UK Government Thread

Zero hours contracts are an interesting one.  I have worked on a zero hours contract because that is what I wanted – bank and agency nurse.  A pal of mine works on a zero hours contract.  Supply teacher  again her choice freely made.

Its actually quite hard to get rid of the abusive zero hours contracts without getting rid of the ones that folk like me want

Yeah I’m not sure exactly how it will work, they are saying there will be an opt-out as there are circumstances where it suits people, as you say…

I guess it will operate a bit like the opt-out of the 48hr per week EU working time regulations?

The only thing that can stop Netanyahu is withdrawal of US support. That’s literally it.

I guess it will operate a bit like the opt-out of the 48hr per week EU working time regulations?

In which case its completely useless especially as folk think they can opt out of all the WTD stuff which they cannot

Vote on two-child benefit cap to be held this evening, paving way for Starmer to face first potential Commons rebellion
The SNP’s king’s speech amendment calling for the two-child benefit cap to be scrapped has been selected for a vote by speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle, paving the way for a Commons vote on Tuesday evening.

The vote could see the first possible rebellion in the Commons for Keir Starmer as prime minister as MPs from across the party have called for the cap to be scrapped.

Former shadow chancellor John McDonnell said earlier that he will be voting for the SNP amendment.

first test of Starmers authority.  good on the SNP for doing this tho its plainly a bit of party politics looking to the holyrood election.  Its all about making the Red tories / two cheeks of the same arse stick

50+ rebellion is my guess

Edited to reduce the prediction

The only thing that can stop Netanyahu is withdrawal of US support. That’s literally it.

You’re probably right, but withdrawing US support will also be the thing that ends Israel as a state, and would break at least 2 treaties of the top of my head

its plainly a bit of party politics looking to the holyrood election

The SNP already have the seats at Holyrood to compensate larger families for the effects of the cap by topping up their payments…  and with the language being used, I honestly thought they already were… but a quick search suggests otherwise. Anyone know for sure?

No idea how big the “Rebellion” will be. Still think policy in this area will change next year in some form.

You’re probably right, but withdrawing US support will also be the thing that ends Israel as a state, and would break at least 2 treaties of the top of my head

Not if Isreal agrees a one secuilar state or a decent two state solution based on the 67 borders and given how much illegality Isreal is guilty of……..

first test of Starmers authority.  good on the SNP for doing this tho its plainly a bit of party politics looking to the holyrood election.  Its all about making the Red tories / two cheeks of the same arse stick

Great! We’re 3 weeks into getting rid of the Tories after 14 years and the SNP are point scoring and trying to undermine the government, who they probably agree with 90% of policy with

So there’s you’re argument against proportional representation, right there

Sixth form level politics in action.

Rebellion of 7 following a 3 line whip and threat of removal of the whip

The SNP already have the seats at Holyrood to compensate larger families for the effects of the cap by topping up their payments…  and with the language being used, I honestly thought they already were

We have the “scottish child payment” which mitigates the effects of the two child benefit cap but the SNP has neither the power nor the budget to remove its ill effects completely.

Edit – Binners you know they are right and that labours retenti8on of the 2 child cap is indefensible – I know you know this as you hav e not made any attempt to do so

dunno what it has to do with PR either.

A two state entity would mean a return to the status quo ante, an  apartheid state and a super-exploited dependent state of refugees. Not going to happen. A single secular democratic state based on equality for all is the only answer. 

Not if its based on the 67 borders????

Quite so

I too don’t get what the SNP are doing…or even how they get to do it.  They’ve got what..8 MPs?, the vast majority of the population can’t vote for them, why do they get to potentially influence UK-wide policy?  (And I’d say the same if was Plaid, or DUP etc).  Weird system.

Sixth form level politics in action.

God help being on the right side of an argument.

I too don’t get what the SNP are doing…or even how they get to do it. They’ve got what..8 MPs?, the vast majority of the population can’t vote for them, why do they get to potentially influence UK-wide policy? (And I’d say the same if was Plaid, or DUP etc). Weird system.

UK wide policy affects Scotland.  They are representing their constituents same as any MP.  they like all MPs and parties have the right to propose amendments.  the speaker selects which amendments go to a vote

What they are doing is twofold 1) ending the 2 child benefit cap is the right thing to do and 2) its a nice bit of signalling for the next holyrood election by painting Labour as in favour of this cap and thus as bad as the tories

They’ve got what..8 MPs?, the vast majority of the population can’t vote for them, why do they get to potentially influence UK-wide policy?  (And I’d say the same if was Plaid, or DUP etc).

