UK Government Thread

Oh yes.. I forgot about the free internet for everyone unicorn, hahah!

You don’t think having universal high speed internet is important in this day and age? Funny how immediately after 2019 we were suddenly in a world where working from home was required and the communications network was found to be wholly inadequate. Bang for buck the free internet policy would have been the most cost-effective investment to the country’s infrastructure that we’ve ever seen and would have provided a significant economic stimulus through higher productivity and innovation. Lets not bother with all that new-fangled technology though eh? Here in the UK we do everything the old way.

meftyFree Member
That our economy is now smaller by a considerable margin than it was (taking a year completely at random) than say 2016 for example
At the end of 2023 our economy was just under 8% bigger than it was in 2016.

Its how the economy (or GDP)  is distributed that is the issue,

it’s all very well saying that the economy is “x%” increased but if it goes into the hands of business’s or individuals that can obfuscate for tax purposes then it means sod all

You don’t think having universal high speed internet is important in this day and age?

Last reply this evening, I promise!

A) yes but B…

B) Who’s going to pay for all the ongoing infrastructure maintenence and the built in technical debt? raise income tax for everyone by a few percent, including those who already pay £25 per month for internet?

lol, re you really claiming that “technical debt” for high speed internet would raise taxes by a few percent. By that maths the technical debt of all state projects and infrastructure should increase tax by about 1000%

Anyway, has any one got a “loony far left” policy yet, we have had two attempts and 2 failures so far.

Anyway, has any one got a “loony far left” policy yet, we have had two attempts and 2 failures so far.

Abandoning austerity?

raise income tax for everyone by a few percent

Labour’s costings for the policy in 2019 were approx 20bn. That was to be spent over 10 years. Of course you wouldn’t have to raise such a paltry sum by raising taxes because you’d do what Rachel Reeves is about to do an ‘borrow’ it, but even if you did, some quick chatgpting suggest the rate of tax would have to increase by around 0.2% over 10 years.

including those who already pay £25 per month for internet?

You do realise it was ‘free’ broadband? As in end users wouldn’t have to pay it. For many £25 a month would be more than the extra income tax they would have to pay. It’s a no-brainer.

Yup. And geographically redistributive. The areas that need improved connectivity the most are those away from centres of wealth. A sound policy. It was good for business, good for the economy. But voters didn’t get it. Partly because it was being explained by politicans that didn’t get it! And it was part of the “new nationalisation every morning” policy rollout in 2019… sure, that energised voter turnout… but in both positive and negative ways for Labour.

This is a surprisingly inactive thread, considering the topic, no activity for over a week!

Anyway I found this quite interesting:

 

Sir Keir Starmer’s approval rating has collapsed more significantly after winning an election than any other prime minister in modern history, a new poll has shown.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-polling-approval-ratings-b2637357.html

Following the July election, which saw the Labour Party win a landslide majority of 174 seats, the prime minister approval rating reached a high of plus 11.

But by October, just days before Rachel Reeves’ Budget on Wednesday, new polling from More in Common showed that the prime minister’s personal approval rating has fallen to -38 – a net drop of 49 points.

Sir Tony Blair’s approval rating was at plus 46 in August 1997, three months after he won a landslide election victory. At the time of the election, his approval rating stood at plus 60.

I wonder how long the PLP will give Starmer before they decide to replace him and hopefully avert a Tory-Reform coalition government next general election.

I wonder how long the PLP will give Starmer before they decide to replace him and hopefully avert a Tory-Reform coalition government next general election.

Possibly looking at a by-election in my constituency of Runcorn & Helsby if Mike Amesbury has to stand down. Reform came second so could well win which would pile the pressure on Starmer.

I will bet 50p that Starmer doesn’t get replaced by the PLP. Starmer’s fall has been precipitous but I think the days of PMs having long periods of positive ratings are gone. I think you could appoint David Attenborough as PM and within weeks/months he’d be the most hated man in the UK.  Folks are just in that mood at the minute I think.

but I think the days of PMs having long periods of positive ratings are gone.

I take it that you didn’t bother to read the article.

This is a surprisingly inactive thread, considering the topic, no activity for over a week!

I think everyone is waiting for the budget now, lets see what happens, I don’t hold out much hope, but you never know. By the end of tomorrow we will see if we have a labour government in just name or if we have a labour government with some labour values.

think you could appoint David Attenborough as PM and within weeks/months he’d be the most hated man in the UK. Folks are just in that mood at the minute I think.

We keep telling these stupid hogs that things can never get better, all we can do is take away their cigarettes and tell them they need weight loss jabs, and for some reason they don’t like us…

I think you could appoint David Attenborough as PM and within weeks/months he’d be the most hated man in the UK.

That would depend on the media response to him. If he didn’t align himself with any political party he might be left to get on with it for a tad longer, who knows.

Entirely unsurprised by the last few months of shifting goalposts for politicians now that Labour are in government. Not surprised that public sentiment has been moved so successfully by that endeavour by the press & media either. Those that painted these current Labour MPs as “the establishment” tend to be the same ones revelling in the press and wider establishment media gunning for them for successfully.

