UK Government Thread

No I was thinking of the wider civil war with Labour insiders briefing against each other

This sort of stuff:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/25/keir-starmer-under-pressure-to-get-a-grip-on-sue-gray-tensions

Isn’t Rosie Duffield from the Kate Hoey school of Labour MPs? The ones where you wonder what on earth they’re doing in the Labour Party in the first place?

Isn’t she a bit… erm… what’s the best way to put it… GB News-friendly?

Don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out, will you?

Well she was on the right of the party and a couple of years ago she considered defecting to the Tories, which makes her resignation all the more surprising.

You would think that she would have been happy with the direction that Starmer has taken the party and its Tory- friendly policies such as the child benefit cap, no?

Given her track record on trans rights and LGBT issues generally, I would have thought Reform with Nige and 30p Lee would be her more natural home.

I doubt she’ll be missed by many people in the party

To be honest I came here to post along the lines of, “well good for her, standing up for her principles and all, whether we agree or not…”

Then I went off and read about some of her past comments and I’m not really comfortable saying that now!

Blimey the sausages gaffe isn’t doing much to squash the rumours currently circulating.

I take it you’re talking about the rampant homophobia presently doing the rounds on Elons cesspit?

Rosie Duffield would definitely approve of that, being pretty homophobic herself

Yeah that stuff.

I have no idea if Rosie Duffield is homophobic though. Why wasn’t she kicked out of the party if that was the case? People have been kicked out for such minor things recently I can’t see why homophobia would be tolerated. Although to be fair Duffield is no left-winger so I guess that would have given her some protection.

Edit : Btw is it ‘homophobic’ to suggest that Starmer might be gay? Genuine question as I don’t necessarily make an automatic connection between the two

The “lovely” Rosie is a dyed in the wool transphobe and should not have had the Labour party’s support for the election. Anyone who denies human rights should be cast into the political outer darkness.

I have no idea if Rosie Duffield is homophobic though

it wouldn’t take long googling to find out that she is. She’s also rabidly transphobic. Like Kate Hoey before her, it’s difficult to see what she was ever doing in the Labour Party. Her social views seem more in line with Reform

Edit : Btw is it ‘homophobic’ to suggest that Starmer might be gay? Genuine question as I don’t necessarily make an automatic connection between the two

It shouldn’t be, no, but if you read the comments on social media, most of it is (somewhat predictably) pretty toxic and homophobic

I have no idea if Rosie Duffield is homophobic though. Why wasn’t she kicked out of the party if that was the case? People have been kicked out for such minor things recently I can’t see why homophobia would be tolerated. Although to be fair Duffield is no left-winger so I guess that would have given her some protection.

Seems to be pro LGB, anti T

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/09/28/rosie-duffield-labour-mp-trans-views/

Edit : Btw is it ‘homophobic’ to suggest that Starmer might be gay? Genuine question as I don’t necessarily make an automatic connection between the two

In itself and automatically, no, although it is pretty bad to ‘out’ someone without their permission. That in turn isn’t necessarily homophobic, it could genuinely be an error – but then see below.

To specific comments; although by the letter many of them would just about qualify for plausible deniability, I think my radar is well enough tuned (not least by the types of accounts and followers) that the commentary on X questioning Starmer’s preferences is far from innocent.

She’s also rabidly transphobic.

Oh come on, the Labour Party had rabidly transphobic candidates in July’s general election? Any other dodgy Labour MPs that we should know about?

I suspect that she only became a ‘rabidly transphobic’   straight after her resignation letter made the headlines today.

Yes I knew that Rosie Duffield had issues with trans women but I don’t think diverting the thread onto the rights and wrongs of a completely separate subject is appropriate.

What interests me how less than 3 months ago she was a suitable candidate for the Labour Party and yet today she is denounced as rabidly transphobic and unfit to be a Labour MP.

Nothing to do with her resignation letter? It sounds like the sort of thing that Donald Trump would do……. suddenly discover that someone is a terrible person straight after they have criticised him.

If what you are suggesting about Rosie Duffield is true then Starmer has some explaining to do. I have never known any Labour leader to be so hands-on when it came to the selection of Labour candidates. He didn’t hesitate to impose candidates on constituencies if you thought their choice was “unsuitable”

I suspect that she only became a ‘rabidly transphobic’   straight after her resignation letter made the headlines today.

