Trouble is, as Krakauer points out, if you’re drilled to value instructions over instincts, dis-empowered to act on your instincts, you stop listening to them

I agree, I think, personally that’s why high mountains should only be climbed, alpine style by those with the skill and experience to do so.

just because you can pay for someone to drag you up a mountain does not make you a climber or a mountaineer. This is particularly evident when guide companies push their luck as they need results to get new customers and if something happens to the guide the punters don’t have the skills to help themselves or anyone else.

Kinda draws you in eh?

I agree, I think, personally that’s why high mountains should only be climbed, alpine style by those with the skill and experience to do so.

just because you can pay for someone to drag you up a mountain does not make you a climber or a mountaineer. This is particularly evident when guide companies push their luck as they need results to get new customers and if something happens to the guide the punters don’t have the skills to help themselves or anyone else.

Totally agree. Been on guided trips before and don’t like the detachment. They’ve been good, but the sense of involvement in the environment and the sense of fulfillment from the experience is dulled massively.

I remain agog at Reinhold Messner’s 1980 solo alpine ascent from the Tibetan side. And Jacob Kropp’s cycle with all his kit from his home in Sweden, to the top and back, solo. Amazing.

Edit: Goran Kropp

I think that was one of the main criticisms leveled at him by Krakauer i.e. why take additional unnecessary risk when you are responsible for the wellbeing of others.

It was.

In Boukreev’s book he explained why he considered him not using it to be more prudent.

What,he rode to the top 😀

I reckon Mallory went for the couloir route (aka Messner’s route up the Norton Couloir). The whole second step thing is a red herring.

What,he rode to the top

Goran Kropp was proper hard!

Imagine riding your bike 7,000 miles to Nepal, carrying a year’s supply of gear and food. Next, think about carrying 143 pounds, unassisted, up to Everest Base Camp. Now picture yourself climbing the world’s tallest mountain alone, completely self contained, without the help of Sherpas and without bottled oxygen. Sound impossible? It isn’t. In May of 1996, a Swedish mountaineer named Göran Kropp accomplished just that. Then he packed his gear and biked back home.

I agree, I think, personally that’s why high mountains should only be climbed, alpine style by those with the skill and experience to do so.

just because you can pay for someone to drag you up a mountain does not make you a climber or a mountaineer. This is particularly evident when guide companies push their luck as they need results to get new customers and if something happens to the guide the punters don’t have the skills to help themselves or anyone else.

I somewhat agree, but I don’t think commercial expeds are inherently shonky. It’s not been mentioned yet, but last week Russell Brice pulled the plug for the entire season before anyone had even left base camp – his sherpas were scared due to how warm it was and had already had some close calls in the ice fall. No refunds, and I don’t think anyone can fairly level a bad word at him for it.

What tyres…

Next time you are on Everest in those circumstances i will email you this thread, you have no idea, you really dont.

Whatever.

That is amazing, respect!

Misplaced post. Should have gone in some way above. Timed out of relevance!

In 1996 Rob Hall stayed to help (client) Doug Hansen and died up there with him. Andy Harris who went up to assist them also died, probably falling off the Lhotse face.

Perhaps. Although if you believe the “facts” that Graham Ratcliffe presents, then Hall was happy to risk the lives of others for the benefit of himself and his clients.

I’m not taking any side here, just highlighting what might be another indication of where commerical exploitation of Everest has landed those who wish to climb it.

I suspect that the commercial climbing companies have cleaned up their act a bit since the events refferd to in 1996.

David Sharp, 2006?

Fair enough TGA
Certainly sounds a bad story.

One of the issues might be that if you are well equipped you would spend all your time helping others and not be able to make a summit attempt yourself.
Its not good tho is it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-451798/Everest-climber-returns-mountain-bury-woman-forced-abandon-9-years-ago.html

Everest is a perfect example of why Royal Marines are nails. 7,800 metre rescue….

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/may/23/everest.nepal

nedrapier – Member

clowns like john krakauer.

have you read the book?