According to the pollster :

Mr Tryl blamed two key issues for the change in approval ratings, explaining: “If you ask what people have noticed, by a country mile it is the decision on the winter fuel allowance and the early release of prisoners.”

 

He also pointed to the row over freebies and donations.

I am not sure how the press and wider  media are responsible for that, beyond their roles as news providers and reporting it.

I am not sure how the press and wider  media are responsible for that, beyond their roles as news providers and reporting it.

well you are correct that the policies and actions are those of the politicians not the media but the relative attention of the media on any particular topic is a conscious decision, they pick the headlines, they pick the emphasis, they can decide if a story like winter fuel is a weekend of pain or weeks of regurgitation of the same story.  They can chose if they present it as robbing from pensioners or rebalancing the fact that the wealthiest pensioners already got the best inflation boost of anyone etc.  Now of course the government and their spin doctors can do the same but the editors carry a lot of power in how the public hear and absorb these stories.  Same for prisons – starmer letting them out v tories over filled them.

Actually, what I think has been a PR shambles for them is the budget speculation: it seems everyone, of every political interest and none is expecting pain in the budget.  Nobody is talking about any potential upsides.  And it has been like that for two months now.  That’s a lot of negative sentiment.

but the editors carry a lot of power in how the public hear and absorb these stories.

Yep, the reason much of the time that papers like the Sunday Times are able to report that MPs are taking freebies, is that they, along with Sky News, the BBC ITN etc invited them in the first place.  It’s a pretty cheap way to make sure you’ve a story tucked away for a rainy day

There is no incentive for corporations to supply super high speed broadband to everyone, this was recognised in the USA and they attempted to pay corporations to do it and they got bugger all in exchange:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-book-of-broken-promis_b_5839394

The sensible answer is view access to the internet as a standard utility and nationalise it.

The UK is currently rated ~50th for broadband speeds in the world, which is pretty poor considering the size of our economy and our population density.

The whole PLP were complicit in the election strategy of “the Tories are doing so bad in the polls we don’t actually have to show our hand to get elected”, so they aren’t going to ditch Starmer now that the electorate are starting to see what he actually stands for and seemingly don’t like it.

If you ask what people have noticed, by a country mile it is the decision on the winter fuel allowance and the early release of prisoners

The early release of prisoners that the Tory government was preparing for?

Yeah,  right.

What they have noticed is what the right wing rags, and those that take their lead in other media, have focused on. Freeing up space in overstretched prisons is pretty easy to understand, if presented at face value, but even easier to turn into fun “news” stories with pictures of one or two prisoners being picked up in rented Bentleys etc. On winter fuel payments… all pensioners will be still better off this winter… and it’s time to stop handouts to richer pensioners and crack on with repairing children’s services… but painting the change as “bashing poor pensioners”, is easy. And all the campaign clothes stuff etc… past leaders (when not Labour) have their wives praised for wearing top end designer outfits given or lent to them… “supporting British fashion”, but of course you should never expect the papers and wider media to do anything other than paint the wives of Labour leaders as freeloaders if doing something similar. It’s not just “reporting the news”, the decisions made on the focus and style of reporting is key. Would any other Labour leader have got an easier ride in the first year? Of course not, Miliband, Corbyn and Brown would have been mercilessly pursued if they’d won an election… and in all three cases probably more so… but no one should go painting the British media as being even handed here, they are not, they are anti-Labour and double standards and moving goalposts have been plentiful in their coverage since the election.

but of course you should never expect the papers and wider media to do anything other than paint the wives of Labour leaders as freeloaders if doing something similar.

But Keir Starmer himself has said that it was a mistake and that he won’t be doing it again in the future.

Whose fault is that………the far-right/far-left BBC?

Better to apologize then to complain of double standards in the press, pretty simple PR there.

Yeah but it was wrong, wasn’t it?

Giving some geezer a free Downing Street pass after he’s bought you a suit and a pair of prescription glasses – whilst you are earning megabucks yourself?!?

This is a surprisingly inactive thread, considering the topic, no activity for over a week

I just feel everything they do is **** dreadful, and personally it’s burning me out a little thinking about how bad they are.

Everything they do seems miscalculated, irresponsible and needless.

I’m already very tired of seeing Starmer announce random brainless nuggets simply leading me to believe they haven’t got a clue what they’re doing. (The bus cap another in a long line of ridiculously stupid ideas.)

The black-hole hysteria has simply sowed the seeds of bad economic policy founded in a total misrepresentation of the government’s capacity to spend.

I just can’t imagine how bad the budget is going to be..

Honestly, fabricated black-holes, arbitrary fiscal rules and wet dream subservience to the markets (markets that the damn government enables) – has destroyed Labour’s purpose.

None of this was necessary.

**** adults in the room.  Good Christ.

Giving some geezer a free Downing Street pass

That “geezer” is a Labour politician of much longer standing than the party leader, doing anything he can to help the campaign.

