UK Government Thread

With the best glasses donor money can buy, surely Starmer can see that this week has been a total disaster

Marina Hyde

Marina Hyde turning on Starmer is going to confuse a few people on here. They’ll have to find someone else to tell them what to think.

It is functioning exactly as it has been for the last 14 years, no better and no worse. Not sure why you are being so melodramatic about it

I do like the word melodramatic being used in the same thread that’s got some proper guff said in it with a supporting article from the weird and wonderful internet!

I just don’t know how the country is still functioning with all the failures and scandals, i’m amazed there’s not militias running the streets just now

Because people who count are good at firefighting.

I don’t get the defence  – it’s in our interest to have a Labour government that didn’t do all this stupid stuff. At the absolute best it’s given the right an eternity of ammo, at the worst the country is accelerating its right-leaning trajectory.

Stupid, just plain stupid decisions that didn’t need to happen.

WFA did not need to happen at all.  There’s no way even if you were using heterodox economics 1.4bn would touch the sides.  (Not forgetting the 2 child cap farce.)

Labour could have done a much much better job coming into power – and really pushed themselves.

The Labour right are doing their level best to make sure Labour are banished.

No one wins. None of us.

His biggest grossing film is still the most predictably shit and the others just shit. We’d all be better off without them or him

Unfortunately in Cinema the biggest grossing argument does go a long way and oils a lot of cogs; especially in the face of critics.

Cameron did start as a low-budget film maker though.  He definitely shaped cinema in many good ways.

The fact that he’s an ego maniac – well yeah.

Marina Hyde turning on Starmer is going to confuse a few people on here. They’ll have to find someone else to tell them what to think.

Ooof.

I’m waiting for Toynbee.

She will be there until the end I reckon.

The prime minister has maintained he has always followed the rules on donations.

Yeah but greedy is never a good look for any politician, especially one who claims to be offering something different to the Tories.

Which is why Starmer has eventually caved in.

PM will no longer accept donations for clothes

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyvpv1lzq6o

How will he manage? He’s going to have to make some “tough decisions” the next time that he needs a new suit.

I’m still wearing the suit my soon to be ex-brother-in-law grew out off 40 years ago when I need to wear a suit. Starmer should have enough suits for a lifetime if he goes easier on the beer than my soon to be ex-brother-in-law. perhaps he can get new lenses for those oh so expensive frames if his correction changes.

How will he manage? He’s going to have to make some “tough decisions” the next time that he needs a new suit.

He’ll have to cut them to his cloth.

How will he manage?

He’s got 5 years to prepare for the next campaign. Not having his wardrobe and glasses picked out and paid for him by his campaign team should be easy enough to avoid next time. God this is a boring non story. And jumped on by people here who claim not to be easily led by the media. Gullible, or what?

God this is a boring non story. And jumped on by people here who claim not to be easily led by the media. Gullible, or what?

I take a deep interest in stories circulating the media are you trying to say that you don’t? I think it was about the third item on this evening’s BBC News.

And if this is the non story which you claim it is then surely Keir Starmer must be the gullible one…….he has announced today that he will no longer accept donations for clothes.

I suspect that Keir Starmer doesn’t see things quite as you claim to see them Kelvin and he fully recognises that this has been a terrible week for him, and that his obvious and unnecessary greed during “tough times” will have cost him public good will.

It was a Boris Johnson level blunder and I reckon Rishi Sunak should troll him by getting photographed trying glasses on at an opticians.

It was a Boris Johnson level blunder

What a stretch. We’re at “beergate” all over again.

Two months into a 5 year term with a majority in parliament, yeah i’m sure Starmer and his cabinet are really concerned about public opinion polls or stories about legal donations that follow the long tradition of large donors donating to the winners, no matter the politics.

Again, if Starmer did something like Johnson, that was wilfully breaking rules or laws, then i’d not care too much if he was replaced by Rayner, Reeves, etc, thankfully they do seem to be ignoring all the bluster and continuing to govern, without having to be led by public opinion or trying to be everyones friend.

We’re at “beergate” all over again.

