Understanding computer processors?

Looking to pick up a refurbished laptop in Black Friday sales.

I’ve noticed most laptops with Intel processes are quoted as  i5/i7/i9 and a generation number (ie 8th generation).

As I understand it, an i9 is “better” than an i7 which is better than an i5, but the “better” processes are also more expensive. So far so good.. (?)

(A bit like Deore > SLX > XT > XTR?)

And I assume later generations are “better” than earlier generations. Correct? (Like 9 > 10 > 11 > 12 speed?)

But what do the other four digit codes mean? EG i5-8365?

If I’m looking at two similar laptops for similar prices with i7 8th generation but have different four letter codes, how can I determine which is better for my needs?

I don’t have specific examples of numbers or laptops yet as I’m trawling through hundreds on eBay and Amazon! I’m just trying to figure out whether to pay any attention to those numbers….

Could I assume, for instance, that a higher number is a “better” processor??

(Incidentally, it will mostly be for browsing and streaming 4k content but I want sufficient power to occasionally run stuff like Zwift or Photoshop. To use a cycling analogy, I’d probably be happy at “SLX level” of capability)

In reality, they are all good enough. An i7 might be faster than an i5 if you are encoding videos or gaming or something but for practical use it makes no difference.

The four numbers by the way are the model number and you can Google “i5-3840 vs i7 4550” for example, but these numbers are meaningless.  There are bottlenecks in any system, and these are not likely to be the CPU.  What’s far more important is the efficiency – later models are generally more efficient but there are likely to be innovations introduced in certain generations that make significant differences – but you will see this reflected in the battery lifetime scores.  If it says 8 hours you are unlikely to achieve that, but if one says 5 hours and another says 10 then you can reasonably assume that the 10hr one will last twice as long.

The other important factors are the screen quality, the general build quality, and (for me at least) the size of the trackpad and they feel of the keyboard.  Those things are hard to judge online of course.  You could pop down to Curry’s and even if you don’t buy one there you can see what things are like.  Oh and the type of storage – NVMe is faster than regular SSD and this will make a noticeable difference.

To continue the cycling analogy, you could be comparing the relative merits of XX01 and XTR on a carbon enduro bike when you just need to ride to work.  I run Zwift on an i7 laptop from 2011.

Wikipedia.

The generation is critical.

An i5 gen 12 will piss all over a 6th gen i7, for example.

If you factor in windows 11 support.. You need at least 8th gen regardless unless you want to try and get creative and hack it.

That’s why you have to be very careful about what you buy, if buying second hand or refurbished as quite often they will advertise ‘i7’ but it might be gen 4 or 5, and basically a piece of poop.

Stick the numbers into a cpu processor comparison site to see if there is much difference in  any you are looking at. As said an older i7 might not be as good as a newer i5, using your analogy it’s a bit like newer deore being better than a ten year old slx.

Also worth noting is the laptop varients of CPU are not the same as the ‘full fat’ desktop equivalents.. The laptop versions generally have a lower core count and a lower overall speed due to power /battery /heat constraints.

On the 4 digit codes, the first number is the generation, so “8xxx” will be an 8th gen processor. From 10th to 14th gen it’s a 5 digit code with the first 2 numbers being the generation. 15th gen is current and they’ve changed it, but that’s not your market anyways.

The definative intel resource is: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark.html#@PanelLabel122139

The specific 4/5 digit code is important when you’re fitting more that one CPU. Beyond that, what everyone else has already said.

…and unless you are doing really compute intensive things, an i9 is probably not required…

The first digit or two are the generation, so generally higher is better. After that you have the level (i3, i5, i7, etc.), then a code about the specific cpu package. Finally, there is a letter code, which is very important. An i7 cpu that ends in U (i.e. low power laptop) will probably be much slower than an i5 from the same generation ending in T (power-optimized desktop). Best thing to do is check out CPU benchmarks for the specific CPU, the CPU code itself will only give a very general guide.