There seems to be no end of rage to be made from comparing justice process and outcomes. People getting less for doing worse, people getting fast tracked for doing things perceived as less serious while victims of more serious things await justice while perpetrators still free.

Released prisoners, Southport attacker, Huw Edwards, Manchester Airport attack involving police, Chris Kaba police officer, people who said things on social media during the asylum riots, people on side 1 vs side 2 of the asylum riots, Tommy Robinson, farmer who took yobs to the police on his quad bike, climate protestors…

It’s an interesting point on the role newspapers play in driving perception, this one caught my eye late last night for instance. It’s today’s headline.

Ostensibly it’s not saying much that any reasonable person should be surprised about. Did anyone think the NHS (and all the associated issues that cause bed blocking etc) would be cured after the budget? However, look at the wording…

Budget still won’t cure the NHS

and

despite huge handout tomorrow

So…

The headline is representing a genuine attempt to improve the NHS as a “handout” and that the handout wont be enough anyway.

Now…

Its asking it’s readers to bemoan the funds going to the NHS, indeed, calling them a “handout”, just like those ‘orrid people on benefits get whilst simultaneously saying it’s not enough of a handout anyway.

Schrödinger’s handout it seems. 🙂

It’s probably fair to say that the age demographic of The Mail means their readership is likely to be heavily dependant upon a functioning NHS but in one headline, on one single day, it has likely achieved what it wanted, which was to portray Labour trying to repair a flailing NHS as apparently against the readers interest… and it’s readers will lap it up of course.

It’s nothing new of course but it’s important to see it for what it is. If even trying to properly fund the NHS can be portrayed as a negative then basically anything Labour do will be criticised. As always there are very powerful, vested interests at play here and if you were ever unsure of why Labour kept it’s cards close to it’s chest during the election campaign, just look at this one, single headline. Then remember it and similar rags will be pumping this out, day in, day out.

As for the budget and Labour in general?

I remain optimistic about Labour but also realistic. I won’t like all their policies and it’s going to take time for things to objectively improve.

I just feel everything they do is **** dreadful, and personally it’s burning me out a little thinking about how bad they are.

Yep, they are worse than I thought they would be and not giving them much benefit of doubt before them winning was about right.
Another good example is bus fare cap. Okay an extension was not budgeted apparently but the thing that actually matters is what sort of people use buses who actually pay for them? I would guess the poorer people in society rather than the richer in society so why not leave them at £2. That person on mininum wage who gets the bus to work every day could be paying £500 more a year which offsets their minimum wage increase (although the minimum wage increase is a positive)

Good morning kerley and please don’t take this as a personal dig in any shape or form, it honestly isn’t, your post just got me thinking as I’m sat here.

I think the problem you are faced with is that the party you want was never on the ballot paper. If it was, it would have got my vote too. Is that a failing of Labour or even the UK political system? Possibly, but it’s the reality we live in so it’s the only reality that matters.

Everything they do seems miscalculated, irresponsible and needless

This +loads

They’ve had years to think things through, prepare policies, tell Parliament and launch policies with proper publicity, but we have problem after problem

I get that the riots wrong-footed prison reform, but that was the only uncontrollable and unforeseeable occurrence

I think the problem you are faced with is that the party you want was never on the ballot paper.

Yes, I would imagine the party that each person wants is never on the ballot paper and it is a compromise. That doesn’t mean I cannot criticise the things the party (that I voted for) are doing does it?

They are doing stupid things that really didn’t need doing. Yes review WFA, get all people claiming correctly etc,. but it was not an emergency to scrap it this year. Why put up bus fares when typically poorer people use buses who it is going to hit harder, again no emergency to do so was there.

The vibe they are giving out (as a Labour Party) is pretty awful.

Kerley

That doesn’t mean I cannot criticise the things the party (that I voted for) are doing does it?

Lord no and apologies if my post came across that way.

It’s an interesting point on the role newspapers play in driving perception, this one caught my eye late last night for instance

Yeah, but free Halloween sweets from M&S!

Yeah, but free Halloween sweets from M&S!

Let’s face it, the average Mail reader wouldn’t pay for them, they also wont be given away to kids either.

Kids, bloody freeloaders. 😉

I foresee further inflation.

I also foresee her as one term Chancellor.

Budget for economy growth?  That is something rather difficult to comprehend nowadays or foreseeable future. .

I foresee further inflation.

You know inflation never stops right?

Right?

I remain optimistic about Labour but also realistic. I won’t like all their policies and it’s going to take time for things to objectively improve.

This, for me.

You know inflation never stops right?

Right?

Yes and No.   Perhaps a better way is to say how high inflation has gone since last 5 years..

That “geezer” is a Labour politician of much longer standing than the party leader, doing anything he can to help the campaign.

Not the point. Was he elected? No. Is he security cleared? No. Has he paid an enormous sum of money which some would argue might allow influence over the party and the Prime Minister? Well, yes.