Soya – avoided as advised to MrsSOOB as she has hyperthyroidism, clearly there is a lot of conflicting evidence on the environmental side…

There are local veg box deliveries, but they are mostly aimed at families – the grocer ive started using does a weekly box, but so far prefer to pick my own. I do take the point about an enforced expansion of my recipe repertoire

I might have to further investigate a more local source of Chicken/Turkey.

Opinion seems split between packaged frozen veg and a DIY approach

Soya – avoided as advised to MrsSOOB as she has hyperthyroidism, clearly there is a lot of conflicting evidence on the environmental side…

Thanks, helps me make more informed decisions. There is so much BS out there…

returning to this having read the “planet is burning, drowning” thread.

is the only coffee solution to stop drinking it?
just opened a new pack of ground blended coffee, comes in a foil pack that cant be recycled…. apparently its rainforest alliance, but no idea if that means anything.
is ‘organic’ just paying for marketing?
is the slight potential reduction in packaging through buying a bigger bag of beans simply balanced up by the cost of keeping the bulk in the freezer and the energy cost of grinding at time of use?

i recently managed to drop the plastic, from the soap, for shaving from https://shopnoplastic.co.uk/
(i know i should probably grow a beard and stop using the razor blades at all….:))

There are places which will provide coffee in your own containers or a paper bag. Pick your beans, pick your coarseness, there you go sir. Pro tip here, when you get it home, keep it in the freezer.

Or the STW-approved solution of spending a fortnight’s salary on a bean-to-cup machine or separate burr grinder and espresso brewer.

Or the actual STW-approved solution. Like a man with the kangaroo fetish, it comes in pouches. And I can attest, because they sent me a freebie, that it’s very good.

is the slight potential reduction in packaging through buying a bigger bag of beans simply balanced up by the cost of keeping the bulk in the freezer and the energy cost of grinding at time of use?

Hand grinder? Thinking about it, if the freezer’s on anyway, wouldn’t keeping a humongous bag of coffee beans in it help keep it working more efficiently (once they’re cooled, obvs)?

Hand grinder?

That would attract way too much ire, suspicion, achingly corny stereotyping and piss-taking from peers. Do it.

On the whole it’s probably better to have a regular coffee treat from a local cafe which stocks sustainable/ethical coffee. ‘Economy of scale etc’. These days people seem to want to recreate the whole cafe experience (and cinema, restaurant etc) at home (many times a day)

Consumer-culture is a still-fattening genie, and the bottleneck is only only getting smaller.

I had a manual coffee grinder like those. It was a hell of a lot of work to produce very little coffee.

is the only coffee solution to stop drinking it?

Why on earth would you drink it if environmental factors are a significant concern for you? If you can give up meat you can give up coffee.

Why on earth would you drink it if environmental factors are a significant concern for you? If you can give up meat you can give up coffee.

Environmental factors are a concern for everyone, whether we personally acknowledge thatfsct or not. I read “Coffee cultivation covers a broader range of cultivation methods and, hence level of environmental impact, than almost any other crop in the world”

So what’s wrong with sourcing more sustainable coffee?

So what’s wrong with sourcing more sustainable coffee?

You can just substitute coffee for meat, milk, baby octopus, etc in that question. It’ll still be worse than not sourcing it at all. I don’t particularly have a problem with it. I’m rather sanguine in that whatever you do as an individual will make very little difference and moving in the right direction and finding personally sustainable solutions is better than flagellating yourself.

I’m rather sanguine in that whatever you do as an individual will make very little difference and moving in the right direction and finding personally sustainable solutions is better than flagellating yourself.

So you came to mock and remained to mock. Gotcha.

But if we think that voluntarily sourcing/buying more sustainable coffee is ‘self-flagellation’ how would we ever cope with someone serving us some? Would that be like to them whipping us and then stealing our rhino-horn stash?

Or is ‘moving in the general direction’ just buying any coffee ni matter how its sourced, and sustainable sources will still magically happen one day regardless of consumer-habits/demands?’?