Why would you say that? Her views are well known.

I have never known any Labour leader to be so hands-on when it came to the selection of Labour candidates.

1) you may have decided that Labour candidate selection was in some way centrally directed by the leader of the party in an unusual way… that doesn’t make it true

2) she was a sitting MP… were any sitting MPs (with the party whip) deselected?

I think you should probably do a bit of research on Duffields track record. It’s not difficult. Her views are hardly a secret.

Even more bizarrely, given how socially conservative she is, she was selected as Labour candidate and elected in 2017 under Corbyn

Go figure?

Why would you say that? Her views are well known.

I thought it was very obvious why I said that, because I don’t believe that Labour would allow a rabidly transphobic to stand as a candidate. Could I have made it any clearer?

And of course her views were well-known, including obviously to the party leadership. Do you actually remember the trouble that Diane Abbott had getting approved by the leadership as a Labour candidate because she suggested something along the lines of ginger and Jewish people don’t face the same level of daily racism which she does? She actually had to apologise for saying that (she shouldn’t have) and even then it was only the public outcry which tipped in her favour and she was allowed to stand.

Seriously the hypocrisy and double standards is off the scale on this thread.

Seriously the hypocrisy and double standards is off the scale on this thread.

Yep, you know when tories defend the tory party just because they voted tory – it’s that. I would still (just about) rather have the current Labour Party in power than the tories but I will be criticising them in the same way I criticised the tory party.
If/when they do good things I will happily say so. Was hoping Labour would be doing far more good things that the tories but still waiting on that one but only 3 months…

There’s a list of things that the new government has done that should be celebrated a few pages back, although I’m eagerly awaiting a lot more.

Duffield is a strange fit, definitely more towards the Reform end of the Tory party than where I’d expect a Labour MP to be.

Not being on Twitter, I’d not heard anything further on Sausage Gate until reading it here. That sounds like the kind of childish ignorant nonsense I might have come out with when I was 12, disappointed the world hasn’t moved on in 40 years.

People seem to be forgetting that the Labour party is a broad church of people and there are different aspects of the Left. A lot of traditional Labour voters would be considered economically on the left, because it looked after their interests, whilst being quite socially conservative. Anyone remember the red wall collapse?

It would be interesting to know the real reason behind Rosie Duffields resignation, sure the optics aren’t great regarding trousergate but its hardly a resigning issue, it’s not going to change anything and to put it bluntly Starmer and team have generally acted within the spirit of the rules even if they’ve failed to comply with the letter of the rules. Its not Tory level illegality by any stretch, same as 1 bottle of beer and partygate.

I suspect there’s a lot more to come out around this, why has she thrown away her seat at the start of the parliamentary term?

But she hasn’t thrown her seat away. She can happily sit in it, collecting the money, until the next election.

why has she thrown away her seat at the start of the parliamentary term?

She is keeping her seat as far as I am aware but just resigning from Labour.

Her history with the labour leadership seems to have always been difficult. So I suspect the reasons are as stated built on top of that history.

to put it bluntly Starmer and team have generally acted within the spirit of the rules even if they’ve failed to comply with the letter of the rules

So tories but competent then? The within the “spirit of the rules” isnt that great when they are the rule writers. Most of us operate under far stricter rules when it comes to something which can be considered bribery.

It would be interesting to know the real reason behind Rosie Duffields resignation, sure the optics aren’t great regarding trousergate but its hardly a resigning issue

My thoughts too. However she also cited “cruel and unnecessary” policies. Although she isn’t on the left of the party and Starmer’s lurch to the right is nothing new. It seems very strange for an MP to resign from a party less than 3 months after a general election, I wonder if it’s happened before?

Talking of things which haven’t happened before I have never heard of a Conference slump before, only of a Conference bump.

Keir Starmer hits new low in personal popularity ratings

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/28/keir-starmer-hits-new-low-in-personal-popularity-ratings

While party leaders hope for a conference bounce as a result of wall-to-wall media coverage, Starmer suffered the reverse effect, as his ratings plunged to their lowest ever level, and well below those of Rishi Sunak.

