How do you know he hasn’t had any advanced training? I’m amazed by the people who seem to be self ordained saints of the road and criticise anyone who suggests they overtake a few cars without knowing any anything about the driver, their car, the road or conditions. Automatically assuming the poster has taken some drastic life endangering effort to overtake and to hell with the consequences when no hint has been made that this is the case.

It’s almost as if these people assume this stance to justify having shit, slow, boring cars. No doubt they’re probably the same people trolling motorways, overtaking at a 1mph speed difference and moving out of the way as slowly and begrudgingly as possible when they see a faster car approaching.

I overtook two cars in one go today…!

Why would he need training, he’s 100% safe? Impressive considering how many people die whilst not even overtaking.

I’m fairly sure that’s the first time one of the driving gods has actually claimed invincibility!

Is it wrong that I now want see the thread where the tractor has indeed pulled out in front of Rebel as he’s overtaking 18 vehicles using his 300bhp to keep out of trouble and he’s destroyed his car? Wouldn’t wish any injuries of course.

How do you know he hasn’t had any advanced training? I’m amazed by the people who seem to be self ordained saints of the road and criticise anyone who suggests they overtake a few cars without knowing any anything about the driver, their car, the road or conditions

He claims 100% safety whilst doing it? That’s utter naivety speaking. No one can be so cocksure, no one has any idea whatsoever what will happen in the 10 seconds (say) or so it takes from committing to overtaking the 5 vehicles in front of you to pulling back in onto the correct side of the road. No idea.

molgrips – Member

I overtook two cars in one go today…!

Did anyone survive?

I overtook two cars in one go today…!

Maniac! 😉

molgrips – Member

I overtook two cars in one go today…!

Yay for molgrips, he is human after all 😆

I’m not making assumptions, I’m pointing out the risks, Jimjam. However as I’m one of the critics of driving behaviour that puts others at risk I’ll count myself in amongst the hand wringers. You’d be wrong to assume I don’t know what I’m talking about.

No one can be so cocksure, no one has any idea whatsoever what will happen in the 10 seconds (say) or so it takes from committing to overtaking the 5 vehicles in front of you to pulling back in onto the correct side of the road. No idea.

10 seconds? Pffft. I’m pretty sure I’ve overtaken 11 or 12 cars in that length of time.

10 seconds? Pffft. I’m pretty sure I’ve overtaken 11 or 12 cars in that length of time.

Good for you 😐

No one survived.

He claims 100% safety whilst doing it? That’s utter naivety speaking. No one can be so cocksure, no one has any idea whatsoever what will happen in the 10 seconds (say) or so it takes from committing to overtaking the 5 vehicles in front of you to pulling back in onto the correct side of the road. No idea.

Why is that naive, yes things can happen, the situation in front of you can change but with enough forward planning and observation then (barring a meteorite storm) you can predict all of these things. These are skills that an Advanced driving course can help you with. If you expect and allow for the unexpected then even overtaking 5 cars can be completely safe (or just as safe as any other driving situation – maybe 100% was the wrong choice of phrase).

Going back to fast cars, when overtaking having over 300hp on tap means that I can use say 80% power and still overtake briskly, yet if the situation changes infront then I still have a further 20% to get me out of trouble (say in Educators example if someone making progress comes round a corner in the opposite direction ahead – although when planning an overtake you should have already considered this possibility and already made allowances). You just don’t have those reserves of power or those options available in your average Eurobox.

You can try and justify the fallacy that slow cars are safer all you want but the fact is, a car that accelerates, brakes and handles better will be safer at any given speed or in any given road situation when compared with a lesser model. It’s low standards of driving that are the problem, not the cars themselves and in the hands of someone who’s unskilled, a 1 litre city car has just the same potential to cause damage and injury as a high powered sports car, perhaps more potential if it’s going to be driven at higher speeds since a lesser car will have poor reserves of safety when it comes to handling, braking, acceleration etc.

You can try and justify the fallacy that slow cars are safer all you want but the fact is, a car that accelerates, brakes and handles better will be safer at any given speed or in any given road situation when compared with a lesser model.

Yes but what’s the point in buying a fast car to drive it at the same speed as a normal one?

People buy fast cars to drive them fast, don’t they?

It’s not the fast car that’s the issue, it’s the fast driving. A Passat bombing past a line of cars at 90mph is dangerous just the same.

Molgrips Member
It’s not the fast car that’s the issue, it’s the fast driving. A Passat bombing past a line of cars at 90mph is dangerous just the same.

Wrong – as any experienced Traffic officer will tell you – its INAPPROPRIATE SPEED that is always the issue.

molgrips
A Passat bombing past a line of cars at 90mph is dangerous just the same.