If you are vegetarian because you disagree with factory farming methods, then you are putting those farmers out of business who also disagree with factory farming methods and farm in an ethical and sustainable way.

What a load of bollocks! It’s plainly absurd to claim that not eating meat results in more animal suffering, in fact it’s probably the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard anywhere in any debate about vegetarianism. You’re a farmer, you want to protect your livelihood, I get it, but please don’t patronise us with ridiculous claims that vegetarians create more suffering by not eating ‘ethical*’ meat. The only people people guilty of causing animal suffering and environmental destruction in the meat industry are those who farm it and eat it.

*it’s not ethical or sustainable in any case for all sorts of reasons, so you’ll have trouble convincing many vegetarians or vegans to eat it, no matter how well you think you treat your animals.

So you came to mock and remained to mock. Gotcha.

Eh?! Where on earth did you get that from. I see from the rest of your post you’ve completely missed the point so I’ll leave it there to avoid derailing the thread.

It started pretty positively with actual things that you can do.

Cut down on bad stuff, eat more good stuff.

3.fried eggs (cheapest free range, small), frozen spinach

4.
Tuna (tin in spring water), Mayo (supermarket own full fat), Wholemeal Pitta (keep in freezer)

5.
MyProtein Impact Whey (Choc mint – in case you care)

Eggs:

‘Free range’ supermarket eggs aren’t all they are cracked up to be (arf arf),I used to live next door to a major supplier of some of the most expensive, ‘posh’ ‘free range’ eggs sold by Major UK Supermarket. When I saw the packaging it made me laugh as the farm itself was like a green weedkilled desert with thousands upon thousands of chickens crushing into a warehouse ‘barn’ the size of half a football field to get to their soy feed as there was nothing outside for them.

Instead we found a local egg-seller on an FB group. They are only three streets away and we text them to order or call by on spec. £1.50 per 1/2 dozen. They keep chickens in their back garden, some rescue from battery farms). We get freebies sometimes if ‘overlayed’ or undersubscribed. If they have none, I also have found other similar alternatives nearby, likewise, just a short bike ride or a pick on commute-route.

Tuna

OP, you could try swapping the (tinned?) tuna with a chickpea version for salad or sandwich. I tried this the other day and it’s really very good, moreish, fresh

1 x 240g can chickpeas
Pinch black pepper
Pinch salt
1 or 2 tablespoons vegan mayo (homemade or Hellmans Vegan, either can be good)
1 x handful finely diced red onion
7-8 capers with a spoon or two of the caper brine (optional)
1 x level teaspoon garlic powder
Some dill (couple of sprigs fresh or dried)
1 x tablespoon lemon juice

(Optional: veggie omega oils, I use chia seeds or flax oil depending on what I have in)

Method:

Drain the peas (save or freeze the liquid for aquafaba recipes) and mash in saucepan with potato masher until resemble texture of mashed tuna flakes. Use the lemon juice if you need more liquid to mash.

Add all other ingredients and stir in with fork.

Chicken

Usually better to buy a whole chicken than chicken breasts*

Use the whole bird as a roast or in part in different recipes, then the carcass for stock or stew etc. Much more economical. Either cut down on chicken or pay higher price for well-sourced birds. Or both.

I quit chicken recently and just occasionally buy Linda Macs frozen nuggets, with a home made sriracha/BBQ dipping sauce.

Most of my protein comes from eggs, beans, pulses, legumes etc nowadays as all are (usually) widely-available, plant-based, economical and massively versatile.

I am not going to read the whole thread now (but I’ll be nipping back to steal some more ideas) but quick suggestion of a cookbook or two.

The Green Roasting Tin by Rukmini Iyer I’m not sure how the recipes fit with food miles (one step at a time trying to cut down the meat first) but many simple and flavoursome options in just one tin.

Also One Pot, Pan, Planet by Anna Jones which has some good recipes but also some good principles based stuff on building variations of meals.