Posted 17 hours ago # Report-Post

I have read his books,Krakauer seems to overlook the fact that HIS clients not Boukreev’s died.There is also, in the context of his much vaulted early off the top philosophy the following;

On his way down Everest, Krakauer found an ill Beck Weathers on the mountain, before the storm and before Weathers was frostbitten.[6] Weathers, who suffered frostbite and several amputations, has said, “I told Jon that I really couldn’t see very well and that I needed to descend, and might need him to downclimb close enough to be my eyes.”[7] Weathers said Krakauer responded “Beck, I’m not a guide.”[8]

A mate summited Everest in 2007 with a British Army climbing team – he was an SF reservist at the time.

Fair play to him, I’d have struggled to get to base camp!

Went to see a talk given by Conan Harrod in Manchester a few years ago.

Broke his leg 250m from the summit, helped down by fellow clmbers.
A very lucky man – worth booking for an after dinner talk if you want to hear a very remarkable story.

Details of the rescue and accident here:

Linky.

Some pics:

The links you guys posted about the Royal Marine rescue and Conan Harrod are in relation to the same event 🙂

Pretty heartwarming stuff.

Those rescue reports are a shining beacon of awesomeness.

Gotta love the chipper military attitude.

In 1996 Boukreev also stepped over Beck and left him for dead; leaving Neal Beidleman to bring him down with Mike Groom and Yasuko Namba – along with the rest of his group. If Boukreev had stopped to help maybe they would have made faster progress and got to camp before dark. Instead they spent the night 300 yards away after failing to locate the camp and Namba died and Beck was (for the second time) left for dead.

Boukreev heroically made 2 successful rescue trips the next day, but too late for Namba and, so it was thought, Beck. Beck later walking into the camp on his own… where he was AGAIN left for dead, this time in a tent. Poor old Beck!!

Its what happens when things go wrong in places like that, decisions are made quickly and under very intense physical and psychological stress. Some times you save people some times you dont. Blaming anyone for what they did once the crisis unfolded is just plain wrong.

I read all the books i could find when i came back from trekking in Nepal. I wasn’t on a base camp trip. The book i really enjoyed which covered the same time period was by Tenzing Norgay

Then he packed his gear and biked back home.

He only cycled some of the way back. Looser

allmountainventure – Member

I wasn’t blaming him for decisions he made during the crisis,remember he kb’ed Beck before the crisis;That seems very callous to me, experienced;early in the afternoon,weather still fine. I was highlighting his actions to show contrast with what he writes about himself and other people and his own actions. I also think he had an axe to grind with Boukreev,and took the chance to do so.
I will never be in that situation thankfully so won’t ever have to weigh up the pros and cons of aiding another climber. However if I had been,I wouldn’t come down and then write about it in the manner he did.I mostly enjoyed his books, reading other people’s accounts diminished my enjoyment of them a little.

where he was AGAIN left for dead, this time in a tent. Poor old Beck!!

I’ve read Beck Weathers’ book which is called…wait for it….’Left for Dead’.

Boukreev’s book is a bit more of a read though despite the rather obsessive theme of disputing Krakauer’s version of events.

Surely its meant to be difficult, otherwise whats the point? The whole “I’ve climbed Everest” thing doesn’t work if theres a Cafe on top and a rescue team having a fag up the South Col just waiting for a chance to flex their toned and bronzed muscles. That being the case deaths and casualties are part and parcel of the deal aren’t they?

Incidentally, Edmund Hilarys trip was an commercial expedition, as they pretty much all are, (perhaps with the exception of Goran Kropp’s bike assisted mullarkey).

In 1996 Boukreev also stepped over Beck and left him for dead

No, Weathers was (more or less) healthy at the time Boukreev made his descent. He had been told to stay put by Rob Hall and (in his own words) “that’s exactly what I did.”

Boukreev was a paid guide from a DIFFERENT expedition.

There was a picture and a short article in the Metro today about a 19yr old British girl who’d summitted very recently, she described walking past people dying, people who were so far gone they didn’t even know there was anyone else there.

Nothing that could be done – do you stop and help someone who probably isn’t going to survive and in doing so put your own life in danger or do you just walk past?

Sounded pretty horrific either way.