I picked up a lovely Indy Fab Ti Deluxe frame off the classifieds a while ago, some folk may remember it (from TheSwede, it featured on the 'Fanny Basher' thread 😆 ) Anyway, I've now gotten around to building it up, the plan being to (for now) run it as a rigid 69er with an alfine (yes, I do use these hubs a lot in my builds!!) rear end. In order to easily run the alfine, I've bought a Forward Components EBB.

So, I've gone to fit the EBB cups and have run into a problem… the drive side cup goes in fine, but the off-drive side only goes in around 2-3 turns and then no further 🙁 So it would appear the threads on this side are mucked up (though can't really tell visually!). I've checked with TheSwede and he's said that when he's removed BB's in the past (Raceface ones) he's noticed a little aluminum swarf from the BB thread, so this suggests the Ti is cutting a new thread as the BB is installed?

The trouble for me is that the cups on my new EBB are machined from 'high strength heat treated stainless steel', which I'm thinking is too tough for the Ti threads to recut. I've taken it into my LBS (Mosquito, who are an IF dealer) and they can't re-tap the threads apparently, because it's a Ti frame it needs a tool they don't have??

So, they've suggested sending the frame off to a UK based Ti frame builder to have the BB re-tapped and faced, they reckon it'd cost around £30-£50 inc postage or so to do this.

The other option, of course, is to get a 'little' more forceful on the BB shell… basically using brute force to screw the shell in… but will the Ti be able to cut into the stainless BB shell do you think? Or will it all end in tears and a jammed BB shell (or worse)?

Just wondering what the good folk of STW would do/suggest?

cheers 🙂

Pay the £40 and get it mended properly. A no-brainer.

as a proportion of frame value, Id go for the re-tap fix.

If it was a £250 Scandal, Id mash it in.

pretty much what I'm thinking… any suggestions on someone to do the job?

don't spoil a ship for a ha'porth of tar. As my dad would say.

psychle – Member
pretty much what I'm thinking… any suggestions on someone to do the job?

Kaesae….?

If it was a £250 Scandal, Id mash it in

The frame wasn't a huge amount more than this TBH, (it had a crack which had been repaired). Which is kind of why I'm on the fence… though of course, it is a very expensive frame new and is a lovely piece of metal work to boot 🙂

I'll go down the proper route… now just need to find someone to do the job. And Kaesae won't be on my list 😆

an update on this, picked the frame up from LBS this afternoon, the mechanic reckons I need to have the threads 'chased' (is that the right term?). they can't do it in their workshop as it needs a specific tool for a ti frame, is this right?

RIGHT! WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS PUT THE BB A COUPLE OF TURNS IN, GET A GREAT BIG HAMMER, SLEDGE WOULD BE BEST, YEAH? LIE THE FRAME FLAT ON SOME CONCRETE, TAKE A HUGE RUN UP AND **** THE BB AS HARD AS YOU CAN, WE WILL SEE HOW HARD THE SS IS! There, thats £25 pounds please.

oooh-kaay then… I take it I've upset somebody? 🙁

Err..not me! I was trying to sound really loud to go with the idea of taking anything blunt and heavy near an IF frame. 😳

ah… I see 🙂 'tis hard to pick up nuances on this 'ere forum 😉

I'd probably lube up the stainless EBB and 'sympathetically' wind it in. Wind it in a half turn then quarter out, then in a half turn etc – as if I were tapping a new thread. Wind it right out every now and again and have a look to see if anything's going awry.

shouldn't need "special" tools for a standard BS BB, but in Ti will eat through tooling – so they'd need sharpening sooner. We can do (as should most shops with a decent BB tap) , but would charge more for Ti, due to this wear.

Si

thing is, this shop stocks plenty of Ti loveliness… I'd have thought they'd be used to working with it, maybe there's something they're not telling me? 🙁

Shouldnt need special tools. Normal cutters are as hard as nails, but so is the Ti. Problem is the cutters arent cheap and as they cut the Ti the tool is embedded with Ti swarf which means the tool cannot then be used in an aluminium frame, only in a Ti one. Seeing as Ti frames are better manafactured than most they rarely need the BB tapping out, so the need for a special tool is not warranted by most LBS. Hope this makes things clearer.

update on this (for anyone interested 🙂 ) Been playing around with various combinations today, I can fit a HT II BB to the IF frame no worries (using a Park tool to give leverage, it's tight but goes in OK…) I can then take this BB off fine and re-instal into another frame (so would that suggest it's not cutting new threads??)