K: Unlocked for overclocking
F: No integrated graphics
H: High-performance mobile processor
U: Ultra-low power (typically for laptops)
G: Includes Intel’s high-performance integrated graphics
T: Power-optimized for desktop PCs
S: Special edition or performance-optimized

Another problem with laptops is they are often thermally limited, so the CPU will run at full speed for 20 seconds or something (when you launch an app), then get throttled back as the temperature rises. A laptop with better cooling will perform better than one with the same CPU that is undercooled (but also be physically larger and maybe noisier). So you really need to search for the benchmarks for the specific laptops you are looking at and compare them, the CPU model numbers won’t tell you how it performs in the real world.

and unless you are doing really compute intensive things, an i9 is probably not required…

Indeed.. Especially in a laptop.. It will be thermal throttled so hard as to make it totally pointless anyway.

It would be like buying an Aston Martin to drive to the corner shop.. It’s just as fast as a 1.2l vauxhall corsa in that case.

Windows 11 is a must have so I’ll keep an eye out for 8th or newer generation.

Thanks for all the pointers…

8th gen is getting old in the tooth now.. personally, to maintain some longevity i’d be happier jumping forward to something like a 10th gen I5

yer sure an 8th gen i5/i7 will suffice.. but buy something a few years newer, and it will last a few years longer potentially

the exact model numbers i wouldn’t worry too much for a casual user

I’m disappointed this thread isn’t about microcode, branch prediction, extended instruction sets, vector processing units, RISC vs CISC, etc. I don’t understand any more about computer processors than when I opened it, and probably understand slightly less. I remember when the block drawing of an 8086/8 CPU architecture you could do on a white board was still a pretty accurate description of how a modern CPU fitted together…

f I’m looking at two similar laptops for similar prices with i7 8th generation but have different four letter codes, how can I determine which is better for my needs?

I don’t have specific examples of numbers or laptops yet as I’m trawling through hundreds on eBay and Amazon! I’m just trying to figure out whether to pay any attention to those numbers….

Could I assume, for instance, that a higher number is a “better” processor??

Personally, I’d look for something significantly newer than 8th gen, not necessarily that it’ll not do what you want, but that’s potentially a 6 or 7 year old laptop and how fast it’ll run will depend on how “refurbished” it is.  Might have been wiped down with a wet wipe and given a spritz of MrSheen to cover the scratches, but after a few years most laptops will benefit from being taken apart properly, the dust cleaned out of the inaccessible bits, and the CPU heat sink re-pasted.  I did mine after a couple of years with some mid-range paste and it went from the fan running on low all the time and noisy whilst working to the fan now only runs whilst gaming.

Could I assume, for instance, that a higher number is a “better” processor??

Yes, but unless you need more cores (if you have to ask, you probably don’t) then fewer cores is better because typically they’re faster.  Always go for a new-ish i5 over an older i7/i9.

The numbers are XXYYY, XX is the generation, YYY is the model. i3 has low model numbers i9 has the highest, so 7850 would be a 7th gen i9 (at a guess, I CBA googling) whereas 14100 would be 14th gen i3 (again guesswork).

(Incidentally, it will mostly be for browsing and streaming 4k content but I want sufficient power to occasionally run stuff like Zwift or Photoshop. To use a cycling analogy, I’d probably be happy at “SLX level” of capability)

The big step change in refurbished intel laptops will really be ~12th gen, that’s when they started to get the all-new integrated graphics (Xe-LP 770) which were lightyears ahead of the previous chips.  It’ll run basic Zwift at 60fps (which is likely all a laptops screen will do anyway) , whereas 8th gen google suggests 20fps which will look shuttery.

In cycling terms that’s the difference between 12speed GX and an 80s 12speed racer.

If you want to do Zwift with the graphics turned up a bit, look for any laptop with a GTX1650 or even RTX2060.  You didn’t give a budget but they’re getting relatively cheap now.  At the time people on the Zwift forums looked down on the 1650 because it didn’t make sense in a desktop , but even the laptop version will run Zwift at 1440 and ultra settings (but not ultimate which needs RTX series cards) and still the CPU will be the bottleneck in most systems.

high-performance integrated graphics

Where’s that “LOL” emoji? Intel invented integrated graphics like 30 years ago, and “high performance integrated graphics” is as much of an oxymoron today as it was back then. “Low cost” is what it is. Which, y’know, has its place, but let’s not call a spade a manually operated air-cooled earth redistribution device. 🙂

 “high performance integrated graphics” is as much of an oxymoron today as it was back then.

