UK Government Thread

Now she’s doing her best Arthur Scargill impression…

Reeves says Labour is not a party of protest in response to anti-arms trade protesters saying we shouldn’t be selling arms to Israel. She’s right, they’re the party of genocide and death, among a few other things. God I despise her!

We don’t sell arms to Israel.

We do still sell some argee… there’s some stuff we can’t withdraw unilaterally without wrecking agreements with Germany or the USA (neither of which currently have governments run by “parties of genocide”, and nor do we).

UK PLC don’t sell any arms to Israel, the likes of Thales, or Lockheed Martin and so on might, but again, i believe Labour recently suspended several licenses for some of these companies in relation to selling specific parts to Israel, not sure of the criteria, but it did cause a fair bit of outrage at the time.

UK PLC

WTF is UK PLC? You do realise that’s a fabrication by the media to fuel the myth that the UK govt operates like a business with finite money rather than a currency-issuing nation state which isn’t bound by solvency laws etc..

Labour recently suspended several licenses for some of these companies in relation to selling specific parts to Israel

Yeah, I put that in the Gaza thread. Very little goes direct from UK, and with the change of UK government most of that very little has now been suspended.

WTF is UK PLC? You do realise that’s a fabrication by the media to fuel the myth that the UK govt operates like a business with finite money rather than a currency-issuing nation state which isn’t bound by solvency laws etc..

No it isn’t. It’s a construct to look at the macro needs of the UK of which the economy is part, but training, education and skills, technology, health, investability, regulations, productivity, etc. are all part.

https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/34460/documents/190189/default/

WTF is UK PLC? You do realise that’s a fabrication by the media to fuel the myth that the UK govt operates like a business with finite money rather than a currency-issuing nation state which isn’t bound by solvency laws etc..

9/10 for the rant on something that wasn’t actually stated ;o)

The pot idea is not viable, can you see trade unions funnelling £10 million into it knowing they’re sticking £2 million or more into tory or reform pockets?

Same with the GBNews guys donations, or the reform multi-millionaire, they’re not going for that,

Yes, I realize that which is why I said I would be surprised if anyone continued to donate if they are not directly getting something out of it. It would stop donations dead.

UK PLC don’t sell any arms to Israel, the likes of Thales, or Lockheed Martin and so on might

Wow. So presumably using that criteria no country in the world is selling arms to Israel? And Israel isn’t producing its own weapons either.

I am starting to agree with Ransos’s comment concerning the entertainment value of your mental gymnastics argee. It’s worth clicking on this thread just to discover what your latest weird concept is. It is certainly on par with the best that any Tory politician can think of.

There isn’t much to say apart form Labour are making an abstract mess. No significant growth will turn up. The WFA trim is an abomination to save what is politically a rounding error made up by idiots – 1.4bn – (Of which the BoE just created 10bn out of thin air to help.)  I mean she’s just been handed 10bn headroom (in their language) and she’s still harping on about black-holes.

This is not the preserve of truthful economic planning.

More big fails to come.

Why are they so bad?

Wow. So presumably using that criteria no country in the world is selling arms to Israel? And Israel isn’t producing its own weapons either.

I am starting to agree with Ransos’s comment concerning the entertainment value of your mental gymnastics argee. It’s worth clicking on this thread just to discover what your latest weird concept is. It is certainly on par with the best that any Tory politician can think of.

Yeah, ok, using actual facts is just pointless on this thread, a few posts back Daz is stating we’re not a PLC, but now you’re saying we are in the business of selling stuff, christ make up your minds!

Your use of a dartboard approach to being able to slag off the current government is what brings me entertainment, are we now back to the UK being at fault for every ill occurring around the world again, or just internal with the fanatical centrist, or is it far right labour cabinet?

No it isn’t. It’s a construct to look at the macro needs of the UK of which the economy is part

So why use the PLC tag? It’s no more a PLC than it is a charity. The UK is a nation state, yes it needs all those things you listed but the PLC analogy is deliberately misleading. It serves no purpose than to hoodwink UK citizens into thinking it operates like a PLC. It doesn’t, if it did it would have collapsed a long time ago.

a few posts back Daz is stating we’re not a PLC, but now you’re saying we are in the business of selling stuff, christ make up your minds!

It’s pure semantics. Yes private companies sell the arms, but they wouldn’t be able to do so without the express permission and active involvement of the UK govt. You know they have this novel thing called regulation, which governs what comes into and goes out of the country, and what British businesses can and can’t do? Suggesting the UK has no involvement or culpability for arms supplies to Israel is ridiculous.