That bad? You think it’s as bad as the beergate scandal? Gosh

I was thinking more wallpapergate and all the greed and extravagant expenditure that involved, hence my suggestion that Rishi Sunak should consider trolling Starmer and go shopping for glasses.

It seems rather appropriate wouldn’t you say?

thankfully they do seem to be ignoring all the bluster and continuing to govern, without having to be led by public opinion

I take that you are not aware of this :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/20/keir-starmer-labour-stop-taking-clothes-gifts-from-donors

And I am amazed that it is no longer about public opinion, I thought the justification for a lot of pretty right-wing policies was because at the end of the day what apparently really matters is public opinion?

So when did that change?

I’m not sure we’ve had a PM of the people for a very long time, but as long as he’s for the people I’m happy.

I’d rather he wasn’t a hypocrite though. Jury is out for me whether it’s that or naivety (he’s a KC, so I’m struggling with the latter).

For me it’s not the suits, glasses and the football box, it’s the lack of judgement by a reasonably wealthy individual and the team that surrounds him.

Alongside the pensioners WFA and God alone knows what in the budget, as a Labour voter I am more than unhappy. Labour had a window of opportunity post election to bang some big old stakes in the ground and crack on.

The whole public view is that Labour robbed the pensioners and took a load of freebies, it doesn’t matter what Boris and the f**wits did they have been punished. We can sweep this aside and present all the arguments but it looks s**t, sounds s**t so it is s**t

Just pay for your own stuff.

So easy and would look a hell of a lot better than freeloading. I really don’t care so much about the rules on this one – it’s pure optics.

Most people think politicians are over paid and have too many houses etc – it might not be accurate but that’s how it’s viewed. (I don’t think they’re paid enough for such a thankless task.)

One thing the public don’t like is anything to do with politicians and hypocrisy – and that connection has been made with stuff for them and tough decisions for everyone else.

God this is a boring non story.

Yes, that’s what his uncritical followers keep saying.

It clearly isn’t a non story and it is absolutely feeding the “they are all the same” to a lot of people who already suspected that. Combined with the likelihood that there are not really offering anything then where do you think more people will go.
From a casual observer (i.e. the average voter) Tories didn’t do anything for us for 14 years, Labour seem to be the same or even worse so I think I will give Reform a go as they want to change things and seem to be challenging stuff. If Reform vote share increases that will 100% be down to Labour giving away the opportunity they had.

Starmer needs to be whiter than white given the pretext of the previous government.

I’m still holding out hope for some progressive policies but simply scrapping obvious shite like Rwanda isn’t good enough for 5 years.

Wailing about a Black Hole isn’t either. USE IT TO EVERYONE’S ADVANTAGE. Use it to make the case for EU entry, use it to make the case to borrow to invest. Don’t just wail about it and look like you have no plan, no agency and are just going to cut more and more.

I’m still giving this government 12 months to show some real progress. I’m not willing to write them off yet. But they are beginning to get on my tits a little bit.

I think if I am ever asked to explain the phrase “throwing stones in glass houses” I shall illustrate it with reference to Starmer’s Giftgate.

I really hoped we had turned a page on behaviour like this, but at the earliest opportunity this episode has shown us that behind all the huff and puff all politicians are made of the same stuff.

Starmer is a strange contradiction, I can see why people are hopeful with his – no thrills business like demeanor but he doesn’t seem to have any depth at all at times. What the hell does this man believe in?

The twin of Erk Ten Hag :0)

Thanks to @BBCQuestionTime for having me on this evening. We discussed crucial issues facing the UK, including the proposed cuts to winter fuel payments. I argued that what looks like savings in the short term might be a cost in the long term. Cutting support to vulnerable… pic.twitter.com/RByHviXaVH

— Mariana Mazzucato (@MazzucatoM) September 19, 2024

Mazzucato becomes the first mainstream economist I know of to try and frame the debate on QT about government spending – away from the normal arguments about lack of money.

Well done! Progress.

But look how it changes the debate.

I really hoped we had turned a page on behaviour like this, but at the earliest opportunity this episode has shown us that behind all the huff and puff all politicians are made of the same stuff.

