At the start of summer I’ll be going with 30 of our kids (y11-y13) to Tanzania with Camps International. The cost is over £4k for 4 weeks. In this case students are encouraged to raise the money themselves, and we as a school do as much as we can to facilitate that. There are occasional kids who’s parents have just stuck up the cash, but mostly they’re working for it.

We also run a ski trip for year 8, which is 5 days on the slopes in Italy. I think it’s about £600, all in.

Our catchment area is a really deprived town and then the surrounding farms/villages, so a wide mix of backgrounds. It’s not just the rich kids who go on the trips though.

It’s certainly nothing like the trips I went on as a kid, we went to Normandy, but I think it’s such a great opportunity for them. I would have loved to go on a proper holiday with all my mates and no parents. There’s more to school than counting beans.

So glad it’s not just me who is a little outraged by these trips…

I went to a Surrey secondary school between 1984 and 1988, not once did my year actually take a foreign trip, I am struggling to remember more than one day trip during that 4 years.
Feel that I have now reached that age where I can actually say ‘kids these days….etc etc’.
3-4k Trips though, despite the amazing experience that they would provide I’m sure that must cause a lot of issues with those parents who just cannot afford it, that’s serious money?

My daughter did an exchange visit to Beijing. Two weeks away and the total cost (this was 4 years ago) was £1,400. The trip was cancelled the following year mainly as costs had increased and the school decided it was simply becoming too expensive for the majority of families. However, it had also become apparent that Beijing was no longer as culturally different as it had been when the annual trips first started.

Was it worth £1,400? Probably. My daughter had to learn some Cantonese, she was exposed to a different culture and a month later we had a Chinese girl with us for a week – allowing us to experience some of that too.

Cantonese would not be much use in Beijing, Mandarin the official language there, you would struggle to find Cantonese speakers anywhere (from my experience anyway)?

I got as far as the north France coast and got punched in the neck by my drunken Religious Education teacher!

Has The Black Country Museum closed? 😥

I think these trips are a awful idea for all the reasons suggested here. We should try and compete with the private schools on life experience though, not sure how to square this circle.

I will call BS on Educator.I will also declare an interest, I am taking 28 pupils to Krakow in June for 4 days. Flying and all the visits mean it will cost between 450-500. There is no surplus built into my cost.There are two bag packs arranged in a Supermarket that we will supervise, anybody pushing the free holiday line fancy 8 hours on a Sat doing that? This is in a mixed background school hit hard by the oil slump. Oh; and the tour company gives one place for ten pupils/council insists on three staff so we are chipping in to cover the shortfall so we didn’t have to drop 8 pupils. Statements like “Free holiday” and “travel agency kickbacks” are bollocks. I love Krakow, but A) would happily not set foot in either of the camps for a seventh time. B) don’t like Krakow so much when I have to abstain.

Crikey Moses! £3k for a school trip!
My school trips were ,a week in The Wye valley. It rained all week.
A week in Eskdale . It rained all week.
A week in France – St Cast & Paris. That was great because…

I did get to see a girls boobs for the first time. Brilliant trip.

😀

I had a stand off between two minibus loads of German police and four students accused of smoking dope. After much debate the boss turned to me, told me I was typical teacher, no charges and go away. I’d asked what would happen if he took them in for drug testing, they missed the train and were stuck in cells in F, and then the tests turned out negative.

Call me a liar if you wish, Duckman. Others have accused me of lying about teachers being victims of racist abuse. I know what loaded up credit card for “teachers expenses” is when the company specifies receipts won’t be asked for and cash withdrawals are possible, it’s a kick back (but you don’t have to withdraw the offered cash).

Cantonese would not be much use in Beijing, Mandarin the official language there, you would struggle to find Cantonese speakers anywhere

Whoops. You’re right, it was Mandarin

I’m sure Ed speaks the truth, but think that it would be difficult to do that in the Uk in this day and age. Too much transparency. I paid for my daughter to go to Berlin recently, they did a lot of educational stuff, but not sure it was worth the outlay.

My only school trip was to Bolonge (can’t spell it) which involved is all buying French fireworks and setting them off at school in the following weeks! That was the end of those trips for years apparently! 😳

I know what loaded up credit card for “teachers expenses” is when the company specifies receipts won’t be asked for and cash withdrawals are possible, it’s a kick back (but you don’t have to withdraw the offered cash).

Teaching for 11, running trips for 9 with multiple companies; never heard of this and how does a tour company hide this? Maybe a French thing?

Why make things so unreachable for a good percentage of the school?

Knowing the background and area of the kids that go to your daughters school I’d say 95% of families can’t afford that sort of money.

My daughter won’t be going on such trips!