More dangerous in some ways. A base spec model will have inferior brakes, smaller, harder tyres, softer suspension than a high performance version.

You also have a considerably slower over take,leaving you exposed to potential risks longer.

molgrips

People buy fast cars to drive them fast, don’t they?

Only when the need/want arises. Better looking at it than looking for it.

Yes, ok maybe more dangerous. But this isn’t about car safety.

Driving fast is more dangerous than driving sensibly, and you can do it in any car. Fast cars are for driving fast. If you’re not going to drive fast don’t buy a fast car. If you are, then it’s dangerous so don’t. Therefore you don’t need a fast car.

You might think you can do it safely, because you’re special. Well, physics and psychology are both against you I’m afraid.

If you expect and allow for the unexpected then even overtaking 5 cars can be completely safe

Okay, my car has just shy of 400 hp and is a full blown modern day sportscar. I’m trying really hard to think about the last time I had a reasonably safe opportunity to overtake 5 cars in a row on a single carriageway. I know it can be done, but usually if the opportunity to overtake exists then at least one of the 5 cars in the queue (usually behind a truck or pensioner on their last legs) is likely to be thinking of giving it a go too and at least one of them is not likely to have checked their mirrors to notice if a 400 hp supercar is steaming up behind them at twice the speed. I’m sorry, but it’s a recipe for a really massive shunt.

It’s not just about your own judgement in that kind of situation, it’s relying on the simultaneous judgement of 5 other drivers all probably thinking how they can get past the slow moving traffic themselves. You are likely to be the biggest surprise to them at that point. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but quite a few drivers will take massive risks in whatever they are driving.

If you expect and allow for the unexpected then even overtaking 5 cars can be completely safe

I expect the unexpected, that’s why I don’t do that kind of thing! I expect someone to pull out to overtake themselves without looking in their wingmirrors for me closing at 100mph!

I’m sorry, but it’s a recipe for a really massive shunt.

Absolutely!

Okay, my car has just shy of 400 hp and is a full blown modern day sportscar

But you have a fast car so you MUST drive fast otherwise why would you buy a fast car……? So the rest of your post is far too sensible for you to actually believe. 🙄

Or maybe (despite some peoples beliefs on this thread) some people just like nice cars, like some people like nice bikes, or some people like nice watches……etc

That doesn’t mean we are all mad raving loonies. I have a nice car, it has some hundreds of horse power, but I don’t drive it any faster than my other cars that were ‘slower’, I don’t overtake longer lines of traffic. I like nice cars.

Edukator
The “fantastic handling” is a lot more dangerous than a bland, lifeless, inert Eurobox as any insurance company will tell you.

Whilst I agree with your previous sentiments, this is not strictly true, and is more to do with value and theft desirability once you’re beyond the realms of being a spotty teenager.

A 2l Ford Mondeo will out brake just about every Lotus ever built.

O Rly?

You can try and justify the fallacy that slow cars are safer all you want but the fact is, a car that accelerates, brakes and handles better will be safer at any given speed or in any given road situation when compared with a lesser model.

I’m going to use myself as an example here. I have both a supercar and a relatively slow modern family wagon. Obviously the supercar has by far the better brakes, handling, tyres etc. But I am definitely safer when driving the family wagon. No doubt about it. It’s not like I drive like a dick, but the mentality is totally different. I realise the risks involved in driving a high performance car on a public road and that is really half the battle. It’s one of the problems with modern high performance cars. The performance is quite easily accessible to any numpty. I also have a classic sportscar to remind me how much harder it actually is to drive fast without all the electronics. It makes me feel more vulnerable, which is not a bad thing. But in all cases it’s other road users that scare me the most by far.

I have a nice car, it has some hundreds of horse power, but I don’t drive it any faster than my other cars that were ‘slower’,

So why waste the fuel? There’s only so much petrol, it has to last us.

But in all cases it’s other road users that scare me the most by far

Me too. The ones pissing about in sports cars, often. Actually that’s not true – it’s usually not people in real sports cars, it’s usually executive cars.

moshimonster

Okay, my car has just shy of 400 hp and is a full blown modern day sportscar.

moshimonster
I have a supercar

Okay, stop teasing us, what have you got if you don’t mind.

But you have a fast car so you MUST drive fast otherwise why would you buy a fast car……? So the rest of your post is far too sensible for you to actually believe.

That’s just it, I do drive pretty fast – too fast sometimes and I bollock myself for it later. I’m just more aware of the risks than most (grown up in motorsport). Also now in my mid 40s with 2 young kids so learned to calm down a bit. The 5 car overtake was something I did all too regularly 10 years ago, but luckily I got away with it. If I look back at my driving style as a 20 year old I was a **** idiot at times. A lucky idiot.