For me it’s more worrying that the leader of the Labour Party is clearly so disconnected from the average person in the country. What’s it saying when someone on £163,000/yr can’t afford to buy his own suits and glasses?

Football thing is complicated. I’d be happier if the cost of the box was recharged to the security services and funded out of public money than I am that he’s getting it as a gift. There’s no point saying “no strings attached”, because no one in their right mind would make a donation to a political figure or party and not expect something in return.

One imagines that the cost of providing a posh suit and some glasses will be more than offset by tax changes in the upcoming budget that shift the burden onto lower and middle earners by scrapping salary-sacrifice pension savings and the single-person council tax discount, while the ultra-rich see no changes.

There are some shocking figures for Labour in this recent ipsos poll in which the fieldwork was started before the Wardrobegate story had broken

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/half-britons-disappointed-labour-government-so-far-including-1-4-labour-voters

Half (50%) of Britons say they are disappointed by what Labour have done in government so far – including a quarter (26%) of Labour voters

A quarter (25%) think Keir Starmer is doing a good job as Prime Minister – down from 36% in July

Britons are more likely to think that the Labour government will change Britain for the worse (36%) than the better (31%) 

Approximately a week ago only a quarter of voters thought that Starmer is going a good job as PM, I wonder what that figure is now?

And I am amazed that a quarter of Labour voters are already disappointed by what the Labour government have done so far.

As I am that more people think the current Labour government will change Britain for the worse than for the better.

What makes this particularly serious imo is that Labour’s huge parliamentary majority is built on the smallest share of the vote of any previous government. Only 34% percent voted Labour at the last general election and already a quarter of those people are disappointed.

Many will argue that the next general election is still 5 years away so nothing much to worry about. But 5 years of a widely unpopular Labour government whose starting point is the smallest share of the vote ever sets the scene for a catastrophic disaster at next general election.

Tony Blair lost 3 million Labour votes in his first five years as PM, if Starmer loses just half that amount over the next five years 2029 will be a catastrophe. Who’s ready for a Tory-Reform government?

I think if I am ever asked to explain the phrase “throwing stones in glass houses” I shall illustrate it with reference to Starmer’s Giftgate.

I really hoped we had turned a page on behaviour like this, but at the earliest opportunity this episode has shown us that behind all the huff and puff all politicians are made of the same stuff.

Starmer is not an out and out cronyist crook like Johnson. But he’s given those that want to attack him plenty of ammunition. And the one thing we were supposed to believe about Starmer is that he was going to have his house 100% in order and thus be sorted on the ‘perception management’ front.

The relative degrees and extent of corruption are important to people who follow politics. But nuance and degree is lost on the vast majority of folk who only take a passing interest, if any at all.

Starmer is a **** idiot to have dug this hole for himself.

most disappointing to me is that behind the scenes, government with a small g – the Dept advisors, junior ministers, CS, etc., are getting on with quiet competence and whether it’s truth or perception – and frankly it’s the same thing right now – they are being badly let down by their figureheads. Even on here the talk is of shit corrupt government, when it’s a few (so far) letting the whole side down.

I still have hope that the right decisions will be allowed to be made (not necessarily the popular ones) by people that know what they’re doing, and in the meantime SKS gets his head down and stops stepping in things that distract from the real work.

I wonder what sort of a ride he’ll get at conference; hopefully someone with credibility and clout will tell him to get it fixed.

Christ he’s useless. At least Corbyn seemed well intentioned as he blundered from one stupid gaffe to the next. If it’s not safe for Starmer to go to football matches then he should do what most of the rest of us do, and not go to football matches. Not taking gifts from dodgy donors who’ll want favours in return is hardly genius-level either. But to do all this while likely precipitating a worse winter hospital crisis by removing support to some of the most vulnerable to chronic hypothermia? He needs some better advisers than whatever ones he’s currently enriching. At least Johnson seemed cognisant of the fact he was pulling strokes and fooling (some of) the electorate. What a clown.

He needs some better advisers than whatever ones he’s currently enriching

He cut their pay. The advisors are getting less than when they were in opposition ?

^^ spad grumpy about their pay cut is one of the possible motives for Sue Grays salary getting leaked

I think the big strategic political decisions are made by Morgan McSweeney and to an extent also David Evans.