Perhaps the teacher in question has come from that other school nearby, close to where the footballers mansions are! 😀

I went on a school trip once down Bolsover colliery. That was the only one I think.

The foreign school trips at my fee paying schools were just for a few people so no sense of feeling left out, I never went on a skiiing trip but went to Greece in the lead up to my O’levels which was excellent.

At my son’s infant school in a mostly well off Surrey village we get asked for the odd tenner but they say if anyone feels they can’t afford it that’s ok and their kid can still go so that’s nice. If some schools are suggesting its the norm for parents to pay for theses expensive trips then no doubt some parents are putting themselves into financial difficulty so their kids doesn’t feel they’re missing out.

So what’s in it for the schools anyway? Do the kids benefit educationally or just have fun? An exchange trip for language purposes seems useful but exchange trips shouldn’t be too costly due to staying in family homes.

I know what loaded up credit card for “teachers expenses” is when the company specifies receipts won’t be asked for and cash withdrawals are possible, it’s a kick back (but you don’t have to withdraw the offered cash).

One operator may have done this – but not all. Please can we not insinuate that it is the case for all.

scotroutes example is a good on – although £1400 is steep, it is half of what some of the other trips were. There is clearly more than just a trip (remember foreign exchanges folks?) and done – there is work before, after, during. A school that also made the decision to cancel when costs spiralled as well.

The challenge here is not just the expensive, headline grabbing trips, but the routine and expected local theatres, local green spaces, nearby weekends to field study centres, DofE style self supported expeditions that are much more affordable and much more integrated with the learning and curriculum.

An example: my own sons school does a battlefields trip to France and Belgium each year. 3* hotels, coach everywhere, tour guides each day, day at a theme park. No particular connection with other learning at school (e.g. history, English, languages), other than all S1’s do WW1. Cost £540 for three days in Europe, plus travel time, with commercial tour operator.

Another Scottish school – battlefield trip for four days. All S2’s go to local war memorials and pick a name. They then research that soldier – war records, family etc. Any battles or locations that pop up in that enquiry are also researched by pupils. The pupils then help plan a trip to one of the battle sites that has ‘popped up’. Many other subjects help – French & German to book accommodation and interpret maps; maths to do the budgets and account for monies in; geography to plan a trip and access WW1 maps and land use etc etc. They use train to get to France and have helped plan and book a youth hostel or similar accommodation (self catered), they visit the battle sites where they have also organised a local guide or school to help show them around. They use WW1 maps to ID the ground, draw pictures and compare photo’s, imagine what it is like to be in the trenches, hear local stories and more. They read poetry and stories of the day, as well as newspaper reports. They have ID’d both sides of the battle in this way.

They then usually hold a simple, reflective moment to think about the soldier they have traced and followed to this place in France/Belgium/Germany. A couple of years ago, one of the trips was at a graveyard in France, and a teacher asked for a pupil to step forward – the pupil had researched a named soldier from Edinburgh, who was MIA. The pupils research had actually identified the unmarked grave of the soldier, and where he had fallen. The pupils helped change the headstone to one with a name on…. Cost £280.

Both trips were residential, both had great, fun experiences for the pupils, both were to the same area on the same topic. As a teacher, parent or pupil, which one has had a bigger impact and learning outcome?

The reasons that some of you are more than a bit negative about these trips is not only cost, it is valuing the learning to be had. Personally, I think almost all school trips are great. However, some more work and they can be totes amazeballs.

Some resources to help:
http://learningaway.org.uk/residentials/
Get a copy of Simon and Mike’s book:
https://beamingsimon.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/chapter-1-preface-and-foreword-free-download/
Place responsive outdoor learning:
https://education.waikato.ac.nz/spls/michaelb/pedagogy-of-place-outdoor-education-for-a-changing-world/
etc.

In all my time in education. I think I made it on three school trips.
One to St Marys Lighthouse. One to Housteads fort on the Roman wall and a “ski” trip to Allenheads.
I thought I did pretty well with that and the Cub/Scout camps.

I do dimly recall a ski trip to Norway but that was way out reach for my family.

Oldest offspring is going on the Great Victorian bike ride with his school. 5 days of riding, fed, watered and accommodated for 300 quid. Cant complain at that.

Ever considered why trips are organised? In a few rare cases it’s for noble causes, these are the only reasons I’ve been prepared to get invloved:

– Bettering international relations and giving kids a positive experience of a foreign land and thus make them less xenophobic and better citizens.

– Improving their language skills – in all honesty the only time this happens is in a genuine exchange where they spend time in a family with an exchange partner who they go to school with and share activities with.

– Real educational trips, coal mines, geology and geography field work… .