Also, when I install the stainless EBB into another frame it goes in fine, so I guess the threads on it are OK… but the non-drive side cup simply will not go in all the way into the Indy frame 🙁 I don't have a tool to exert leverage on it (like I can with the HT II BB) so have to rely on hand tightening… it's most annoying, I was hoping to have this built up by this weekend 🙁

Ah well, just got off the phone to Enigma, they can re-face/chase the BB for me for £25 (plus postage)… so it shall be done properly 🙂 fingers crossed they can sort it out easily enough!

do you have the same amount of thread / depth of cup on the EBB one as your HTII? I can't see logically why if you can get the HTII to go in fine, and the EBB one goes into another frame fine, why this particular combination doesn't work. It could I suppose by a micro tolerance issue, but are you sure you aren't running out of thread on the Indy before the EBB is fully seated?

What about fiddling your spacers, if that's possible and it's just a tiny bit off?

well, the thread on the EBB is the same depth as the HTII, it goes in fine on the drive side and the cups are the same depth for both sides. I think the HTII one goes in OK because I can get a decent amount of force on it with the Park tool, I can't do this with the EBB, plus I think the stainless would just be to tough to force in?

I noticed you mentioned that the last BB on the frame was a RaceFace one. Not sure if this is of use but from another forum…

saint VS atlas FR

if you look at comment #6 by Sandwich:

"The general consensus is that the atlas are plenty strong and pretty, but the BB mounting system is inferior and will wear out when reinstalled. In other words, set it and forget it- no problem, fiddle constantly or switch frame, buy new cranks."

Could this be the problem?

Any bike shop can chase the threads out – or at least should be able to. It's only metal, not rocket surgery.

Get on the phone to your nearest decent LBS and ask them. I reckon you'd be looking at about £20 tops.

Tim – its not doing it thats the problem, its what the Ti swarf does to the tool. The Ti gets embedded in the cutter and renders the tool useless to use in an alu frame. Most Ti doesnt need tapping out so you have a tool used for 1 job?

Cutters are £195 each retail (Park).

My LBS won't do it unfortunately (Mosquito, and they deal in Indy Fab, Merlin, Litespeed and all sorts of other boutique loveliness). If they won't do it then I doubt my local Evans or Cyclesurgery will either 🙁

I'm no expert but, given your comments above about thread depth etc all appearing to be the same I'd suggest dropping Indy Fabs a line and ask their thoughts?
Also, can't harm to ask other LBS' – costs nowt to ask, worst they can do is say 'no'…..?

Tim – its not doing it thats the problem, its what the Ti swarf does to the tool. The Ti gets embedded in the cutter and renders the tool useless to use in an alu frame. Most Ti doesnt need tapping out so you have a tool used for 1 job?

Cutters are £195 each retail (Park).

No it doesn't. Not if you know what you're doing. We're not talking about cutting a new thread here, just clearing an already formed one that has some damage of some sort. My guess is that the frame has had a few BB's in it and one of them has corroded and left a little of itself in there, someone has removed said BB cup and caused a tiny bit of damage to the threads. It'll be a doddle to fix and if you fancy sending it here I'll happily do it and return it for £30.

then why won't Mosquito do it?? 🙁 They're mechanic was completely not interested, I wonder why?

Maybe they're busy. Did you show him the frame?

I agree with Tim. We do a lot of tapping of holes in Ti and never have a problem. After all you are only chasing existing threads.

yep… left it with him for the day. As mentioned above, I wonder if there's something they're not telling me?

Can you take a decent close up of the offending threaded area? Mail it to me if you like.

Did you know you can get an internal thread file. If no one will do it then have a go yourself.

They look like this

Here's some pics of the shell, hopefully covering 360 degrees. I can't see a misaligned thread, can you? thanks for your help btw 🙂

Larger images here on Flickr

As tim said, chasing a thread is only cleaning out an existing thread… it takes away tiny spurs or lumps of the metal away to efectively clean the thread… they use a cutting fluid to ease this, it will not damage the tool…

My guess is that the shop does not have the park tool required, or that the mechanic in on that day was too busy or not confident enough to do it…

they would not hide other problems from you as they would rather show them and try to sell you another frame…

On another note, you say the frame was damaged and got a weld to fix it?

I know someone with a cracked weld on a ti frame and would love to know if it is fixable, the weld cracked is between the top and seat tube…

Psychle do you have access to some vernier calipiers? If you do measure the thread diameter on both sides to see if there is any difference. Threads have a working tolerence, maybe the EBB is close to the upper limit of the tolerance and the BB is at the lower end of the tolerence hence making it a tight fit. I would be looking at the EBB as Im sure that is a CNC cut thread and the BB with be cut by a die. If it is the BB then using a piece of emery paper you maybe able to take off the peak of the thread and that may allow it to fit.

where did the extra thread marks inside come from. It looks like you have forced something too long in there ?

fnarr

not sure where the extra marks are from, they were there when I got it… the cups of my BB are only 12mm deep (or so), same as a HTII.

what does fnarr mean?

how close are you to reading we will be able to chase thread for you

Back now (shot a PB at archery if you're interested). The threads all look fine, but it's more or less impossible to say for sure without feeling them. A tolerance mis-match as pointed out by Neil, could be all it is too. I'd be tempted to get a tap through the BB anyway though.