Are you suggesting that Scotland shouldn’t get to elect any MPs given that they already have a devolved government, or that the parties available to Scottish voters should only be those available at the UK level? *

* – you might want to check which parties are available to all UK voters

1) the SNP gets to influence UK policy because err they represent UK constituencies. If they propose something that has no support outside their party, it will sink without a trace. I don’t think that will happen here.

2) Practically no-one in Israel and Palestine wants a single, binational, secular state. It’s a dream of foreigners and mad idealists alone. Plenty of people want a one state solution (in which the other lot have been run off the land).

3) the suggestion that the UK can simply cancel arms exports licences to Israel is ignoring one thing: Israel is transferring plenty of arms to the UK. The Elbit offices here are for selling, not buying. That’s pain that could go two ways. Some people might think that’s worth it – but in any case it’s more complicated than “UK should turn off the tap”.

4) it’s a myth that Israel will have to do whatever the US tells it to, and Washington simply needs to decide. Removing US support would be painful but not insurmountable – 1947 was fought with Czech weapons, 1967 was fought with French planes, and since then the Israelis have been very careful not to be dependent on others. They are sufficiently friendly with France and Russia and Turkey that they would not struggle to find alternate suppliers if they needed them.

Blimey this ‘sixth form’stuff is so tedious, coming from a Gumby with a chip butty on both shoulders having been told at sixteen he wasn’t suitable for further education. Give us a ‘king break. Amongst my former (working class) students you’ll find an MP, a judge, a number of solicitors, a head teacher, all doing something a bit useful. And they had good socialist politics as sixth formers, by degrading them you degrade yourself, massively.

Those 7 MP’s with the whip suspended for 6 months are some of the real talent in Labour. Sultana, Burgon….if I were them, I’d be looking at a defection to the Greens. They’re both Labour and Co-operative I believe, so fairly aligned with the vast majority of the Green policies.

This is why I’m not a Labour voter or supporter anymore. The feel good start period is definitely over.

Talent clearly not needed at the moment. If they pop off to the greens I doubt they will be missed and their loss numerical is irrelevant at the moment. I’m sure there will be lots of short term noise but meh.

Seven rebels are insignificant and they are the awkward squad anyway.

The bit I find strange about the rebels voting for the SNP amendment is that they fought the last General Election a few weeks ago with a manifesto that stated that Labour want to abolish the 2 child cap, but only when the government finances are in a better state.  So it is hardly surprising that the party had a three line whip and tehn suspended them for 6 months.

Especially as Starmer has recently been making  noises suggesting he’s open to it anyway.

Blimey this ‘sixth form’stuff is so tedious, coming from a Gumby with a chip butty on both shoulders having been told at sixteen he wasn’t suitable for further education.

In the 20+ year history of STW and all the countless insults that have been flung, this is right up there with the very best of them @BillMC !

Not that I disagree with you of course… Binners is showing the kind of blind loyalty to partisan politics that only the most hardened of football supporters could show… Besides @Binners, I bet it wouldn’t be too hard to unearth evidence of you arguing the case for Proportional Representation historically!

Starmer is grossly overstating both his popularity, and also his ability to rule with an iron fist. Don’t get me wrong, in his first 2 weeks he has done plenty of good (but then so would anyone else who wasn’t a Tory quite frankly!), but he’s really screwed the pooch here… There might have only been 7 official dissident voices, but there’s an awful lot who have clearly abstained and given how Labour stated they wish to abolish the 2 child cap themselves as and when fiscally prudent to do so, it seems absolutely ludicrous to have enforced a 3 line whip for “dissenting” voices here, as those voices technically aren’t dissenting, they merely wish for the process to be hurried up!

Starmer might have been the blunt tool the Labour Party needed to make it electable, but it’s precisely his gross lack of respect for democracy that meant I couldn’t vote for him, that will be his undoing much sooner rather than later I suspect… Especially given how the Labour Party should be trying desperately hard to instill public confidence in MP’s for respecting democracy, not undermining it even further…

I thought John McDonnell had disappeared, but no, still around Parliament in his 70s, well i guess he’s got a few months to take it easy now and go back to focusing on his campaign group.

