UK Government Thread

Time away when you get into the posting/mental health spiral is wise, but doesn’t need to be a permanent thing. The forum would be a worse place without jonv, he’s been a voice of reason on many issues in the past.

Maybe we need a posting limit, per thread/day or something.

Surely best answer is don’t invest too much personality into the discussion that you’d be bothered if someone says something you don’t like.

It’s so simple to just put your phone down and deal with all the real stuff going on around you.

Forum discussion is optional and way too ad-hoc to be bothered about too much.

It’s nice to kick ideas about and challenge stuff  – and read others opinions, try and make sense of stuff.

That’s about it. Dib in dib out.

Real life – as in visiting hospitals and dealing with money is so much more challenging.

And ultimately I’m more bothered about Labour making material changes than I am a discussion about it.

Dunno but that’s my way of dealing with it. Like many, 2024 has been terrible for me but sharing with the internet would accentuate it rather than help fix it.

It’s handy to have some limits where you sign off.

But everyone’s different.

I’m really trying so I’ve reported my post and asked the Mods to ban me, until my subscription lapses anyway.

So we’re back to flouncing because people disagree with you? The problem is that all your posts come across as ‘I’m too clever to talk to you’ or ‘don’t you know who I am’? Posting your LI profile only exacerbates that. You may well have a lifetime of professional and academic experience in some of these matters but don’t expect the respect you garner in professional circles to count for anything here. This is an internet forum, not a professional forum or serious thing where you will be held to account for anything. People here don’t care who you are or what you do, and they can respond to your posts in whatever way they like as long as they don’t break the forum rules. Instead though you expect everyone to defer to you because that’s what they probably do IRL. Think of this place as a leveller and then accept that you’re no more important than anyone else, and you might start to have a bit of fun or amusement, which ATEOTD is all that this place is for.

Employment – cyber security

Drives – Nissan Navara (baby Robin killer) but I do live in the sticks..

My God man.

You. Are. A. Monster!!

Audi know where you live. They*will* find you and they*will* kill you.

Audi know where you live. They*will* find you and they*will* kill you.

Without prior warning, certainly without any prior indication!

rone
Full Member
Surely best answer is don’t invest too much personality into the discussion that you’d be bothered if someone says something you don’t like.

It’s so simple to just put your phone down and deal with all the real stuff going on around you.

Forum discussion is optional and way too ad-hoc to be bothered about too much.

Just quoting you as it’s a handy segue.

The thing is, we all handle life in different ways and the same applies to the little extensions of our lives that play out on STW. Most members on here can probably shrug off the more heated exchanges but not everyone can.

Add in the red mist of, “but I’m right, you aren’t!” and it’s easy to get sucked into a discussion even when your logical brain says walk away.

We also dont know what’s going on in most members personal lives. We cant just assume that because someone decides that posting personal stuff on here is not for them that they aren’t facing challenging circumstances in the real world. I tend to back away from the forum on my bad days as I know it can creep into my posting on here.

The inherent issue with the political threads is that they often cross an ever moving line where it becomes all about winning the argument and the actual point of contention becomes a side issue. The problem is, everyone reaches that point at a different time or dont even realise they’ve crossed that line.

I’m not pointing fingers at anyone, I’m guilty off all this too.

Nice idea Oldman but I’ve posted much more info than that already and I’m sure everyone is sooo interested in what I post they’ve retained every bit of it. I’ll be soo disappointe if they haven’t.

Anyhow, the governement, 10 000 more kids have fallen into poverty under Labour thanks to the 2-child cap says a Guardian title. ****.

Most members on here can probably shrug off the more heated exchanges but not everyone can.

Maybe I’ve got an iron mental shield or something but I don’t think I’ve ever been affected by anything anyone has ever posted on here about me or something I’ve said. I exchange opinions (some quite strong) regularly on here with people like binners, TJ, nickc and a few others who I have met IRL or know quite well and funnilly enough what we say on here never comes up in real conversations. What’s said on the forum, stays on the forum is probably a good rule to live by. I’m pretty sure most people who know me IRL would agree I’m very different to what I’m like on here (I’m far more polite and easy going than my internet persona of ‘argumentative tw*t with a chip on his shoulder’) so no one should take anything too seriously.