This is not the preserve of truthful economic planning.

More big fails to come.

Why are they so bad?

I don’t know – did you stand for election?  because its seems there’s a lot of people in this thread know exactly what it is that politicians should be doing but who don’t seem interested in actually doing it themselves?

UK PLC don’t sell any arms to Israel, the likes of Thales, or Lockheed Martin and so on might, but again, i believe Labour recently suspended several licenses for some of these companies in relation to selling specific parts to Israel, not sure of the criteria, but it did cause a fair bit of outrage at the time.

The UK Government (not “labour”) controls export licenses for military technology.  These may be for complete systems supplied by BAE, Lockheed Martin, Thales, Leonardo etc.  But they can also be for components or parts of systems with military capability – those might be supplied by the same big names or by smaller specialist firms.  In some cases stopping supply of a tiny component may actually bugger up the supply chain of a much bigger system.  The UK gov suspended 30 or the 350 export licenses currently in place for Israel.

In some cases the original development of that technology will have been sponsorred or supported by UK MOD funding.

The UK Government (not “labour”) controls export licenses for military technology.

Presume you’re up to date with the election result?

I don’t know – did you stand for election? because its seems there’s a lot of people in this thread know exactly what it is that politicians should be doing but who don’t seem interested in actually doing it themselves?

I’m sorry, but I laughed at that. The forum does seem to have a huge untapped potential to resolve all world crises given the number of experts we have who are sure they are right, and I’ve been guilty of it myself.

So why use the PLC tag? It’s no more a PLC than it is a charity. The UK is a nation state, yes it needs all those things you listed but the PLC analogy is deliberately misleading. It serves no purpose than to hoodwink UK citizens into thinking it operates like a PLC. It doesn’t, if it did it would have collapsed a long time ago.

I think you’re overegging that, the UK plc is just a convenient moniker as outlined in the paper and while the economy and the selection of economic model to adopt forms part of it, it was an objection to your false assertion that it’s “a fabrication by the media to fuel the myth that the UK govt operates like a business with finite money”

It’s not that, and it’s not a media fabrication either.

I’ve said I’m not doing politics on here any more, no sense arguing against the dug in positions but I will call out where facts are ‘misrepresented’ as i did with Ernie’s at the weekend – up to others to decide why they are being presented in that way and how much credibility the poster has when they adopt their usual deflect, deny, deride defences.

Your use of a dartboard approach to being able to slag off the current government

Er, it’s not me that’s slagging off the government currently, it’s pretty much everyone incl the media and apparently voters.

And apparently the government agrees with them, as in “yeah okay, we won’t be doing that anymore”.

I’ve said I’m not doing politics on here any more

Remind us again tomorrow Jon.

And apparently the government agrees with them, as in “yeah okay, we won’t be doing that anymore”.

It’s worse than that, their attitude is “we’ll keep doing that, but this time we’ll remember to write it in the Big Book of Bribes”.

Remind us again tomorrow Jon.

Derision, as predicted.

“We are the party of change, not the party of protest”

My mum sitting here had a few choice of her own to describe Reeves whilst watching that, none of which I could write on here.

Edit.. wot the **** is going on with this forum and attempting to include YouTube links?, every single time I go to post a link nothing shows up,  then I have to open up on iPhone/iPad then edit and insert link, no surprise the amount of folk posting has dropped off

“We are the party of change, not the party of protest”

I’d have thought they’d want to stay well clear of labels of the format “Party of ….” as there are lots of more popular candidates than that. It writes the tory attack lines for the five years..

Party of 6k glasses
Party of fancy suits
Party of free footy tickets
Party of free Taylor Swift tickets
Party of lavish birthday parties

etc.

Derision, as predicted.

Oh lighten up man! This is an internet forum not The Times letter’s page.

Derision, as predicted.

I originally expressed the view that it would be a shame if you no longer contributed, after your initial announcement

Now several weeks later and almost daily announcements it is starting to wear a little thin. Either contribute or don’t contribute there really isn’t any need to inform everyone daily of your intentions.

I didn’t post for 10 days because there was nothing worth commenting on.

Then you posted (if I’m charitable) ‘misinterpretations’ of a Guardian article about TW that I corrected you on and which you as usual deflected, derided, like you usually do. I note you didn’t correct.