Oh dear, how did he manage to do that?

Still, I suspect that one of his loyal supporters will be along to say that it doesn’t matter, he’s got a huge majority, and it’s all going to plan. And then add some comment about Corbyn.

Ok bad terminology, she has her seat to the next election (probably) but she’s out of the party and all the support mechanisms that provides.

So tories but competent then?

Back to the they’re all the same argument. No the Torys quite happily did things that have been shown to be illegal (partygate) and to have been corrupt on an industrial scale. Labour have accepted donations within the current rules, rules written based on the fact that parties are funded through donations. Not the same thing at all.

I take it you’re talking about the rampant homophobia presently doing the rounds on Elons cesspit?

Seen some of Katie Hopkins,it’s like going back to the playground in the early 80’s.
Very childish and a bit disappointing, I thought we’d moved on.

Some perspective is probably required here.

This time yesterday most people had never even heard of Rosie Duffield, She’s been an MP since 2017 and all she’s known for is her prominent views on trans rights, which most people who were aware of found offensive, and a campaign to have Pride flags removed from schools, that the Daily Mail got on board with

Starmer has got plenty to worry about at the moment, but I doubt Rosie Duffield figures as she briefly emerges from backbench obscurity.

I wonder what odds I can get on her being a member of Reform within a week?

*opens betting app*

Not strictly UK Gov but all to do with -gate allegations so I’ll put it here.

Someone needs to have a word with Bob Jenrick about glass houses and stones.

https://news.sky.com/story/robert-jenrick-defends-16375000-donation-after-criticising-labour-in-freebies-row-13224393?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

Seems from other reading the donation from the UK based fitness company is indeed legit and declared. Less clear is where they get their income from…..

https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2024/09/20/robert-jenricks-top-donor-received-loan-from-untraceable-bvi-firm/

I suspect that she only became a ‘rabidly transphobic’ straight after her resignation letter made the headlines today.

You would be wrong about transphobic (rabidly I’m not certain of).

Some reading by those with a dog in the fight

https://medium.com/@transylvania/rosie-duffield-is-a-transphobic-bigot-ff40aa248c7a

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/09/28/rosie-duffield-labour-mp-trans-views/

but she’s out of the party and all the support mechanisms that provides.

Okay and thats a problem if she doesnt like which direction the party is going, how exactly?

Not the same thing at all

Uh huh, so competent at taking cash but staying inside the rules just as I said.

I love this “within the current rules”. They write the rules which are far laxer than the majority of businesses or the civil service etc (which shows just how spectacularly bad the tories were at not being able to stay within them) . You might be happy with someone taking well over a 100k of gifts but anyone sensible would be asking what is being given in return for them. Private Eye notes for example how PwC gave the tories lots of “free”staff and consultancy services in 2008-10 and then did the same for Labour in the last couple of years. Seems to be paying off since they have got plenty of good, paid, contacts from both.

I see it’s the usual attack the person not the message. I guess it’s ok to trouser a load of freebies after all it’s something for nothing in return?

Anyway as you were, back to the squabbling.

Got to giggle a bit when right wingers leave the party – ‘good riddance.’

Yet when the right wingers were needed – Centrists relaxed their intangible progressive views.   Got to attract them they said.

This Duffield might not be on my political spectrum but she’s clearly correct about Starmer’s shoddy attributes.

Also, if only Centrists were so on point when it came to inequality and child caps etc.  I’ve noticed the things that bother them are the ‘rules’ not the implications of an economy that might ruin people’s lives.

I wonder what odds I can get on her being a member of Reform within a week?

About the as same then forming the next government if Labour keep helping out.

Yet when the right wingers were needed – Centrists relaxed their intangible progressive views. Got to attract them they said.

I look forward to you showing where us centrists have expressed any willingness to have someone with Duffield’s views in the Labour Party.

Because if you can’t, you’re looking like a sulky child looking for any excuse to lash out.

And I’m not sure any of us on here have supported the 2 child cap, or the blanket withdrawal of tne winter fuel payment or supported inequality. No doubt you’ll be providing names and quotes shortly.

Starmer has got plenty to worry about at the moment

It’s great to see that you are finally agreeing with me binners.

And yes, hasn’t he just?