Best to read it as “highest performance integrated graphics.” It’s higher performing than the standard integrated graphics. Never going to perform as well as a proper dedicated video card, obviously.

It’s all come a long, long way from the times when I was having meetings with Intel and Digital Video Interactive.

The four numbers by the way are the model number and you can Google “i5-3840 vs i7 4550” for example, but these numbers are meaningless.

Anything but meaningless, in my opinion. Needs to start with an 8 to run Windows 11.

The four numbers by the way are the model number and you can Google “i5-3840 vs i7 4550” for example, but these numbers are meaningless.

They tell you a lot. I Googled benchmarks for my home and work machines, one is much, much faster than the other. Makes no difference for web browsing or word processing but anything CPU intensive, the difference is enormous. Benchmark results here:

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-10710U-vs-Intel-Core-i5-14500/m900004vsm2255984

They tell you a lot. I Googled benchmarks for my home and work machines, one is much, much faster than the other. Makes no difference for web browsing or word processing but anything CPU intensive, the difference is enormous. Benchmark results here:

But can it run Crysis?

Did anyone else open this hoping it would be about transistors and stuff?

@thols2 don’t use userbenchmark, it’s utter crap, you might as well ask people’s opinions on here.

don’t use userbenchmark, it’s utter crap

That would be solid advice if you suggested an alternative.

Like, just about any other site?

One that’s not composed entirely of subjective reviews.

Google is our friend, append with Reddit and it’s not hard to quickly find out why userbenchmark is shite and what reasonable alternatives are.

Hell, if you need a specific benchmark just Google ‘benchmark [your chip] [your application]’. That way you’re not going to get told a chip is only worth a 9% score because it’s utter dogshit at playing Cyberpunk but actually flies for everything you would throw at it.

See also my first answer to this topic.

I’ve seen this Acer Aspire 5 refurbished (by Acer themselves). Comes with a 30 day free return policy and a 2 year warranty.

Core i5-12450H 2.0Ghz processor (so 12th Generation but I don’t think the XE-LP 770 graphics mentioned by @thisisnotaspoon)

8GB Ram/512GB SSS/Windows 11 Home/15.6″ FHD display

Cost ~£330

Is this a reasonable price and is there anything obviously “missing” from the spec (from connectivity point of view) which would impact longevity?

Intel says that the 1245H is 8 cores, not the 10 in the Acer overview^^ https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/132222/intel-core-i512450h-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz/specifications.html

This laptop is similarly priced (£329), new with 2-year warranty and 10 core CPU https://www.johnlewis.com/asus-vivobook-15-laptop-intel-core-i5-processor-8gb-ram-512gb-ssd-15-6-inch-full-hd-silver/p111268563. It has plenty of USB ports (2xA and 2xC) as well

The GPU is Intel® Iris® Xe Graphics eligible (v Intel® UHD Graphics). The CPU is 12th Gen and a step down, but the GPU is a step up (I think?) https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/226261/intel-core-i51235u-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz/specifications.html

IANAE, not in the least, but hopefully more experienced people can give you a comparison

If I was spending that money this is what I’d be looking at:

https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/refurbished-lenovo-thinkpad-t14-core-i5-10th-gen-16gb-256gb-14-inch-windows-t1-t14i516gb256gbw10p/version.asp

They have plenty of 15″ ones cheaper but they’re earlier 8th or 6th gen chips. I have a T14 for work and honestly it’s a great laptop. I should caveat that I almost exclusively use it plugged into a monitor but it handles 3440×1440 with multiple desktops just fine.

Storage is cheap, a bigger M.2 drive shouldn’t cost much if you need it.

don’t use userbenchmark, it’s utter crap

The point was that you can Google the CPU model numbers and get comparative information about them, not that people should use any specific site. If you’re buying a laptop, you really need to get benchmark results for that specific model because the performance of the same CPU might vary a lot between different laptops.

My computer is about 9 years old and does everything i need. Most games are fine, all vid, all surfing etc.

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 4th gen

8gb ram

Geforce GTX960

I’ve never had issue to complain, and its probably like deore/slx/st/str all will work