And then you have the “holidays”. Ski trips, trips to Disney land (a nephew went on a foreign trip in which the group was so protectedhe never encountered anyone he need to speak the language to), visit New York, “aid work” in some poverty stricken land. Raising the school’s profile, marketing a product (the school) in a competitive industry, justifying the head’s fat salary, providing work for the suppliers (and you may not have experienced it, Duckman, but “hospitality” and “covering incidental expenses” happens and doesn’t need to be hidden by the company). It becomes a machine, sometimes a grotesque industry in which the kids are pawns and the parents victims.

So, parents, you weigh up the pros and cons, if it’s a genuine exchange it won’t cost much and they’ll learn a lot – do it. If it’s a jolly then I suggest you spend the money doing something with them yourselves and give your kids a lesson in resisting emotional blackmail and being ripped off. Take them shopping and show them what 3k relates to in terms of shoes, clothes, food or whatever – It’s a Carbon Zesty with full XT and decent wheels FFS!

Blimey. This is all to come for us. Right now it’s a tenner for daytrip somewhere. I know the local secondary school has an exchange programme with a Chinese school, so suspect there will be pressure to do weeks there. Hopefully it’s flights only and getting put up in someone’s house. In that case I can see the pro’s. Expensive jollies seem out of order though.

I know what loaded up credit card for “teachers expenses” is when the company specifies receipts won’t be asked for and cash withdrawals are possible, it’s a kick back (but you don’t have to withdraw the offered cash).

Which company is this, and do they have any vacancies?

….asking for a friend

Take a ticket Doris!

Which company is this, and do they have any vacancies?

Organise the ‘right’ adventure residential, and while the experienced educators 19 year old Groupies look after your children, the teachers have private staff room with separate chef, papers, sky, good internet connection, posh coffee machine. Heaven forbid you want to be out with the children, in the way of the staff winding your kids up as to who can get most muddy educating your children.
One of mine went, and the bonfire was held indoors using red bike lights and some old bedsheets – as it was safer, and midly moist outside. 😕

Having said that, my lad did learn to push himself, did get to stay away from home for three days and did come away positive about some other kids he is going to high school with. Once again however, the trip fell short of what is possible in learning terms, and was a super marketing effort to the teachers – many of whom ignored the teacher ‘entertainment’ and headed out with their learners anyway….(good on them)

My mum used to organise school trips. Theirs were definitely not cushy for the teachers.

But then they were the £150 self organised jobs.

My daughter is down for a trip to Malawi in 2018 the planning for the trip started in January this year – 2 yrs of researching and planning. Cost is around £1500pp (of which she will contribute ¼-½ via personal fundraising (cakes/knitting/bob a job) all organised via in house resources. Comprehensive School in semi rural Scottish town. A specific part of the trip is about working with a school that they have partnered with over there and the teachers from Malawi have been to the school here – the school in Scotland has a constant round of fundraising for the Malawi project and each year the kids are focused on different developmental aspects:

Sanitation and clean water for 2014
Transport and ecology for 2018 – this includes purchasing bikes over there for transport and then gifting them to school upon departure.

The kids are involved in a great deal of the planning and content well in advance and have bi monthly meetings to keep on schedule.
Malawi is a seriously underdeveloped nation and has long established links with Scotland through the David Livingston Memorial Trust.

I have similar feelings to a lot on here regarding the expensive holidays. They seem to have little educational value for me.

The most recent examples I have are a football trip to Amsterdam with the school team. My son loves football but isn’t too keen on putting in any extra work to improve. I was happy for him to go and comfortable with the £500 cost. All I asked him to do was a bit of extra training off his own back to make the most of it. A bit of running etc. He declined so I refused.

My daughter is a good climber. I organised with the local wall to take 15 people to Font. I organised the bus, drove it all week and drove it back. They organised the accommodation and coaching. Cost everyone £350 each and it covered everything to the penny. I didn’t begrudge a penny.

Schools are there to teach. Their ability to give kids the experiences of a lifetime are very limited. I dread the day my son comes home keen to go on a £3-4000 trip. I expect full value for my money and I would want every single thing detailed before I even considered it

I was at an outdoor ed meeting last year with schools from around South East Asia.

The largest school UWCA spends $2mUSD on flights per year for overseas trips for its students. Trip prices range from $500-5000USD.

Standard practice for large schools like that is to not put a whole year group on one flight.

Its optional, if I couldn’t afford Id tell my children that I cant. I would not feel bad about it and they would also learn that honesty and diligence with money is to be admired. Try being honest with your children. If you think its too expensive then say so. People seem to take such things too personal. Is your relationship with your children so fragile and insecure that no is not an option? Turning up and ripping into the organiser is something I wouldn’t want my children to hear about my poor personal behaviour. Not a good example.