We also dont know what’s going on in most members personal lives. We cant just assume that because someone decides that posting personal stuff on here is not for them that they aren’t facing challenging circumstances in the real world.

We have absolutely no way of knowing accurately about anyone on here.  Someone could be a trooper on here but having melt-down in real life. There is no practical solution other than forum rules, and even then people add their spin to the rules.

I’m not one to push personal responsibilty Tory-style too much (the world is too hard for that) but ultimately if you join in a discussion chances are you’re going to get some kick  back at some point.

How on earth would we police what we say based on how it might throw someone we don’t know?

Anyhow, the governement, 10 000 more kids have fallen into poverty under Labour thanks to the 2-child cap says a Guardian title. ****.

Yeah. Material conditions again – in the face of doing something.

Labour all over. There’s gonna be loads more of this.  Labour didn’t inheret terrible government finances like they say- (that’s technically impossible because they can do all the fiscal they need to from a default position – remember other than inflation, things are arbitrary)  but they did inheret dire economic and real-world circumstances of many of the country.

So we’re back to flouncing because people disagree with you?

Hey, no need for the aggressive response. It is clear that Jonv gets genuinely upset when people challenge him, or don’t answer his questions. No I don’t understand it either but I don’t know what’s going on in his life, the only thing that seems certain to me is that it is genuine.

I agree with others that a short time away might recalibrate priorities/put a better perspective on things. Jonv has been posting on stw for as long as I can remember, it is only in about the last month or so that I have noticed this apparent hypersensitivity, never before, which suggests that something might be out of kilter.

Hopefully a break away will help. He seems to feel that it will.

Back on topic, the most significant takeaway from the Sue Gray debacle for me is that all the claims on here and elsewhere that the one thing we could all be absolutely sure of was that Starmer is an extremely competent and experienced manager and leader. Given all the reports of the dysfunctionality of the No 10 operation from infighting between advisors to ministers not having clear direction on what the PM wanted, the assumption of managerial competency seems very far from the reality. We appear to have a PM who is politically naive, operationally incompetent and economically illiterate. It’s like a holy trinity of uselessness. 🙂

It’s interesting – because Starmer came loaded with amazing character traits that he was all these things.

Based on what?

They should have done the budget earlier like i was saying a while back – this was the first mistake. To drip-drop random economic ideas with a bit of fag chaos in the middle set the alarm bells ringing.

TalkTV and GBnews have overloaded recently – not to mention Tommy Robinson’s so-called announcement on the 26th. I thought Starmer was courting the ‘right’.

We appear to have a PM who is politically naive, operationally incompetent and economically illiterate. It’s like a holy trinity of uselessness. 🙂

But he has only been PM for n months.  Give it another year or so and he will be none of those things, unless he still is (which he will be)

Thread has died now that jonv is no longer here. :-/ Funny isn’t it how people complain of petty bickering but then when it stops you get no posts about the actual subject. It’s almost like forum threads aren’t here to be serious places of discussion.

Anyway, I note in the news today there are reports that McSweeney is going to be ‘radical’ in his shake up of govt. Kind of ironic that we now have a labour version of Boris and Dom. I suspect it’ll end the same way. I hope McSweeney got some savings, I give him less than a year.

that we now have a labour version of Boris and Dom.

The same thought occurred to me when I read the headlines this morning.

Thread next stop Budget, and finding the magic 57bn. Sorely needed.

I suspect and hope that with the battering Labour are getting they will find it.

Unless Reeves is totally wedded to the dark side.

https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1843536642445062622

So, 100 days of incoherence, wasted political capital, and now a sacrificial lamb. I hadn’t expected a huge amount, but this…

ernielynch
Full Member
https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1843536642445062622

That has to be pretty good news for labour?

Thread has died

Maybe those previous supporters/apologists for Starmers poor decisions have realised that they backed the wrong horse unless they are just waiting to come back to thread in 3 years time to say I told you so after Starmer has emerged as a progressive hero.

Maybe those previous supporters/apologists for Starmers poor decisions have realised that they backed the wrong horse

Maybe people – disappointed with Starmer or not – are fed up of posters coming on with that kind of constant whining to show how edgy they are

Maybe it’s just not worth engaging with a powerful clique?

Isn’t whinig to come across as edgy a bit of an oxymoron?