Me too. The ones pissing about in sports cars, often. Actually that’s not true – it’s usually not people in real sports cars, it’s usually executive cars.

Passat drivers are the worst IMO 😉

EDIT: just realised Molgrips passat is more powerful than mine 👿

In reference to vunerability have ridden motorbikes, it really helped my awarenes of potential dangers, riding with the mindset that everyone was going to do the most stupid thing possible at any point saved me from a couple of crashes.
With the benefit of age & experience most people will look back and shudder a point they did something stupid and were lucky to get away with it.
I’m without at least 6 friends that have been lost to bike or car RTAs when we were younger almost all down to another drivers mistake.

Okay, stop teasing us, what have you got if you don’t mind.

A Nissan Qashqai 1.5D 🙂

Moshimonster, I admire your honesty.

Whilst we’re at it – I’ve driven too fast plenty of times too, and also been distracted and made mistakes. Came pretty close to being properly killed in a major way once, by being too keen to overtake on the only straight bit for miles, and not waiting for a full clear view of the road.

molgrips – Member

I have a nice car, it has some hundreds of horse power, but I don’t drive it any faster than my other cars that were ‘slower’,

So why waste the fuel? There’s only so much petrol, it has to last us.

Because I like nice cars, I enjoy them. They’re nice places to be, comfortable etc.

Just like I enjoy my bikes. I could ride an entry level bike, but like most people on here I like nice bikes, one that far exceeds my abilities. It gets upgraded because something new comes along rather than it needs it. Did it need a pair of Pikes, are they going to change how I can ride. No not really.

The comparison between nice cars and nice bikes are really very simlar, it’s just one is accepted on STW and the other isn’t.

Passat drivers are the worst IMO

I’m forever overtaking them…

Because I like nice cars, I enjoy them. They’re nice places to be, comfortable etc.

Oh so do I.. but they don’t have to be fast to be nice. You can get some very economical cars that are also nice, and plenty fast enough.

I’m forever overtaking them…

Oh it’s you, is it? You bastard.

Driving fast is more dangerous than driving sensibly, and you can do it in any car. Fast cars are for driving fast. If you’re not going to drive fast don’t buy a fast car. If you are, then it’s dangerous so don’t. Therefore you don’t need a fast car.

Even if you don’t drive fast, a more capable car is still safer at the slower speed you’re driving at than a less capable car.

Where I live, away from the congested south, plenty of places where a 5 car overtake is both frequently possible and safe. If another driver in the queue ahead pulls out unexpectedly I’m ready for that and will overtake appropriately with this in mind from the outset. Sometimes this means overtaking slower initially, giving the vehicles ahead more room and more a chance to see me, and then when alongside the final vehicle in the queue (often a truck which others won’t overtake) giving it more power to get back on to the correct side of the road more quickly.

In a less powerful car you don’t have these options which means that you frequently see rushed, badly thought through overtakes with little margin for error performed by drivers in TDi repmobiles etc. With a powerful car you have much more time to access the situation correctly whilst still performing the same overtake in less time and in a more relaxed fashion, with a greater margin of safety than you can in an averagely powered car.

Can’t see anything wrong with that?

it’s usually not people in real sports cars, it’s usually executive cars.

My car is a magnet for these stereotypes. It’s usually the predictable Audi diesel on a quiet boring dual carriageway. I try not to take the bait, but sometimes just can’t help myself. Never had a problem on a twisty B-road though, nothing ordinary can live with it then.

I’m amazed that nobody’s pointed out that it’s infinitely safer to overtake when you have your lights on full-beam*

*but only if your car has a big enough engine to handle the power loss from running the lights, obvs.

Can’t see anything wrong with that?

Hope your luck doesn’t run out then mate. You seem shall we say over-confident.
I’m now intrigued as to how often you make these big passes? Are we talking daily, weekly, monthly etc?

If another driver in the queue ahead pulls out unexpectedly I’m ready for that

If someone swings straight out into you there’s nothing you can do about it.

Can’t see anything wrong with that?

That’s what worries me! Multi car overtakes at speed are extremely dangerous.

FWIW I’ve seen plenty of stupid overtakes in both fast and slow cars. Those in fast cars seem to be a bit obsessed with ‘making progress’ so they will try and grab the stupidest little snippets of gaps and still risk everything.

If someone drives a fast car nice and sensibly, waits in their queue and is relaxed, I’ve no problem with that. Well, apart from the fuel thing.

FWIW I’ve seen plenty of stupid overtakes in both fast and slow cars. Those in fast cars seem to be a bit obsessed with ‘making progress’ so they will try and grab the stupidest little snippets of gaps and still risk everything.