Now Daz is posting ‘misinterpretations’ of what UK Plc is, that I have corrected.

I have no interest in the back and forth on whether Starmer’s doing a good job or whether Reeves should adopt MMT – as you said that’s worn terribly thin and won’t change any opinions. But I’ll correct factual errors where I see them.

because its seems there’s a lot of people in this thread know exactly what it is that politicians should be doing but who don’t seem interested in actually doing it themselves?

I hadn’t realised that we needed to stand for election to know that we should buy our own suits.

But I’ll correct factual errors where I see them.

Likewise: your explanation of how NGDBs make decisions, for example

Oh lighten up man! This is an internet forum not The Times letter’s page.

If people stop misrepresenting the facts to suit their entrenched positions I won’t feel any further need to get involved.

Now Daz is posting ‘misinterpretations’ of what UK Plc is, that I have corrected.

It’s still a stupid analogy whoever created it. The fact that it came from a parliamentary committee only demonstrates how clueless our political representatives are. Either that or they’re not clueless and they know exactly what they’re doing.

But I’ll correct factual errors where I see them.

Our very own Jonathan Aitken with your sword of truth and shield of British fair play! 😀

Likewise: your explanation of how NGDBs make decisions, for example

What’s an NGDB? Do you mean a NDPB

You are correcting me ‘from your experience’ on how they work and don’t even get the acronym right? Hmmm……..

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/public-bodies#:~:text=Non%2Ddepartmental%20public%20bodies%20(NDPBs,ministerial%20control%20than%20executive%20agencies.

Our very own Jonathan Aitken with your sword of truth and shield of British fair play! 😀

More derision I see.

Is that your last and final word on the matter?

(more derision)

Seriously, listen to Daz’s suggestion……

“Ah, come on Dougal, lighten up!”.

Is that your last and final word on the matter?

I can’t say; are you and your pals going to start being a bit more reliable with the facts?

Seriously, listen to Daz’s suggestion……

“Ah, come on Dougal, lighten up!”.

Let us keep taking the piss out of you….

I thought I’s take a quick peak at this thread, but then I was like:

What’s an NGDB? Do you mean a NDPB

You are correcting me ‘from your experience’ on how they work and don’t even get the acronym right? Hmmm……..

I described how things work in the real world, based on recent personal experience dealing with central government. You pick up on a mistake with an abbreviation. Hmm indeed.

I can’t say; are you and your pals

You do realise how pathetic that sounds?

Let us keep taking the piss out of you….

Why not? Especially if I keep saying ‘that’s it’s, I am definitely not discussing politics anymore,’. And then I repeat the same thing a couple of days later.

I can’t say; are you and your pals going to start being a bit more reliable with the facts?

I honestly don’t know what you are talking about Jon. Here is an entire post of yours :

theotherjonv

Full Member

most disappointing to me is that behind the scenes, government with a small g – the Dept advisors, junior ministers, CS, etc., are getting on with quiet competence and whether it’s truth or perception – and frankly it’s the same thing right now – they are being badly let down by their figureheads. Even on here the talk is of shit corrupt government, when it’s a few (so far) letting the whole side down.

I still have hope that the right decisions will be allowed to be made (not necessarily the popular ones) by people that know what they’re doing, and in the meantime SKS gets his head down and stops stepping in things that distract from the real work.

I wonder what sort of a ride he’ll get at conference; hopefully someone with credibility and clout will tell him to get it fixed.

Posted 2 days ago

Nowhere are you challenging any “facts”. You are simply giving your analysis of the current political situation. Which is absolutely fine of course. But why are you coming out with this nonsense that your contributions are solely focused on correcting “unreliable facts”?

Why not just post your opinions without all this false drama about correcting other people?

I described how things work in the real world, based on recent personal experience dealing with central government. You pick up on a mistake with an abbreviation. Hmm indeed.

So you say. Yet the links I provide explain how it works, whereas your ‘mistake with an abbreviation’ and previous less than accurate explanation doesn’t make me think your experience is reliable. Simple as that.

You do realise how pathetic that sounds?

Pointing out where people are making stuff up to suit their own version is pathetic? OK. I think the personal attacks are pathetic. I see Ernie’s still not addressing the content and just keeps doing the deflect and deride. Coming from the team that post the same thing over and over again, the latest being their repeat pathetic ‘naughty guardian’ jokes, I’m not bothered tbh.

If you want to discuss how the government is doing properly I won’t stop you. Make shit up, I’ll point it out.