Maybe those previous supporters/apologists for Starmers poor decisions have realised that they backed the wrong horse unless they are just waiting to come back to thread in 3 years time to say I told you so after Starmer has emerged as a progressive hero.

I’ve not noticed much issues in the way they’ve governed, some positives in terms of updates to policies, some negatives on what i would like to see, but then, i’m not seeing behind the curtain on why these changes aren’t being made.

Overall, pretty steady, nothing amazing, but neither anything horrific.

Isn’t whinig to come across as edgy a bit of an oxymoron?

Certainly moronic. Wink emoji

I’ve not noticed much issues in the way they’ve governed, some positives in terms of updates to policies, some negatives on what i would like to see, but then, i’m not seeing behind the curtain on why these changes aren’t being made.

Overall, pretty steady, nothing amazing, but neither anything horrific.

My view as well – some obvious gaffes, some disappointments, some unexpected progress in other areas. With my civil service hat on, more stable and responsible feel to what filters down here to the shop floor.

The budget will determine whether disappointment outweighs the progress. Show me the details, not soundbites floated via the media.

Anyway – I said I was done here and then like an addict I came back.

I’m really trying so I’ve reported my post and asked the Mods to ban me, until my subscription lapses anyway. Getting into arguments like this is affecting my mental health – or maybe my mental health is getting me into these arguments (Poopscoop, dead right) and what I’m getting from this place now isn’t worth the effort.

I’m sure you’ll be back to say I’ve said it already, hence the need to ask for the ban. To those that have helped over the years; thanks. I apologise to anyone I’ve annoyed, particularly recently.

This makes me profoundly sad. 🙁

That has to be pretty good news for labour?

Yup, let’s hope that Labour maintain a lead after the Tories after they have finally elected their new leader.

This makes me profoundly sad. 🙁

The celebratory tone of some of the posts on this page as a result makes me feel pretty angry and sad too, if I’m honest.

Maybe those previous supporters/apologists for Starmers poor decisions have realised that they backed the wrong horse

im sure they deeply regret not voting for rishi sunak /s

I am sure they don’t but that doesn’t mean who they have voted for is a bit of a disappointment. I wanted Labour to be in power but I can at least admit to seeing they are not exactly doing a great job and other than not being not massive **** not really making a lot of difference.

Let’s take the winter fuel payment that has come back up in the news, a decent government would firstly setup drop in centres for older people to walk into and get a quick assessment of whether they could claim more benefits and if it looks like they could they could be walked though how to do it. Once that is done and people who are rightfully entitled to benefits are getting them then withdraw the winter fuel payment. The money would be about even but the right people would be getting it.

Not difficult to do stuff properly and with compassion is it…

Its not the thread that’s the issue it’s damned government.

Trying to pretend it’s all going just okay is just simply ignoring reality. And if you think it’s going okay you were probably one of the folks that did alright under the Tories which is why you’re picking through the scraps of nothingness now.

Acid Test – if the Tories had done any of these dope arse things would you have been critical?  Come on – be honest. That would cover about 75% of you.

It’s a fail as a start of government.

Basically it’s just a matter of time until a consensus forms on a government and it’s going to take some serious budget magic tricks to over turn that.

The budget is making its way through another failing Tory institution – the OBR now (it’s forecasting record is a sham) Don’t ya just love all those undemocratic checks and balances that don’t work in your favour?

Last time I checked there were at least 5 prominent financial institutions all commenting on how the budget should pan out.

They’re all unnecessary in terms of benefit to the wider well-being of society.

We don’t need more institutions telling us to spend less because of some messed up monetarist nonsense.

The winter fuel payment will come back to bite them time and time again.

Economically it was ridiculous. It doesn’t ‘save’ much in reality because it’s impossible to save money as opposed to just reduce a paper budget. But in the real world is that’s less money in the economy.

That is the opposite of growth.

Also to do it as part of an unstructured official budget was political suicide and awful timing.

Basically there was no need.

Not to mention just randomly attacking a certain group of people was just terrible.

No blinkers here.

TBH, the thing I’m most surprised about is Starmer’s apparent lack of political nous.

Take the freebies. His indulgences will always pale into insignificance next to rampant, end of times Tories having one last fill of the pockets. Rules-wise, Starmer has done nothing wrong. To political wonks, it is a series of nothings. But the majority of the electorate do not take an active interest in politics – they hear “they’re all the same” and believe it.