BRING YOUR OWN COMTAINER SHOPS
We have found two local shops that allow you to bring your own containers and have a good spread of dried and fresh goods with a number sourced locally.

THINGS WE HAVE LEARNED
My other things I’m finding as we seek to lower our meat intake. For context we are sort of three way motivated planet, animal welfare and general health plus my youngest isn’t a meat fiend anyway. We aren’t necessarily intending on going full veggie or vegan just cutting back substantially at this point.

Good herb and spice selections

A little meat packed out with lots of veg is a good stepping stone if you’re struggling to give up the meat (a smidge of chorizo in a bean chilli for example)

Plenty of cookbooks

Just seeing the takeaway comments above as well we’ve realised we cook nicer curry at home than most take aways we’ve had and actually they are often either veggie or low meat bulked with lots of veg. Some of the veggie recipes are super easy – have just done one tonight from the first of the two books above and it was 10 minutes prep and 45 minutes in the oven, not a shred of meat.

wow, cheers all..

coffee
hand grinder? cant convince myself that the effort is worth it. ive got a blade grinder and it takes 5 secs to whizz up the beans to the perfect (random, coarse) texture for the french press.
coffee shop? – nowhere local enough to get my caffeine fix (weekday drug of choice) before i ride to work
give up? – if the future of the planet depended on it… maybe.
STW Deadline coffee? – I nearly spat my virtual coffee, £8/bag!

https://www.renewedecoshop.co.uk/
isnt too far away, slightly lighter on the wallet at £6.50 and the coffee comes in compostable bags which they will take back….I will investigate what else i can get through them, I cant get to the market due to work, but might be able to speak to them about delivery options

Eggs – will look again for something local, ideally on route home from work.

Tuna -> Chickpea. Switch made sometime ago, completely stopped buying tuna.
Chicken – its been dropped from my shopping, not entirely from my diet yet as i will sometimes eat it at work (usually when the veggie option is unpalateable)

We aren’t necessarily intending on going full veggie or vegan just cutting back substantially at this point.

Wholly sensible.

I twitch a little at people who want to know what the ‘rules’ are, or conversely try to preach to others that they’re doing it wrong. The rules are, eat what you want. That’s it. Hanging a label on it is meaningless other than for the benefit of others.

Free Member
STW Deadline coffee? – I nearly spat my virtual coffee, £8/bag!

You’d also be throwing a couple of quid towards supporting a site you’ve had over a decade’s enjoyment use out of. 😁

OP, make your own mayo from the chickpeas when making the ‘tuna’. Make and store in a reusable glass jar. It costs pence not pounds.

To do this use the chickpea juice from your canned chickpeas (or cook some up from dried peas).

I usually chuck the juice away, but learned I can make mayonnaise, meringue, mousse, fudge, brownies, sodabread etc. It’s amazing stuff.

https://www.vegansociety.com/news/blog/20-amazing-things-you-can-do-aquafaba

I was shopping a few days ago looking on the shelf at a small jar of Hellman’s mayo (vegan one) and saw that it was more economical to buy a big plastic squeezy bottle of the stuff. But that’s a lot of money off our budget and also end up having to cut the plastic to get to the stuff when it’s getting low. Loads gets wasted. Those squeeze bottles are over-engineered thick as shit wasteful plastic crapitude.

When I’ve split the bottle I can get four sandwiches thickly spread with mayo. Pain the arse to cut the plastic and you can’t be sure you’re not going to be eating tiny shards of it. Guarantee most of that mayonnaise gets thrown away normally.

Also, with a lot of UK supermarket shelves empty these days we’ ve been missing out on mayonnaise on last few shops.

DI **** Y not? Thought I.

Guessed it would be a faff (and difficult) but turned out we had everything needed to make it (mustard, vinegar, oil, chickpeas) and takes about 5 mins tops. Feeling quite empowered these days learning to make something from scratch ie a different thing every week. Don’t trust me tho:

*edit: the state of affairs before I kicked myself:

comes in a foil pack that cant be recycled

Perhaps not recycle, but im sure you can repurpose it 😕