Have noticed TH cleared trails seem to keep gaining more debris and the odd big ones across the trail. I’m not convinced it’s just weather. Also they go through randomly with the mulching machine with no real logic to it other than straight across an existing trail.

But we do have newly gravelled fireroads.

And yeah, Pots and LV are permanently closed. The former yeah there may be a way in but it was signposted out of bounds now the SANGS is open. This is not what the byelaw specifies. It’s supposed to be open when not in use, not closed because there’s a sanitised gravel path next door for the housing estate. These are public open spaces that were acquired by MOD for use on the understanding the public would still have access when not in use.

Pots is clearly intended to be permanently shut (they’ve said only open at xmas/new year, but I doubt even that). LV is promised to be open when not in use, and it’s definitely not in use 100% of the time, but it has been closed 100% of the time since the air show.

Write off Pots and LV basically, but don’t expect that’s it. They just need the money for more fences and the forthcoming review of the byelaws to remove public access from the majority of public access MOD lands. We have no real say in it, even if they let us say things, they just do what they want regardless, even against promises to our MPs.

p.s. there’s been issue already with Pots where they claim people have been cutting the fence, so they’re putting CCTV in to catch people. This is clearly not on and I hope MTBers aren’t involved.

A51 fenced off??

Yes, A51 fenced off. As I understand it, MOD weren’t happy with the enduro trails creeping onto MOD land, so they (MOD) put up a fence to mark the boundary.

I think in the long run we can basically say goodbye to any riding on MOD land locally – what will happen nationally I daren’t speculate..

But it seems clear the MOD want to kick the public off the training areas & then sell it on to developers. The strategy they are currently employing certainly seems to suggest this.

The MOD is broke & has land, there’s pressure to build more housing QED the MOD are going to sell off TA’s to developers, pocket the £ & there’ll be F all we can do about it!

It’s a really sad state of affairs.

Unfortunately someone at MOD has clocked that in order to stop public use of the land, all they need to do is put a fence round it and the existing byelaws already give them the authority to prevent use.

Subject to the provisions of these byelaws the public are permitted to use all parts of the military land not specially enclosed or the entry to which is not shown by notice as being prohibited or restricted…

TAG is fighting it and there were assurances provided by MPs and DIO (via responses to FOIA) that it wouldn’t be a 24/7 closure of the areas, but somewhat predicatably this doesn’t seem to be being kept to. TAG is monitoring the LV areas as often as we can to see if they actually ever open it.

The end game here is the byelaw review which DIO have confirmed is underway now. Broad timeline is that internal draft is due to be completed by April 2019 with the public consultation starting in June 2019. The byelaws will then come into effect in May 2020. The MTB community will obviously need to be organised in order to submit as many consultation responses as possible during the consultation period (a somewhat short 35 days).

So rather than A51 being fenced off, access to TH from A51 has a fence against it. But A51 is easily accessed from the road, isn’t it, so can you just get on there….. or does the MOD own that bit of land?

sell it on to developers.

A fair bit of the MOD land is classified as SPA (Special Protected Area) so the developers wouldn’t be interested (I hope!!)

A fair bit of the MOD land is classified as SPA (Special Protected Area) so the developers wouldn’t be interested (I hope!!)

In order to sell to developers they have to designate some of it as SANGS, which is a bit like accessible greenbelt and supposed to replace what’s being lost (the supposed access to the training areas). SPA’s and SSSI’s just make it easy to decide which bits are houses and which bits are parks.

theotherjonv
So rather than A51 being fenced off, access to TH from A51 has a fence against it. But A51 is easily accessed from the road, isn’t it, so can you just get on there….. or does the MOD own that bit of land?

Private land and owner MTB friendly (hence the events allowed there), but it’s still private and I believe only supposed to be used for race events.

Ewan
there were assurances provided by MPs and DIO (via responses to FOIA) that it wouldn’t be a 24/7 closure of the areas.

Out of interest, a comment was posted on a Deepcut FB group that they got this response from a FOI request in 2017, saying Deepcut was going to be fully closed all along. Was this not how they responded to you?…

Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your email.

Please find below the information you requested on the restrictions that will be in place;

Area Response

Deepcut (G2) No public access.
Eelmoor/Long Valley (B4) Public access permitted when training is not taking place. Access will be controlled by gates.

Kind Regards

Defence Infrastructure Organisation

Well, the trails are all still there, and you can still get in, just saying.

Out of interest, a comment was posted on a Deepcut FB group that they got this response from a FOI request in 2017, saying Deepcut was going to be fully closed all along. Was this not how they responded to you?…

A TAG member received a letter from Gavin Williamson (the sec state) via Michael Gove (the deepcut MP) saying the gates for G2 (Deepcut) would only be locked when the area is in training use.

(edit: we’re aware of the contradiction here – probably one of our FOI requests the person on the FB group is referencing)

Deepcut fence line was sometimes open but not now. I see this sign and always closed now 🙁

Can anyone point me in the direction of a map with the fences on it?

I was riding this area today for the first times in ages and most of my regular routes to get down to the canal are now impossible due to the miles of new fences!

There’s no access to the canal except via the road now, at least until the South SANGS is done where they’re supposed to connect to the canal. Regardless, all the training area is closed off.

Map here. 

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/tunnel-hill-porridge-mod/page/2/#post-9635157

Absolute mendacity from the MOD as to their long-term plans and ignoring the bylaws. Shamefully, local politicians aren’t interested either as its not a vote-winner.

I was over LV this week – no one in green within the fenced area, but loads on the other side of the road which was a bit ridiculous.  I suspect the over-riding criteria is environmental – the MOD simply don’t have the will/inclination/money to put in sustainable environmental measures – so simply on the basis that they get to mess the place up from time to time, do nothing to let it ‘recover’ and exclude the public at all times.

It is noticeable that now having forced dog-walkers to be restricted to only a few areas, the dog-poo bins are beyond overflowing which is hardly an incentive for them to clean up.