Am I the only one that’s surprised (nay, shocked *handwring*) at kids being told to “fundraise” to pay for their expensive school trips?

Isn’t “fundraising” something that should they should be encouraged to do altruistically for someone else or some other good cause (I seem to recall the Economics Entreprise at my school used to flog tat you didn’t need for a “good cause”). Isn’t what they’re actually being told to do (by their school, no less) just asking people for free money?

What is the world coming to?

What is the world coming to?

an end?

Its no different to the ‘beggars’ who come on here asking for people to donate towards their ‘charity’ activity. They get jumped upon but its a little harder to shout down a kid trying to help others (yeah, I bet that’s all they are interested in).

The schools know that parents tend to compete to ensure their little bundle of joy doesn’t miss out. Its happening with mobile phones, it happens with football boots, it happens with everything in school life and it happened when I was a kid too.

I don’t go through life trying to be popular and I have regularly stood up to this kind of thing at the expense of my kids popularity at school. Its rife in every area of life and unfortunately you look bad standing up to it.

Surroundedbyhills example sounds like another good one – embedded in more than just a standalone school trip. Real engagement, learning and opportunity. On top of which is an amazing trip.

Let us not be negative about these things – just check that your are getting best learning, value and inclusion…

And your mother was 100% responsible, Molgrips.

On self-organised the teachers deal with the exchange families or accomodation providers, transport and activities. They spend nights in hospital with sick kids, nights on the phone with irate parents because little darling daughter has been telling them porkies, time dealing with security staff because a kid has keeled over in a shopping complex and they want to call an ambulance but the life-saver teacher knows the kid will be fine and wants to get on a boat in a hour not go to hospital, cope with drunk or high kids who have a private stash, get it in the neck from parents for not preventing kids having a private stash (though the parents would go nuts if you suggested regularly strip searching the kids was the only answer), time sorting out intimate photos the little darlings take of each other and circulate (when it’s not vids of winking competitions), negociate with the local feds on behalf of pupils, accompany a kid 800km home because the ID card got lost and border control refused entry, hunt for kids who ignored instructions and sneaked off whilst waiting for a museum to open … all these have happened on trips myself or Madame have done. Cost to parents 150 -500e with subsidies for the poorest parents. Up to 111 kids on an international trip.

Or pay a school trip tour operator/activity centre/ski package organiser, give them the file of names and let them get on it with making sure they are responsible for as much as possible. Don’t worry about the cost, it’s the parents who pay, and if some can’t afford it that’s fewer to take. It’s the modern commercial world and money makes it go round.

We went to Alnham in Northumberland for a week, from Newcastle.

One of my mates got bitten by an adder.

We played football on a cow field.

We walked a lot.

The teachers got pissed in the evenings.

And that was a Private school.

I just went to band camp 😉

Edukator – good last point. 🙁

Am I the only one that’s surprised (nay, shocked *handwring*) at kids being told to “fundraise” to pay for their expensive school trips?

No mate, it stinks.

And you could buy a half-decent bike for £3k anyway!

I just went to band camp

So did eldest_oab.
Teh awesome Boys Brigade took them to army camp in Fife – a week practising with all the armed services cadet bands, followed by two public performances in Dundee and St Andrews.
What a fabulous week it was.
Total cost £55 for food…

Edit: the same year his school organised an orchestra trip to do two public performances. In Italy. They drove a full orchestra load of instruments across Europe in two vans, flew the kids out to 4* hotels, performed and toured a couple of small towns/cities and flew home. Costs started at £550 per child, subsidised by a years fundraising (parent council refused to say how subsidised it was), but by the time the trip went ahead, an additional £100 was added to cost and the evening meals dropped so kids to another £100odd in euros to pay for meals. 😐

Am I the only one that’s surprised (nay, shocked *handwring*) at kids being told to “fundraise” to pay for their expensive school trips?

……

What is the world coming to?

You sound horrified, should probably write to your local newspaper about it.

If the students want to go, and their usual source of income (parents) physically can’t help, then they’re given an opportunity to help themselves….like they will have to in a few years anyway.

The kids aren’t begging, they’re organising events, activities, services and other active ways of raising the money. They don’t wander around, door to door, with buckets. The trip itself is an end goal, it’s something to aim for. They’re learning the value of money, and it’s a tangible outcome.

We also run Young Enterprise at school, which, regrettably, is usually a right mess because they’re just raising money for the sake of it, they’re not invested in any outcome other than a certicate, so subsequently don’t care.

You sound horrified, should probably write to your local newspaper about it.

Very good idea, and it’s nice that you’re being so supportive. I’ll get some t-shirts printed and we can go and hand out flyers condemning this scourge at the local shopping centre. When would be a good time for you? 😀