@Sandwich that Medium article was an interesting choice given that Lexi Bowen (aka Alexander Secker) was handed a 6 year sentence for rape the day before yesterday.

It’s neither bigoted nor right-wing to believe that women should have the right to single sex spaces.

at the risk of derailing the government thread – abhorrent person, deserves their sentence for what they did. Doesn’t mean their article was factually incorrect.

Tell us what you think about Rosie Duffield’s views though, as that’s peripherally the subject.

abhorrent person, deserves their sentence for what they did. Doesn’t mean their article was factually incorrect.

The article is thin on facts and fat on opinions. The opinions of a convicted rapist. If you feel that the views of a trans woman who used her male body to rape a woman who trusted her should be taken seriously, when discussing the fear women feel in vulnerable situations such as public toilets, domestic violence refuges, and prisons, then that is quite astonishing. Although I guess it fits in with the reoccurring hypocrisy theme on this thread.

I would have thought that Lexi Secker is the very last person who should be offered as a witness or some sort of insightful sage on the topic of women feeling the need to have safe single sex spaces.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdpdm4r4ro

The article is thin on facts and fat on opinions.

Practically every paragraph contains an assertion (you call it an opinion) and then a link to justify the assertion. Many are simple statements of facts and the links are a matter of record. You can disagree with whether the overall result converts to an overall opinion that Duffield is transphobic, but your above statement is false.

Although I guess it fits in with the reoccurring hypocrisy theme on this thread.

I make no bones that Lexi Secker is a horrible person and deserves everything they are getting. But as a compilation of verifiable facts, irrespective of who compiled them the article is correct. It’s not hypocrisy to say that; it’s more hypocritical for you to say that is is low on fact because of the speaker.

Irrespective of who wrote it, I firmly believe that Duffield is a transphobe. Do you disagree?

but your above statement is false.

It’s my opinion, the article is thin on facts and fat on opinion. Apparently you have a different one.

And it is interesting that in your rebuttal of my comments you completely ignore the obviously most important one :

I would have thought that Lexi Secker is the very last person who should be offered as a witness or some sort of insightful sage on the topic of women feeling the need to have safe single sex spaces.

And it is interesting that in your rebuttal of my comments you completely ignore the obviously most important one………..the topic of women feeling the need to have safe single sex spaces.

The topic is whether Duffield is transphobic, which once again you have failed to answer. Are you going to ignore for days and then do your ‘oh that was ages ago’ again?

Which of the stated facts in the article are untrue?

Did Duffield not write the linked tweets, or ‘like’ the tweets by others (Morgan, Linehan, etc.)

Did her LGBT+ staffers resign over her transphobic attitude?

Did she not say she’d rather be arrested than refer to Eddie Izzard by her preferred gender identity?

Have you looked at the clip of her (and other’s) responses to Kirsty Blackman reading her constituent’s letter?

These are not the actions of a trans ally, by any stretch. They are the actions of a transphobic woman.

FWIW – I AGREE with Duffield on some points – safe spaces for example – and disagree with Secker. I’m no transphobe (I hope). It’s a complex subject, and it’s fine for you to assert

Lexi Secker is the very last person who should be offered as a witness or some sort of insightful sage on the topic of women feeling the need to have safe single sex spaces.

but at the same time it’s also correct to assert that the article is basically factual.

The topic is whether Duffield is transphobic, which once again you have failed to answer. Are you going to ignore for days and then do your ‘oh that was ages ago’ again?

Well you can ask me again in a weeks time and see what I say.

The topic isn’t Duffield, she is not the UK government. And I have already answered the question more than once.

And I have already answered the question more than once.

Have you? At best you seem to have skated around, in fact you seem to be more towards not? I’m unclear.

Yes I knew that Rosie Duffield had issues with trans women

I don’t believe that Labour would allow a rabidly transphobic to stand as a candidate.

Had issues with? Can’t be because the leadership wouldn’t have allowed her to stand?

Make it clear for us, why so reluctant?

Do you think Duffield is transphobic? I’ll even offer you a milder alternative (label the act not the person) – has on several occasions expressed transphobic views, and associates with transphobic groups and individuals (eg: Get the L out, LGB Alliance, Rowling, Linehan)