It would appear that Rachel Reeves makes all decisions which relate to the economy, including the winter fuel allowance.

Starmer’s relationship with Lord Alli will have been supervised McSweeney and Evans, Starmer won’t have developed a relationship with a major Labour donor without McSweeney’s involvement.

Morgan McSweeney is a absolute **** ^, ruthless power hungry creep

At least no one can claim that Starmer is a populist. I’ve never seen  PM try so hard to be unpopular. Not sure he understands this politics stuff. He thinks the job of PM is to be an effective manager of the country while the people who voted for him expect him to be making their lives easer. He’s actually failing at both.

Once again for the hard of understanding, populism is nothing to do with being popular, any more than it’s related to overpopulation, depopulation or popular music. The words share a common root of course but refer to rather different things.

Populism is a political ideology that pits the (innately good) population against the (evil) elites.

Yeah, i do mix them up a few times, whenever i put it down i mean popularity and more regarding opinion poll politicians.

It would appear that Rachel Reeves makes all decisions which relate to the economy, including the winter fuel allowance

Definitely. I heard Starmer doesn’t know much about economics – and was put on a quick course – so he’s put too much faith in Reeves who is basically dragging the heart of the Labour party to somewhere really dark with her stupidity.

Reeves will go first if this is kept up. I’m sure of it.

Perfectly captures the adolescent way the media/press communicates with the public. It’s insulting. It’s lazy. And, frankly, it reveals a total lack of understanding of government finance. pic.twitter.com/bsBv1r284a

— Stephanie Kelton (@StephanieKelton) September 21, 2024

I think the big strategic political decisions are made by Morgan McSweeney and to an extent also David Evans.

Jeezus, I need to keep more up to date with what is happening in the Labour Party, I had absolutely no idea until this evening that about a week ago David Evans had resigned as general secretary and been replaced. By a Morgan McSweeney protege obviously.

Although having said that it seems to have had little media coverage.

I have no idea why Evans resigned, no explanation has been given. I am a little suspicious as his resignation and replacement occurred just before Party Conference, normally you would expect the NEC to meet first and at least wait a few days for Conference.

Needless to say there was a shortlist of one, Morgan McSweeney’s choice, and obviously no election. I think it was Tony Blair who abolished the elections of General Secretaries. Well actually what Blair did when Conference elected a general secretary which he didn’t approve of he simply appointed his preferred choice without any election.  I think for a time there were two general secretaries, one elected and one appointed, although I am not entirely sure.

Anyway David Evans departure seems to have occurred with unusual haste, I wonder if it is in anyway connected with the apparent current internal battles occurring within Labour. Or maybe ii is  connected to the Anonyvoter rigging scandal which is the subject of a Metropolitan Police criminal investigation and which Evans is up to his neck in.

Labour unions pile on pressure over Anonyvoter scandal

Deleted – link seems to work now

Just pay for your own stuff.

So easy and would look a hell of a lot better than freeloading. I really don’t care so much about the rules on this one – it’s pure optics.

I think it’s as simple as that, Joe Public may use their uncles holiday home in Portugal but I doubt if unc is paying for their tickets to fly them there.

I’m just surprised over how quick they jumped into behaving like the tories did.

The WFA is just a staggeringly stupid political move and will just fuel their demise at the next election.

They got in on people not voting , reform have many years to polish their lies.

Bridget Phillipson is asked why Lord Alli gave her £14,000. She explains part of it was used to fund a birthday party for her 40th where she invited colleagues and journalists. #trevorphillips pic.twitter.com/UhTWimhkfE

— Saul Staniforth (@SaulStaniforth) September 22, 2024

Walking into a shit-storm every step of the way just before conference was mind blowingly stupid.

The dull and boring party of governance have no critical thinking that the press will have a field day over all this?

Anything they could do now will be overshadowed by this farcical freeloading circus.

Starmer has lost heaps of credibility over all this. Probably not to recover now.

The public and press always are ready to pounce on things they see as low level corruption or greed.  Stay away from it!

Remember the top earners always get away with it everyone else doesn’t.