This is so true of the mentality you can so easily adopt in a fast car. Also people in any sort of car will take massive risks when they are late for their next meeting, dinner, picking up their kids from school etc. We’ve all done it to one extent or another.

Can’t see anything wrong with that?

How old are you and what do you drive out of interest?

Have a look at the braking distance tables published by German, French and Italian motor magazines, Chris. You’ll find the Mondeo does indeed stop shorter than any of the Lotus models listed and many other sports cars or cars with sporting pretensions. Don’t drive close behind a Mondeo if you own a BMW Mini Cooper S.

A base spec model will have inferior brakes, smaller, harder tyres, softer suspension than a high performance version.

Inferior brakes because they don’t have as much power to deal with. Manufacturers fit bigger brakes to absorb more power on performance models but not in proportion to the extra power so IME you’re more likely to cook the brakes on the sporting model than the basic model. The ABS system limits the one-stop performance and again the basic models often do very well, the 2L Mondeo for example.

Tyres (on STW this is never going to end well). Performance cars often have more tread on the road per kilo and less tread pattern. This make aquaplaning more likely. IME performance road tyres are viscious things at the limit but fitting competition tyres which are more forgiving is illegal. Some of the nastiest tyres I driven have been on performance road cars – very good grip up to high limits then slip angles increasing so dramatically I’d call it break away.

Soft suspension is great, the wheels follow the road better. Get the damping set right and you get great grip. Track cars run on billiard tables, roads aren’t smooth but the performance look is “lowered, low profile” and the only way manufacturers can offer that look without owners destroying their spoilers/sumps is to use suspension that is too hard. Overly hard suspension makes the car skittery and less predictable over rough surfaces.

Okay, my car has just shy of 400 hp and is a full blown modern day sportscar. I’m trying really hard to think about the last time I had a reasonably safe opportunity to overtake 5 cars in a row on a single carriageway. I know it can be done, but usually if the opportunity to overtake exists then at least one of the 5 cars in the queue (usually behind a truck or pensioner on their last legs) is likely to be thinking of giving it a go too and at least one of them is not likely to have checked their mirrors to notice if a 400 hp supercar is steaming up behind them at twice the speed. I’m sorry, but it’s a recipe for a really massive shunt.

Yes and No

So your on my really “dull” road.

5 vehicle queue in front of you about 1 mile of tarmac in front of you, no junctions and nothing coming.

Vehicle 1 (the cause of the queue) is a camper van and is trolling along at 40mph enjoying the view.

Vehicle 2 would love to overtake vehicle 1 but thinks the best way of achieving this is to sit 3 metres from the back of the campervan. Vehicle 2 has a great view of the campervan’s net curtains but a terrible view of the road so isn’t going anywhere.

Vehicle 3 is a Nissan Micra – enough said

Vehicles 4 and 5 are a bit further back with a bit of space between them.

You’ve been following this queue for a minute or two watching the gaps between the cars and know this massive straight is up ahead.

As you round the bend and enter the straight nothing has changed, bear in mind the 5 vehicle queue is nearly 100 metres long so vehicle 2 has seen this straight while you were still driving round the previous corner and hasn’t made any attempt to overtake you wait a few more seconds check you mirrors and pull out.

You pass vehicle 5 and the road is still clear, so you keep accelerating and pass vehicle 4. At this point you have a choice pull back into to a the fairly big gap between 4 and 3 or carry on.

There is a lot to think about at this stage but you know instinctively that the sun would melt the rocks your driving past before vehicle 3 (the Nissan Micra) would overtake anything so that only leaves vehicle 2.

Vehicle 2 is still right up the chuff of the campervan and isn’t even doing the little “peek” round the campervan that bad overtakers do. There is still nothing coming and you still have about 1000m of tarmac to play with. So you commit and overtake the final 3 vehicles in the queue.

To the cars you have overtaken it was overtaking 5 cars in a row but in reality it was 3 seperate overtaking moves that you just happened to link together because nothing came the other way and no one else was attempting to overtake.

Of course not all queues of car are well behaved but you can generally discern the nutters after following for a minute or two. Driving up to the back of a queue and just going for it and hoping for the best is a recipe for disaster

Overtaking is like jumping, the taking off is only one bit of it, you also need to plan where to land

Have gone off multi-car overtakes after one on the A9 at Bruar, uphill, where I overtook a car, which then overtook another, I drifted to the RHS and we swept along three abreast. Not so good.

But the clincher (!) was in the 900S, uphill, pulled out to overtake another car, which was behind a van and it pulled out too as I approached rapidly. Cue plenty skidmarks inside and outside (up the Rest and Be Thankful in Argyll so quite an uphill gradient, impressive stopping power…)