Those 7 MP’s with the whip suspended for 6 months are some of the real talent in Labour. Sultana, Burgon

Burgon? Really? Talent for what exactly? He stood as the living embodiment of ‘is that all we’ve got left?’ Under magic grandad

If I wasn’t such an uneducated working class thicko, I could maybe have dreamt of attending the Tony Benn University of Political Education

https://labourlist.org/2020/02/exclusive-burgon-proposes-tony-benn-university-of-political-education/?amp

If only….

I’ll bet it gets reversed in the budget anyway

And the 7 rebels will be left high and dry

Bit of a pointless battle but starmer and Labour have got plenty to focus on, so I doubt they’ll lose much sleep over this

withdrawing US support will also be the thing that ends Israel as a state

Well, if you’re going to right historic wrongs, you’ve got to start somewhere…

 I bet it wouldn’t be too hard to unearth evidence of you arguing the case for Proportional Representation historically!

Or even against the two child cap. However since the glorious leader has spoken binners will leap to attention and spew bile against anyone who dares question these good labour policies.

I assume he hates sixth form politics so much because the teachers gave up in despair about how easily led he was.

Looking at the guardian comments it really is hard to spot the difference between the dedicated starmerites and the daily heils commentators around the two child cap. I suspect many who felt obliged to oppose it when it was a tory policy are now liking that they can indulge in their prejudices since the glorious leader hasnt gone against it.

Starmer will  probably get shut of it next week now the vote has served its purpose… getting rid of the last of magic grandads disciples.

They can join him in backbench, placard-waving irrelevance.

Their spiritual home

I think the withdrawal of the whip is a miscalculation politically. Yes, I understand the desire to have a tight ship, and no I don’t think its antidemocratic to require MPs to confirm to the party platform on which they were elected.

However, if you have a majority of ten zillion,  including a whole bunch of people you never expected to make it, it’s inevitable that some of them are going to dissent esp if it’s symbolic. It’s also not like they’re supporting some mad anti-Semitic or trolling motion for which there really can’t be any tolerance. The whips should have let it ride, one way or another.

Burgon? Really? Talent for what exactly? He stood as the living embodiment of ‘is that all we’ve got left?’ Under magic grandad

If I wasn’t such an uneducated working class thicko, I could maybe have dreamt of attending the Tony Benn University of Political Education

Erm, yeah….right you are then!

Sixth form level politics in action.

Looking strong rather than doing the right thing does seem pretty childish.

Especially as Starmer has recently been making noises suggesting he’s open to it anyway.

I’ll bet it gets reversed in the budget anyway

Aye right.  Starmer and Reeves have picked a ridiculous hill to die on.   They could have committed to this in the future, they could have just said the two child cap with the abhorrent rape clause will be removed as soon as feasible.  Everyone who works in the area ie the experts have said it needs to go.  Its perfectly affordable ie the cost is lower than many commitments they have made

It is indefensible on any grounds to keep this policy and note thoser totally uncritical of labour on here have not even attempted to make a defense of this policy

Aye right.  Starmer and Reeves have picked a ridiculous hill to die on

You may want to check your notes about who died on what hill tonight?

They can join him in backbench, placard-waving irrelevance.

Whereas you are joining the daily **** heil.

Your spiritual home by any chance?

I wonder if Starmer felt compelled not to scrap the cap as he thought it would be seen as a weakness in future rebellions? Making them more likely in the future.

Anyway, it’s all a bit daft, it seems inevitable that it will be scrapped** and 7 MP’s have lost the whip over it.

** It should have already been scrapped imo.

Oh, I often forget that everyone not to the left of Jeremy Corbyn is a Nazi

Thanks for the reminder though comrade

Thanks TJ. Looks like extra child benefit.

https://www.mygov.scot/scottish-child-payment

Like it. Not quite a mitigation for the cap, but in many ways better. Would like to see something like that UK wide. Or just raise child benefit for all to make it simpler (and taxes elsewhere to balance).

Wow, clearly a lot of people in here who don’t quite understand politics.

80% of the public are against lifting the cap.

Anyone who defies a three line whip to vote against their own government must be suspended, 100% the correct decision. The Tories didn’t do this and they all lost all authority. It’s basic politics. Sure there is lots of ranting on social media, but most aren’t taking everything into account.

Politics isn’t getting everything you want all the time, Starmer clearly isn’t a fan of it but the chance to do it has gone for now. Contrary to what people seem to believe for some reason, it doesn’t mean they won’t ever do it. I give it less than a year.

Then everyone can start moaning about other stuff.