For Starmer not to realise this smacks of a naivety that I didn’t think we would see. Does he not understand the dangers of a disillusioned electorate?

The cynicism that the likes of McSweeney (aka Dom Cum’s leftie cousin) will bring will not help at all.

Starmer has burned way more political capital than he would have if he’d been a tiny bit more savvy. For me, it is too early by far to tell in terms of real-world effects. But for a country that seems to, in large part, do politics as soap opera, his gaffes so far have been eye-rollingly stupid.

The celebratory tone

Think you’ve imagined that. No one wanted or forced jonv to flounce, he did it all on his own. I still don’t really know why to be honest, but if you’re going to set yourself up as the arbiter of truth on a thread that is inherently about opinions and political gossip then you’re probably going to get a lot of push back.

Back on topic, I see now that Reeves has seen the light and decided to change the fiscal rules to remove her self-imposed straitjacket, the tory press and financial establishment are starting to talk up the prospect of the markets reacting negatively. Not really a surprise really, and another result of Starmer and Reeves political naivety. Had they declared their intentions from the outset and held an early budget to implement it all no one would have batted an eyelid, but now after chaos in Downing St and various u-turns at the treasury it looks like it’s going to be the next problem for Starmer. They really don’t know what they’re doing do they?

The Sue Gray move disappointed me a little, it just harks back to how the media have ruled the government over the last generation or two by making stories out of very little and then having the government change due to perceived opinion. Should anyone care that Sue Gray earned more than the PM, if she’s worth the money then why care, there are literally hundreds of civil servants earning more than the PM, but that’s not the story, it’s because it’s Sue Gray, and now she’ll just go somewhere else out of sight, earn the same and be less effective.

This is why the whole public opinion thing is an annoyance for me, it’s running a country, not x factor, same with the budget, it’s about what’s best for the country as a whole, not what is palatable by the public, or whatever negativity the media can muster around it.

As for the winter fuel allowance, honestly, it’s just an allowance that should have been better controlled for a long time, the current generation are being forced to save more for their retirement and being made to wait longer to take it, yet some folk want them to continue to subsidise the current pensioners even more, no matter if they’re millionaires or not!

Think you’ve imagined that.

Obviously.

No one wanted or forced jonv to flounce, he did it all on his own.

Of course he did.

Even using the word ‘flounce’ to describe jonv’s last post is telling. I’d suggest re-reading it and trying to apply the word ‘flounce’ to it without feeling a bit grubby.

But, in any case, if certain folk are happy with how things have panned out then there’s very little else to say.

But in the real world is that’s less money in the economy.

It’s a real worry for companies selling cruises.

Deliberately flippant. My mum is one of those not on pension credits, and she hasn’t been on holiday in this century.

But it’s time to tax rich pensioners more. Stopping a universal hand out for pensioners is just the start of it. Yes, that one “hits” more than just the richest pensioners, but no one losing the WFP is really worse off as the state pension is increasing faster than the earnings of our youngest workers. What all those pensioners need is a working NHS, and that means paying staff properly. The right decision, poor communication. You can’t leave it to journalists to explain this stuff, they want their elderly audience to stay engaged… stay angry… keep reading/clicking/listening.

And don’t give us the “taxes don’t pay for stuff” line, spending without considering taxation isn’t an option in the real world.

But, in any case, if certain folk are happy

Who’s happy? Certainly not me, I welcome all posts and discussion unlike many others here who always want to shut other people down or prevent any sort of debate or disagreement. The more disagreement the better as far as I’m concerned.

 They really don’t know what they’re doing do they?

I think they’re damned if they do, six of the other. Reeves manifesto pledges were; 1. day to day spending matched by tax receipts, this she’s sticking too despite it being reasonably hard in the current climate, and 2 debt falling as share of the economy, which is where all politicians can eff about as “define debt” becomes the catch. I think both Tories and Labour were looking at the same wiggle room pre-election, and are spinning it to meet their own needs.

The risk of the Truss-alike market reaction is partly why Reeves is treading carefully I think, but the current fiscal rules look to be discreated by just about everyone, and that a bit of headroom to boost investment is now seen as sensible.  I can imagine however that post budget headlines of “Runaway Inflation Fears” and “Interest Rates Set to Soar” from the usual suspects are probably keeping her awake.